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georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
4,104
7,185
Information is the I Must Be In Charge! personality type's greatest weapon.

Always has been, always will be.

How it is gathered makes no difference, only that it is.

For all of Human history until a hundred or so years ago, when people had had enough of the I Must Be In Charge-ers, they got in a boat and sailed over the horizon, or threw their belongings in a wagon and went west.

Today, there's nowhere left to go that's free of them.

In fact, now... they are coming to you.
 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
4,104
7,185
Since the Dawn of Man individuals have existed who are relentlessly driven to achieve large scale power and control over others.

Since that goal couldn't be accomplished alone, their approach to obtaining support and assistance has always been to appeal to one of the two basic types of humans: 1) Objectivists who have a Darwinian view of Man's place in the world and think the exploitation of lower ability individuals by those with higher ability is natural; and 2) Emotion-based decision makers who think Man's intelligence should be able to create a society where an equal outcome for all is assured regardless of ability.

It was the well that never ran dry: Virtually everyone felt strongly one way or the other; virtually everyone thought their opposite number was flatly wrong; and the dispute could never be settled.

In recent times the first type have been called Capitalists, and the second type Socialists.

Because the perfect society imagined by each group runs counter to human nature, however--Capitalism because it is devoid of empathy and compassion, and Socialism because it requires unrealistic rules regarding "correct" thought and behavior--motivating the groups is easy: To appeal to one group, all an aspiring power seeker need do is generate outrage at the unfixable flaw of the other group.

The best outrage generators become society's leaders.

Both achieving that power and maintaining it requires targeting specific individuals within the opposition.

Targeting rivals requires one thing above all else: Information

It is no longer necessary to have the support and help of people--an ideologically-driven group--a "party"--to collect that information, though. No need for spies, secret police, embedded informers, and so forth. Today, those in charge can go straight to the endgame: Digital records.

In fact, controlling ANYONE, opponent or not, no longer requires fear, coercion, or even notification. All it takes is freezing/confiscating their bank account.

Today, it is entirely possible to know with complete accuracy what a given individual ate for breakfast, how much he spent for it, where it was purchased, the bank where the funds were kept, how much of a given product is in his refrigerator, when it will spoil, how many hours he spent at work, where he stopped on the way there, where he stopped on the way back, how fast he drove, how much he paid for the car, how many accident claims it has been involved in, whether or not traffic laws were broken, the brand of soap he showered with before going to work, who his friends are, who he has communicated with, his political preferences, his political affiliations, his state of physical health, his hobbies, the music he prefers, and on and on and on... The deeper one dives the more connections can be found and inferences that can be made and investigated, effectively without limit, endlessly branching like the Mandelbrot set.

And the pool of stockpiled information grows both wider and deeper every day. Literally every second of every day.

The remarkable part is that most of the information wasn't extracted by force or supplied in response to an overt request. Most of the time, either knowingly or unknowingly (the "terms of service" user agreement), it was given freely by the individual himself. Often eagerly. Mother Nature made short term benefit a powerful motivator.

As the founder of Facebook famously said in 2003:

Zuck: Yeah so if you ever need info about anyone at Harvard
Zuck: Just ask
Zuck: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SSNs
[Redacted Friend's Name]: What? How'd you manage that one?
Zuck: People just submitted it.
Zuck: I don't know why.
Zuck: They "trust me"
Zuck: Dumb fucks

In short, the masses the aspiring rulers want to control are indirectly demanding to BE controlled. It's an act of simultaneous acquiescence and bestowal. No invading armies, no shots fired. There is no longer any need to inspire and recruit followers from the Left/Right well that never runs dry.

It will soon be obvious to everyone that those who were relentlessly driven to achieve large scale power and control over others never did care about a particular vision of society, and that their "visions" were just a recruiting tool. A way to gather crowds who would chant their name. All they ever cared about, and all they ever will care about, is being in charge.

Having the ability to freeze or confiscate a selected citizen's bank account will be breathtakingly efficient. And anyone who objects or assists those who were targeted will themselves be cut off.

When the social-score/credit model of society is fully implemented, voicing awareness or concern about any of this---never mind criticizing it---will be suppressed by whatever means necessary, until one day the very idea that something's badly wrong will be impossible to conceptualize, never mind articulate.
 

woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
9,861
7,404
SE PA USA
Since the Dawn of Man individuals have existed who are relentlessly driven to achieve large scale power and control over others.

Since that goal couldn't be accomplished alone, their approach to obtaining support and assistance has always been to appeal to one of the two basic types of humans: 1) Objectivists who have a Darwinian view of Man's place in the world and think the exploitation of lower ability individuals by those with higher ability is natural; and 2) Emotion-based decision makers who think Man's intelligence should be able to create a society where an equal outcome for all is assured regardless of ability.

It was the well that never ran dry: Virtually everyone felt strongly one way or the other; virtually everyone thought their opposite number was flatly wrong; and the dispute could never be settled.

In recent times the first type have been called Capitalists, and the second type Socialists.

Because the perfect society imagined by each group runs counter to human nature, however--Capitalism because it is devoid of empathy and compassion, and Socialism because it requires unrealistic rules regarding "correct" thought and behavior--motivating the groups is easy: To appeal to one group, all an aspiring power seeker need do is generate outrage at the unfixable flaw of the other group.

