Dating Charatan?
- Thread starter dPero
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Pre Lane is not pre lane. Lane markings were on Reuben era pipes. This one is Reuben era though.
The flored L stamp was on pipes meant for export .
Not on the ones meant for domestic distribution.
Nice blast, notice the rusticated shank.
Fifties or early sixties.
Not on the ones meant for domestic distribution.
Nice blast, notice the rusticated shank.
Fifties or early sixties.
“Dating Charatan ?”
Will a bunch of flowers, a box of chocolates and a dinner date do it ?
Will a bunch of flowers, a box of chocolates and a dinner date do it ?
It doesn't look like a free hand to me, just a sandblasted pipe. Free hands didn't get their start until 1959.
i don't think it is Reuben era, it should be much younger..and the shape number (11) exist but it is a smooth, not sandblasted : from 1951 catalog :
most likely dunhill era.
most likely dunhill era.
It is not a FH, just a quite common bent shape 11. Same shapes could be both smooth and sandblasted.i don't think it is Reuben era, it should be much younger..and the shape number (11) exist but it is a smooth, not sandblasted : from 1951 catalog :
View attachment 307461
most likely dunhill era.
View attachment 307459
I own a few with the similar kind of blast, according to Barry Jones it was a typical blast from the fifties.
Rather deep and craggy, in particular on the birdseyes.
Please help me to check year of my pipe. It's pretty small pipe (same as group 2 Dunhill): 177mm x 48mm (outside diameter) and 18mm x 44mm (inside diameter).
I follow the guide of Pipedia Dating of Charatans - Pipedia - https://pipedia.org/wiki/Dating_of_Charatans and I could belive it belongs Frederick's era.
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Identification of a first era pipe (Frederick's era, 1863-1910)
I immediately point out that pipes of this era are very rare and it is very unlikely to come across a pipe from this time.
Moreover these pipes are indiscernible from those of the second era, the only clue is that pipes of this era are, in 99% of the cases, are quite small in size.
1) Pipes are no larger than a Dunhill group 1 or max group 2
2) Saddle or tapered mouthpiece
3) No double comfort stems
4) The CP logo is engraved so that the C enters the P (not always present)
5) Absence of £ on the pipe shank
6) Absence of the letter X on the pipe shape code engraved on the shank (for ex. 2502 and not 2502X)
7) Absence of letters DC after the shape number (for ex. 2502 and not 2505DC)
8) Absence of the engraving “MADE BY HAND” on the shank
9) Presence of the writing “CHARATAN'S MAKE LONDON ENGLAND” on 2 lines
10) The CP logo is finer than in following eras
11) The stems are usually made by different material than ebonite (mostly amber, if they have not been replaced)
I follow the guide of Pipedia Dating of Charatans - Pipedia - https://pipedia.org/wiki/Dating_of_Charatans and I could belive it belongs Frederick's era.
============
Identification of a first era pipe (Frederick's era, 1863-1910)
I immediately point out that pipes of this era are very rare and it is very unlikely to come across a pipe from this time.
Moreover these pipes are indiscernible from those of the second era, the only clue is that pipes of this era are, in 99% of the cases, are quite small in size.
1) Pipes are no larger than a Dunhill group 1 or max group 2
2) Saddle or tapered mouthpiece
3) No double comfort stems
4) The CP logo is engraved so that the C enters the P (not always present)
5) Absence of £ on the pipe shank
6) Absence of the letter X on the pipe shape code engraved on the shank (for ex. 2502 and not 2502X)
7) Absence of letters DC after the shape number (for ex. 2502 and not 2505DC)
8) Absence of the engraving “MADE BY HAND” on the shank
9) Presence of the writing “CHARATAN'S MAKE LONDON ENGLAND” on 2 lines
10) The CP logo is finer than in following eras
11) The stems are usually made by different material than ebonite (mostly amber, if they have not been replaced)
Well, it has “special” written on it, so I guess Reuben era, which covers a lot of ground.
It’s a lovely old pipe.
Maybe @jguss would have some useful information?
It’s a lovely old pipe.
Maybe @jguss would have some useful information?
I don’t have much to add; it’s yet another reason (if we needed one) to lament the loss of Ken Barnes.
I know the Special grade existed by 1949, and perhaps earlier. My personal guess is it emerged after the industry lurched back to life in the wake of reconversion following WW2. The model owned by the OP is called the Artist and was one among many shown in the 1951 and several subsequent catalogs:
It definitely feels like a Reuben era pipe to me and I agree 1950s is a good guess. Certainly it looks pre-Lane if we define that to mean the period before Herman bought Charatan from Reuben’s widow Esther after her husband died in 1962.
I know the Special grade existed by 1949, and perhaps earlier. My personal guess is it emerged after the industry lurched back to life in the wake of reconversion following WW2. The model owned by the OP is called the Artist and was one among many shown in the 1951 and several subsequent catalogs:
It definitely feels like a Reuben era pipe to me and I agree 1950s is a good guess. Certainly it looks pre-Lane if we define that to mean the period before Herman bought Charatan from Reuben’s widow Esther after her husband died in 1962.
I agree it’s a bit odd but like a bloody car wreck you can’t look away. And honestly the more I look the more I like it (the pipe, not fatal automobile accidents).
I do agree with your thoughts regarding the stem curvature.
Thankfully my Shape 56 has a more gentle curve, whereas the 2nd (no shape number) has a straight stem (note the differently shaped foot)
