Burning VS. Vaporizing

[hairvise]

I'm sure that we've all had the experience of absentmindedly drawing on a tobacco too hard or too fast and having the pipe deliver harsh, ashy smoke to our mouths. Then, when we return to sipping (say, a Vaper), we once again taste the bready, sweet and/or plummy flavor that we are searching for.

Could it be that really what we are doing when we smoke correctly is heating up the essential oils/sugars on the unburnt leaf to a temperature in which the vapor is released into the pipe? And that the actual burning of the leaf is what provides a more acrid flavor?

I ask because in the past I may have sampled *ahem* a different type of medicinal flower which to me tasted pretty terrible smoked like a cigarette, but when I vaporized said flower, the taste was fresh, minty and delicious.

 

[canucklehead]

Yes.??

 

[Country Bladesmith]

I’ve never smoked anything but tobacco (and don’t intend to), but there’s definitely a difference in burning vs smoldering.

 

[sablebrush52]

I smoke for flavor. To get that I've learned to keep the tobacco barely simmering, on the edge of going out. That's when I get the most flavor from a blend.. This requires knowing the proper moisture level for the blend I'm smoking. Too wet and the tobacco becomes difficult to control on that knife's edge. Too dry and some flavor notes may be diminished. Also, I find that excess moisture masks the flavors in a blend, especilly with Virginia blends and their variants. English/Oriental/Balkan blends are far more forgiving. By drying out Virginias to the point that they don't feel wet when squeezed, but are still pliant, I get the control I seek to keep the bowl simmering and the flavors bursting. It's the tobaccos simmering around the burning cherry that provide the flavors.

 

[spicy_boiii]

I smoke for flavor. To get that I've learned to keep the tobacco barely simmering, on the edge of going out. That's when I get the most flavor from a blend.. This requires knowing the proper moisture level for the blend I'm smoking. Too wet and the tobacco becomes difficult to control on that knife's edge. Too dry and some flavor notes may be diminished. Also, I find that excess moisture masks the flavors in a blend, especilly with Virginia blends and their variants. English/Oriental/Balkan blends are far more forgiving. By drying out Virginias to the point that they don't feel wet when squeezed, but are still pliant, I get the control I seek to keep the bowl simmering and the flavors bursting. It's the tobaccos simmering around the burning cherry that provide the flavors.

I can second every word of this. When I learned the aforementioned, my smokes became more tremendously more flavorful, less ashy, and more gentle to my mouth and sinuses. Also my bowls and smokes lasted WAY longer.

If handled correctly, it's almost like Virginia-based blends can't be too dry. Some of the flavor can be lost, but there only needs to be a smidgen of moisture to bring back 95% of that flavor.

As some of my fellow D&R fans have experienced, just the initial burning of the top of the bowl steams the rest of the tobacco, and you can always firm up the packed bowl with the tamper. Vaporizing is definitely where the flavor is in non-english blends.

 

[NomadOrb]

Also my bowls and smokes lasted WAY longer.

I noticed this as well. 30 minute sessions became 45. Also, I wasn't afraid to put the pipe down and let the flavors come back.

 

[anotherbob]

I'm sure that we've all had the experience of absentmindedly drawing on a tobacco too hard or too fast and having the pipe deliver harsh, ashy smoke to our mouths. Then, when we return to sipping (say, a Vaper), we once again taste the bready, sweet and/or plummy flavor that we are searching for.

Could it be that really what we are doing when we smoke correctly is heating up the essential oils/sugars on the unburnt leaf to a temperature in which the vapor is released into the pipe? And that the actual burning of the leaf is what provides a more acrid flavor?

I ask because in the past I may have sampled *ahem* a different type of medicinal flower which to me tasted pretty terrible smoked like a cigarette, but when I vaporized said flower, the taste was fresh, minty and delicious.

yeah that's precisely how it works. When you burn the leaf it kills lots of stuff in there including the nicotine. The flavors and nicotine are vaporized by the burning ember. That's also how herbal flowers work too. And when you heat it up more it causes more of the tobacco to be vaoprized at a greater volume then if you sip it more. So spot on.

 

[anotherbob]

I’ve never smoked anything but tobacco (and don’t intend to), but there’s definitely a difference in burning vs smoldering.

You might like it. And if not it won't ruin your life or anything.

