C&D tins bulging

[sablebrush52]

10 tins out of how many 1000’s they crank out in a day doesn’t equate to a major issue.

Then there’s the matter of how the product stored or handled once it’s in the hands of the individual.

If C&D had such an issue with mold as some people tend to make out, it’s a wonder they been able to remain in business.

And just about every case I’ve heard of C&D will replace a moldy tin if brought to their attention.

I would imagine that the presence of mold spores on tobacco is probably the same as traces of cocaine on paper banknotes. It’s a matter of storage conditions that determine whether the mold germinates and begins to grow.

if it's that many for one customer, it's likely a higher number in those thousands. And leave us not forget C&D's inaugural Carolina Red Flake run of 2016, when they had to recall the entire shipment for mold contamination. It's to C&D's credit that they took ownership of their screw up, unlike pretending it didn't exist.
Most of the defences for C&D in this thread come down to the "a little bit pregnant" defense. It's not a defense.

 

[craig61a]

if it's that many for one customer, it's likely a higher number in those thousands. And leave us not forget C&D's inaugural Carolina Red Flake run of 2016, when they had to recall the entire shipment for mold contamination. It's to C&D's credit that they took ownership of their screw up, unlike pretending it didn't exist.
Most of the defences for C&D in this thread come down to the "a little bit pregnant" defense. It's not a defense.

Did those tins sit in the back of a truck in the heat for a matter of days…? Did that promote the growth of any mold spores?

As I mentioned, I got 10 tins of 2016 CRF, and none of them had mold. And while there were supposedly some tins that did have mold, there were a number of people on this forum and others that reported that they did not experience mold contamination.

Here’s the notice that they sent out when this happened:

Hello all,

In regards to the handful of instances that have been reported of mold spores affecting tins of Carolina Red Flake, we're highly disappointed and extremely embarrassed. We're distressed because, on the one hand, given some of the advancements we've made in the workshop over the last few months, we really and truly believed moldy tobacco was part of C&D's past. And on the other hand, more importantly, it disturbs us to the core that we could make and sell anything that's not up to our standard. . All of our fans, all of our customers, have every right to be upset about this. And we're going to do what we can to make it right. We're looking into how limited this mold spore problem is surrounding Carolina Red Flake. But honestly, we're not likely to ever know just how many tins might actually be defective out there.

Subsequently, we're addressing the issue at C&D. It's early still, and so we're not 100% sure yet what this process looks like going forward, but obviously our anti-fungal treatment methodology needs adjustmentand we'll do just that, without compromising our commitment to produce a quality pipe tobacco that's as natural and additive-free as we can afford to make it.

But what can we do for you to try to make this right, now?

If you've got a tin or tins of Carolina Red Flake that you don't want, if it has (or they have) got mold in it, or you're concerned there might be mold in it/them, or if you just don't want the tin(s) anymore for any reason, contact Laudisi Distribution Group (sales@laudisi.com, 843-491-4150) and we'll pay to have the tin(s) sent back to us, and we'll give you your money back or, if you'd prefer, give you replacement tin(s) of some other pipe tobacco blend we make.

I can't even begin to tell you how sorry we are, how sorry I am, that this has happened. We've worked so hard over the last few months to strengthen our products all the way through the production chainevidently we still have work to do.

I hope you'll give us the opportunity to work with you all to correct this mistake. Likewise, I hope that you'll continue to support C&D in the future. It's always been our mission to make quality, natural pipe tobacco that people love. We set high expectations of ourselves and so we'll be the first to own up to our blunders. And this is a blunder, make no mistake. Yes, mold in pipe tobacco can happen, but that's not a good enough excuse. It's not good enough for C&D and it's not good enough for you, our customers.
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Reeves

So, by issuing a “recall” if that’s what some chose to call it, they are not acknowledging that the whole production run was bad. There was a possible issue that needed to be addressed, I.e. their anti-fungal treatment. And anybody that had a concern could contact them for resolution.

Mold spores are widespread. They don’t necessarily target Cornell & Diehl exclusively.

I’ve read of people having mold in Mac Baren, Sutliff, Gawith, etc. It happens. And this issue occurred 6 years ago, yet some people have yet to get over it…

 

[renfield]

I had 10 tins of 2016 CRF, and none of them had mold. As I recall, there were a very few tins that supposedly had mold, and out of an abundance of caution all 2400 tins were recalled.

I had 10 tins of the 2016. When the mold started getting reported I opened my tins to avoid a nasty surprise later. 8 of my 10 tins already had copious mold only a month after the stuff shipped.

I also had a bunch of Bijou and another C&D blend from around the same time where I had multiple tins that were already moldy when opened.

I recall the frequency of CRF mold as greater than “very few” but it’s a moot point now. C&D / SP took care of it promptly, no hassles. Stuff happens, even to the best.

I’ve not had a problem with any moldy C&D since and don’t expect I will. They figured things out and it’s all good.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Did those tins sit in the back of a truck in the heat for a matter of days…?