The best outrage generators become society's leaders.

Both achieving that power and maintaining it requires targeting specific individuals within the opposition.

Targeting rivals requires one thing above all else: Information

It is no longer necessary to have the support and help of people--an ideologically-driven group--a "party"--to collect that information, though. No need for spies, secret police, embedded informers, and so forth. Today, those in charge can go straight to the endgame: Digital records.

In fact, controlling ANYONE, opponent or not, no longer requires fear, coercion, or even notification. All it takes is freezing/confiscating their bank account.

Today, it is entirely possible to know with complete accuracy what a given individual ate for breakfast, how much he spent for it, where it was purchased, the bank where the funds were kept, how much of a given product is in his refrigerator, when it will spoil, how many hours he spent at work, where he stopped on the way there, where he stopped on the way back, how fast he drove, how much he paid for the car, how many accident claims it has been involved in, whether or not traffic laws were broken, the brand of soap he showered with before going to work, who his friends are, who he has communicated with, his political preferences, his political affiliations, his state of physical health, his hobbies, the music he prefers, and on and on and on... The deeper one dives the more connections can be found and inferences that can be made and investigated, effectively without limit, endlessly branching like the Mandelbrot set.

And the pool of stockpiled information grows both wider and deeper every day. Literally every second of every day.

The remarkable part is that most of the information wasn't extracted by force or supplied in response to an overt request. Most of the time, either knowingly or unknowingly (the "terms of service" user agreement), it was given freely by the individual himself. Often eagerly. Mother Nature made short term benefit a powerful motivator.

As the founder of Facebook famously said in 2003:

Zuck: Yeah so if you ever need info about anyone at Harvard
Zuck: Just ask
Zuck: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SSNs
[Redacted Friend's Name]: What? How'd you manage that one?
Zuck: People just submitted it.
Zuck: I don't know why.
Zuck: They "trust me"
Zuck: Dumb fucks

In short, the masses the aspiring rulers want to control are indirectly demanding to BE controlled. It's an act of simultaneous acquiescence and bestowal. No invading armies, no shots fired. There is no longer any need to inspire and recruit followers from the Left/Right well that never runs dry.

It will soon be obvious to everyone that those who were relentlessly driven to achieve large scale power and control over others never did care about a particular vision of society, and that their "visions" were just a recruiting tool. A way to gather crowds who would chant their name. All they ever cared about, and all they ever will care about, is being in charge.

Having the ability to freeze or confiscate a selected citizen's bank account will be breathtakingly efficient. And anyone who objects or assists those who were targeted will themselves be cut off.

When the social-score/credit model of society is fully implemented, voicing awareness or concern about any of this---never mind criticizing it---will be suppressed by whatever means necessary, until one day the very idea that something's badly wrong will be impossible to conceptualize, never mind articulate.
No wonder you’ve never joined in with Secret Santa!
 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
39,460
52,343
Presumably the U.S. State Department is monitoring this and has protocols to remove foreign citizens operating outside diplomatic guidelines. A few years ago, a Turkish security detail beat up a bunch of Turkish protestors at the Turkish embassy, or in the area in D.C. The U.S. didn't do anything publicly, but neither did the Turkish security detail show up again, anywhere.
 

woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
9,861
7,404
SE PA USA
Presumably the U.S. State Department is monitoring this and has protocols to remove foreign citizens operating outside diplomatic guidelines. A few years ago, a Turkish security detail beat up a bunch of Turkish protestors at the Turkish embassy, or in the area in D.C. The U.S. didn't do anything publicly, but neither did the Turkish security detail show up again, anywhere.
I think you may be simplifying matters. They may, or may not be monitored. Whether thay get the boot is more of a tangled web, with that decision being made very far up the US food chain.
 

bullet08

Lifer
Nov 26, 2018
6,789
30,913
RTP, NC. USA
Presumably the U.S. State Department is monitoring this and has protocols to remove foreign citizens operating outside diplomatic guidelines. A few years ago, a Turkish security detail beat up a bunch of Turkish protestors at the Turkish embassy, or in the area in D.C. The U.S. didn't do anything publicly, but neither did the Turkish security detail show up again, anywhere.
Little different situation. They were Turkish President's "bodyguards" (thugs). When threaten, or if they believe there's a "clear and present danger" (old ladies and moms with strollers) they will clear the perceived threat. Hopefully, our Secret Service would do the same.

China on the other hand (while taking our oil reserve set aside for our need) is stationing their police within our border (which we don't have anymore) for their convenience.

Of course, I could be mistaken.
 

Piping Rooster

Can't Leave
Jun 29, 2022
361
1,834
Champa Bay
Presumably the U.S. State Department is monitoring this and has protocols to remove foreign citizens operating outside diplomatic guidelines. A few years ago, a Turkish security detail beat up a bunch of Turkish protestors at the Turkish embassy, or in the area in D.C. The U.S. didn't do anything publicly, but neither did the Turkish security detail show up again, anywhere.
Our top General is on it!5jst6g.jpg
 
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