British Gents, A Little Help Please

[lordofthepiperings]

I was just curious if some brothers of the briar across the pond could shed some light on British currency for me. Lately I've been watching a lot of British crime shows like Poirot and Holmes (Jeremy Brett ofcourse) and I can't make heads or tale of how the money relates to one another. Always hearing a shilling, farthing, crown, pence (or pents you'll have to excuse my American mind). How do those all relate to the pound? In American money it's all a portion of a dollar. 100 cents makes a dollar and a penny is one cent, nickel five cents, dime ten cents, quarter twenty five cents. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[withnail]

Happy to help - the UK went decimal in 1971 and since then it has been the simple system of 100 pence to a pound with coins for 1p 2p 5p 10p 20p 50p £1 and £2 with notes for £5 £10 £20 and £50.
Before 1971 we still used the old system that used the ratio of 240:12:1 and sounds confusing to anyone not brought up with the "real money" (as it is still called by people of a certain age!)
The currency was divided in Pounds, Shillings and Pence (often abbreviated to L,S,D). There were 12 Pennies in a Shilling and 20 Shillings in a Pound. Which means that there were 240 Pennies in a Pound. To add another layer of complexity a Penny was also broken down into smaller units with a Farthing equal to One Quarter of a Penny and a Halfpenny equal to One Half and Three Farthings equal to Three Quarters of a Penny (although there was never a 3 farthing coin).
When you get your head around that system, there are the slang terms to consider. In the same way as a Dime is another term for Ten Cents the British equivalents were - "A Bob" was a Shilling (and so 10 Bob was 10 shillings etc). There was a 3 Penny coin, called a Threepenny Bit, A 6 Penny coin called a "Tanner". A 5 Shilling coin called a Crown and a 2 Shilling and 6 Penny coin (written as 2/6 pronounced as "2 and 6") that was called a Half Crown. A 10 Shilling coin was "Half a sovereign" and a 10 Shilling and 6 Pence coin called "Half a Guinea. Finally there was the Guinea which was equal to 1 Pound and 1 shilling.
You can imagine the concentration that was needed to do accounts in pre-1971 Britain! For example adding 2 guineas and 6 pence threefarthings to 1 Pound 2 and 6 minus half a crown discount!!!!!
With the increase in international sales after the second world war, there was increasing pressure to adopt a decimal system. The change over happened on 15th February 1971.
http://gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/units/money.htm with pics of some of the coins

http://www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/economic/currency.htm has some examples
Hope that helps at least a little!!
PS People of my parents generation can still sometime be heard to say "That's 10 Bob in real money" when disgusted at the ever increasing cost of living

 

[withnail]

P.S. The old fashioned bicycle with a large front wheel and small rear wheel (properly called the "Ordinary") was often called a "Penny Farthing". The ratio between the two wheels was roughly the same as between the large penny coin and smaller Farthing.

 

[oldmaus]

Thanks for the answer....very interesting to learn. Now to comprehend it.

 

[tobakenist]

To understand this you have to understand that we were decimalized in about 1971 so we have old Pence and new Pence so here we go, Coinage, old money, a Farthing is a 1/4 Penny a half Penny pronounced hapepenny, 3 pennys pronounced thruppenny bit, 6 pennys sixpence and sixpenny bit, 12 pence a shilling, 24 pennys 2 shillings or 2 bob, 30 pennys 2and6 or half a crown, 60 pennys a crown, Notes, 10 shillings or 10 bob note, 20 shillins £1 or 1 pound or a quid £5 or 5 quid £10 or 10 quid and a Guinea is 1 pond + a shilling, So there was 12 pennys to a shilling and 12 shillings to the pound. New money, cionage, 1p or 1 new pence or a penny, 5p or 5 new pence or a bob, 10p or 10 new pence or 2 bob, 50p or 50 new pence, Notes, £1, or pound or a quid, £5 or 5 pound or 5 quid or a fiver, £10 or 10 pound or 10 quid or a tenner. Hope this helps.

 

[brewshooter]

You know, 100p to a pound seems obvious, but I remember my first trip to London and on my very first day I was purchasing some small item at the grocer near my hotel. The price was around one pound twenty and I only had small coins in my pocket at the time, 50p or less. Suddenly I realized, I really had no idea how the pound broke down. I had always assumed 100p, but realized that was just because I was used to 100 cents to the dollar. I tentatively gave the shop keep what amounted to 120p in coinage and held my breath.