All shipped tobacco is exposed to the elements, heat as well as freezing cold. No climate controlled environment for them while awaiting them to arrive

 

[sablebrush52]

Did those tins sit in the back of a truck in the heat for a matter of days…? Did that promote the growth of any mold spores?

As I mentioned, I got 10 tins of 2016 CRF, and none of them had mold. And while there were supposedly some tins that did have mold, there were a number of people on this forum and others that reported that they did not experience mold contamination.

Here’s the notice that they sent out when this happened:

Hello all,

In regards to the handful of instances that have been reported of mold spores affecting tins of Carolina Red Flake, we're highly disappointed and extremely embarrassed. We're distressed because, on the one hand, given some of the advancements we've made in the workshop over the last few months, we really and truly believed moldy tobacco was part of C&D's past. And on the other hand, more importantly, it disturbs us to the core that we could make and sell anything that's not up to our standard. . All of our fans, all of our customers, have every right to be upset about this. And we're going to do what we can to make it right. We're looking into how limited this mold spore problem is surrounding Carolina Red Flake. But honestly, we're not likely to ever know just how many tins might actually be defective out there.

Subsequently, we're addressing the issue at C&D. It's early still, and so we're not 100% sure yet what this process looks like going forward, but obviously our anti-fungal treatment methodology needs adjustmentand we'll do just that, without compromising our commitment to produce a quality pipe tobacco that's as natural and additive-free as we can afford to make it.

But what can we do for you to try to make this right, now?

If you've got a tin or tins of Carolina Red Flake that you don't want, if it has (or they have) got mold in it, or you're concerned there might be mold in it/them, or if you just don't want the tin(s) anymore for any reason, contact Laudisi Distribution Group (sales@laudisi.com, 843-491-4150) and we'll pay to have the tin(s) sent back to us, and we'll give you your money back or, if you'd prefer, give you replacement tin(s) of some other pipe tobacco blend we make.

I can't even begin to tell you how sorry we are, how sorry I am, that this has happened. We've worked so hard over the last few months to strengthen our products all the way through the production chainevidently we still have work to do.

I hope you'll give us the opportunity to work with you all to correct this mistake. Likewise, I hope that you'll continue to support C&D in the future. It's always been our mission to make quality, natural pipe tobacco that people love. We set high expectations of ourselves and so we'll be the first to own up to our blunders. And this is a blunder, make no mistake. Yes, mold in pipe tobacco can happen, but that's not a good enough excuse. It's not good enough for C&D and it's not good enough for you, our customers.
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Reeves

So, by issuing a “recall” if that’s what some chose to call it, they are not acknowledging that the whole production run was bad. There was a possible issue that needed to be addressed, I.e. their anti-fungal treatment. And anybody that had a concern could contact them for resolution.

Mold spores are widespread. They don’t necessarily target Cornell & Diehl exclusively.

I’ve read of people having mold in Mac Baren, Sutliff, Gawith, etc. It happens. And this issue occurred 6 years ago, yet some people have yet to get over it…

At that time, I looked at other forums to see if others were reporting mold in their orders and several people started listing the tinning dates to see if it was possibly localized to a single days output. It wasn't. Tins were showing up from different days with mold. There being no way to tell how widespread the contamination was, C&D went ahead with a recall. Just because a tin didn't show mold doesn't mean it wasn't infected with it.
The tin I had opened looked fine. But after @JimInks spoke with a friend of his who's an expert on molds we agreed the smart thing to do was to return the tins. Tobacco molds are highly toxic.

 

[JimInks]

At that time, I looked at other forums to see if others were reporting mold in their orders and several people started listing the tinning dates to see if it was possibly localized to a single days output. It wasn't. Tins were showing up from different days with mold. There being no way to tell how widespread the contamination was, C&D went ahead with a recall. Just because a tin didn't show mold doesn't mean it wasn't infected with it.
The tin I had opened looked fine. But after @JimInks spoke with a friend of his who's an expert on molds we agreed the smart thing to do was to return the tins. Tobacco molds are highly toxic.

Let me repeat what you wrote: "Just because a tin didn't show mold doesn't mean it wasn't infected with it."

I spoke with a genetic botanist with almost forty years of experience about the mold in the C&D 2016 tins. She said even if a small fraction of the run has mold, then the entire run has mold, and whether you see it or not, it will eventually show itself. Mold doesn't pick and choose which tins they'll quickly show up in if it's in the tobacco. You can't cut off the moldly parts and think the rest is good, either, unless you want to risk the chance of death. Smoking anything with mold on with can collapse and/or destroy lung function, and spread throughout your body. The best that can happen is that you'll get very sick with possible long term health problems. The worst scenario is death. Mold can stay visually dormant for a long time. Anybody who thinks otherwise is working on a foolish premise.