 

[eugenepark]

This is actually a way that Japanese smokers can "smoke" now. It's a 1/3 cigarette that goes into an electronic vape base and the tobacco is heated up and inhaled.

 

[karam]

Yep, essentially we're tasting what lies just beneath the ember, and a bit of the smoke (there really should be little smoke coming out of a pipe anyway), filtered through the tobacco. Oils and sugar get vaporised and carried by the moisture generated by combustion.

 

[Country Bladesmith]

You might like it. And if not it won't ruin your life or anything.

Or I might like it too much! ? Then I’d have to buy a van and wear sandals... naw, I’m good. ?

 

[Sloopjohnbee]

when you vaporize you get the tobacco flavor clean and undisturbed - the smoking brings out volatility which is quite desirable when controlled - Tobacco should be burned

 

[hairvise]

Yep, essentially we're tasting what lies just beneath the ember, and a bit of the smoke (there really should be little smoke coming out of a pipe anyway), filtered through the tobacco. Oils and sugar get vaporised and carried by the moisture generated by combustion.

Thanks, @karam that’s what I was thinking but you expressed it so much more precisely.
One question—it seems standard practice here to dry down Virginia to almost at the edge of crispy. But I’m doing that, don’t the oils evaporate off and flavor is lost? Wouldn’t packing looser and smoking slower effectively keep the smoke dry enough instead?

 

[Country Bladesmith]

Thanks, @karam that’s what I was thinking but you expressed it so much more precisely.
One question—it seems standard practice here to dry down Virginia to almost at the edge of crispy. But I’m doing that, don’t the oils evaporate off and flavor is lost? Wouldn’t packing looser and smoking slower effectively keep the smoke dry enough instead?

Oils don’t really evaporate like water does.

 

[hairvise]

Or I might like it too much! ? Then I’d have to buy a van and wear sandals... naw, I’m good. ?

True words here! Years ago, I was tricked into smoking the evil weed here in San Francisco, and the next thing you know, I had an uncontrollable urge that could only be satisfied by buying this


True, my family and I traveled all over the west coast with the van and made indelible memories, but my addiction to weed finally wore off after years and we sold the van to another clearly drug crazed family!
I don’t miss the nasty drug anymore now that I have pipes, but I do admit to looking longingly at a pair of sandals whenever I see them in a shoe store display!

 

[hairvise]

Oils don’t really evaporate like water does.

That makes sense. But then why do people report some loss of flavor when they dry down Virginias? I had read that Greg Please prefers his Virginia a bit moist, so I’m just trying to understand this.

 

[ophiuchus]

I find some blends (most, in fact) benefit from drying, some are better left a little moist, and all the gradients in between. Like so many things, it’ll take some trial and error for you to figure out how you like it.

I had some Dunhill Dark Flake yesterday that I rubbed out but was too impatient to let dry out. It tasted great as it was, though I’ve had good experiences drying it out before.

 

[Country Bladesmith]

That makes sense. But then why do people report some loss of flavor when they dry down Virginias? I had read that Greg Please prefers his Virginia a bit moist, so I’m just trying to understand this.

Could be that the moisture (water vapor) helps carry certain nonpolar flavor compounds by breaking the oils up into tinier aerosolized droplets. Kind of the same way that restaurant kitchens end up with oil film on surfaces that are nowhere near the fryer. The steam from foods will aerosolize some of it and it drifts onto surfaces.

 

[haparnold]

I had read that Greg Please prefers his Virginia a bit moist, so I’m just trying to understand this.

Since moving from Kentucky (humid) to Colorado (dry), I now believe that "moist" and "dry" are really relative to the humidity where one lives. In Kentucky, I couldn't get my tobacco too dry, and would leave blends opened in the tin for months. Up here in the dry mountain air, a tin will get too dry to be an enjoyable smoke after a couple of weeks, unless properly taken care of.

 

[hairvise]

Could be that the moisture (water vapor) helps carry certain nonpolar flavor compounds by breaking the oils up into tinier aerosolized droplets. Kind of the same way that restaurant kitchens end up with oil film on surfaces that are nowhere near the fryer. The steam from foods will aerosolize some of it and it drifts onto surfaces.

That makes a lot of sense, and I very much appreciate the layman’s analogy of restaurant kitchens. Super helpful!