 

[withnail]

Thanks for the question - it has had me having a quick look around the 'net for more information. The old system came to Britain with the Norman Invasion of 1066 and remained until 1971. The coins mentioned in my first post were first introduced by King Henry II (the second - ruled from 1154-1189) and was based on the Troy system of weighing precious metal. A penny was originally one penny-weight of silver and 240 pennies weighed equal to one Pound of Sterling Silver - hence the term Pounds Sterling.
The symbols for Pounds Shilling and Pence was often written as L.S.D. from Latin Libra:Solidus:Denarius (which dates back to the Roman Invasion of Britain in the year 43 AD). So something costing 6 pence would be marked as 6d (think of the hat in traditional pictures of the Mad Hatter in Alice in Wonderland)
If you are interested have a look at these two BBC web pages looking at the effects of the change to decimal currency. Apparently there was a real worry about what to do if the Queen (whose head appears on all UK coins) suddenly died after the new coins had been produced, but before they had gone into circulation. There was also some public outcry at how retailers converted their prices as they, of course, tended to round things up rather than down. At least the UK resisted the decision to join the Euro, and keep our own currency!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/15/newsid_2543000/2543665.stm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12346083

 

[number6]

to the left :wink: "P.S. The old fashioned bicycle with a large front wheel and small rear wheel (properly called the "Ordinary") was often called a "Penny Farthing". The ratio between the two wheels was roughly the same as between the large penny coin and smaller Farthing."

 

[francois1]

HI i have been living in sct for 5 years now and still strugle to get the currency

i come origionally from south africa there we deel in 10/100/1000 just like

the dollar that i understand but the pound for me difficutl

but i do understand is i am always broke ,that would be universal

world wide ,now that i understand

david

 

[lordofthepiperings]

Thanks for the very detailed response. I figured it was probably something of how the old system was, being that Poirot is set in the 40's and Holmes in the late Victorian Era. Greatly appreciated and well written out. Thanks again.

 

[hauntedmyst]

If any of our British friends would run over to the BSA factory in Birmingham and grab me a multishot Ultra with a synthetic stock, I would appreciate it. Their impossible to find in the USA.

 

[tslex]

I want to thank you especially for helping me finally understand what a "Guinea" is.
I get it -- a pound and a shilling is a Guinea.
Now, just one more question: Why? Why does this unit of currency exist? It's like if we had an "eagle" and that was a unit worth a dollar and dime.

 

[withnail]

The Guinea was a gold coin originally worth 1 pound (20 Shillings). Due the change in gold prices it varied in value up to a high of 30 shillings. It was called a Guinea as that is the area of Africa most of the gold used to make coins came from.
In 1816 Britain adopted the "Gold Standard" and it's value was set at 21 shillings. It was also useful in the pricing of more expensive items which often used Guineas. 2 Guineas sounds cheaper than 2 pound 2 shillings, in the same way as we have so many stores selling things at however many pounds/dollars and 99 pence/cents. The term is still used in horse racing with prizes for the winning trainer often being expressed in Guineas as well as the value of race horses. Apparently some other live-stock is still sold in Guineas rather than Pounds. :laughat: The UK has always had a weird relationship with the metric system. We buy litres of fuel but pints of beer and milk! We'll buy a pound of sugar to go with 500 grams of strawberries
So, it is a little like having a $1.05 coin in circulation and calling that an "Eagle" (which considering the USA National Emblem would be a good choice of word)

 

[withnail]

To Number6 - "I am not a number I am a free man!" :clap:

 

[withnail]

Doh - I forgot to add one more thing! "Why use such a strange system of currency?" Many items used to be sold in dozens or 20s. This made the arithmetic easy as if eggs cost 4 Shillings a dozen, it follow that they cost 4 pence each.
Hope you have been paying attention as there will be a surprise quiz on the subject before the Christmas holiday!

 

[philip]

Around here we just have wooden nickels which aren't worth a farthing.

 

[tslex]

I've learned a lot here.
Well explained. Thanks.

 

[yohanan]

That's pretty neat, Thanks for the information.

And thanks to lordofhtepiperings for starting the thread. ::

 

[kcvet67]

It's like if we had an "eagle" and that was a unit worth a dollar and dime.

We had an Eagle until 1933. It was a gold coin worth $10 and was about the size of a half dollar. There was also a Half Eagle ($5) and a Quarter Eagle ($2.50). Following the California Gold Rush there was also a $20 Double Eagle.

 

[morlader]

I am old enough to remember the "joey".That was a small silver threepennny piece that preceded the eight sided threepenny bit.I have one or two in my collection of old (real)currency. I was glad when the white five pound notes went,they were huge and a pain in the butt.We would get them when we paid off a ship after a voyage and most shopkeepers didn't like them so we had to chang them in a bank for smaller change. :D