 

[jon11]

Let me repeat what you wrote: "Just because a tin didn't show mold doesn't mean it wasn't infected with it."

I spoke with a genetic botanist with almost forty years of experience about the mold in the C&D 2016 tins. She said even if a small fraction of the run has mold, then the entire run has mold, and whether you see it or not, it will eventually show itself. Mold doesn't pick and choose which tins they'll quickly show up in if it's in the tobacco. You can't cut off the moldly parts and think the rest is good, either, unless you want to risk the chance of death. Smoking anything with mold on with can collapse and/or destroy lung function, and spread throughout your body. The best that can happen is that you'll get very sick with possible long term health problems. The worst scenario is death. Mold can stay visually dormant for a long time. Anybody who thinks otherwise is working on a foolish premise.

Jim my only argument with this statement is when you state the best that can happen is you will get very sick with possible long term health problems. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen mold on cigars and the shops or customers just wipe them off before they smoke them. I’ve done this with many Cuban Cigars as well as many friends that I know with absolutely no I’ll effects to anyone. I’m not condoning smoking anything with mold on it but I’ve never seen anyone suffer ill effects from it.

 

[JimInks]

Jim my only argument with this statement is when you state the best that can happen is you will get very sick with possible long term health problems. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen mold on cigars and the shops or customers just wipe them off before they smoke them. I’ve done this with many Cuban Cigars as well as many friends that I know with absolutely no I’ll effects to anyone. I’m not condoning smoking anything with mold on it but I’ve never seen anyone suffer ill effects from it.

All of you were lucky in my opinion, and some of that may have been plume. My friend whom I mentioned gave her opinion from direct analysis, so I'll go with what she said. It's not worth the risk even if you can wipe mold off a cigar. I'm not a scientist, but I wouldn't smoke anything with mold.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Let me repeat what you wrote: "Just because a tin didn't show mold doesn't mean it wasn't infected with it."

I spoke with a genetic botanist with almost forty years of experience about the mold in the C&D 2016 tins. She said even if a small fraction of the run has mold, then the entire run has mold, and whether you see it or not, it will eventually show itself. Mold doesn't pick and choose which tins they'll quickly show up in if it's in the tobacco. You can't cut off the moldly parts and think the rest is good, either, unless you want to risk the chance of death. Smoking anything with mold on with can collapse and/or destroy lung function, and spread throughout your body. The best that can happen is that you'll get very sick with possible long term health problems. The worst scenario is death. Mold can stay visually dormant for a long time. Anybody who thinks otherwise is working on a foolish premise.

Remember our "Education on Sobraines" conversation?

 

[JimInks]

Remember our "Education on Sobraines" conversation?

I certainly do.

 

[AJL67]

Jim my only argument with this statement is when you state the best that can happen is you will get very sick with possible long term health problems. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen mold on cigars and the shops or customers just wipe them off before they smoke them. I’ve done this with many Cuban Cigars as well as many friends that I know with absolutely no I’ll effects to anyone. I’m not condoning smoking anything with mold on it but I’ve never seen anyone suffer ill effects from it.

There is a difference between a couple little spots on a wrapper you can wipe off and smoke and mold in the foot of the cigar, every cigar smoker i know has no problem wiping off 3 or 4 tiny specks on a wrapper or two but not one of them will smoke a stick with mold visible in the foot, it’s a big difference.

 

[worlok]

People have mold in tins from any number of manufacturers. It happens.

Ever since the recall of 2016 CRF, people just assume that C&D had or still has major mold issues, which simply is not true. I've bought C&D products for over 20 years and never had a moldy tin.

Just a few months ago I had an 8oz can of GL Pease Telegraph Hill that had mold. Sent it back to Laudisi and they sent me another one that had the exact same problem. I then asked for 2 8oz cans of something different for my trouble, which they sent. I ended up with an 8oz of C&D Bayou Morning Flake and 8oz of Black Frigate, which were mold free. Recently I had a 4oz of Spark Plug that had mold. Yes, they still have mold issues.

 

[craig61a]

Just a few months ago I had an 8oz can of GL Pease Telegraph Hill that had mold. Sent it back to Laudisi and they sent me another one that had the exact same problem. I then asked for 2 8oz cans of something different for my trouble, which they sent. I ended up with an 8oz of C&D Bayou Morning Flake and 8oz of Black Frigate, which were mold free. Recently I had a 4oz of Spark Plug that had mold. Yes, they still have mold issues.

Therefore, “It happens”…

Is it with any recurring frequency?

 

[Steddy]

C&D, in my limited experience makes some of the most honest tasting pipe tobacco. I love it. Earthy, straightforward, a little rustic, complex, all depending on the blend of course.

I don’t give a rats ass if I get a moldy tin in the future. (I’ve only opened maybe 60, no mold) Small price to pay for something I love.

 

[Searock Fan]

Never had a can of tobacco "bulge". But I do know that when a can of food starts to bulge it's because the food is going bad and it's time to trash it.