Bowl Sanding Qs.

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johnnyrebel

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 3, 2010
192
0
Hey guys,
I've been thinking about sanding a bowl down and i was curious about a little bit of advice for that. Im thinking about going at it with some 150grain, though i have some stronger paper. Are thier some things i need to look out for when im doing this? Possible ways to damage the bowl? Then once i've sanded the residue out of the bowl, would it be nessicary to put somthing to coat the inside of the bowl with? Their was a topic about this before, sombody was cleaning their pipe..i for the life of me couldn't find it, so i figured i would just make a new one.
Finally i have a question about the stem, i was curious if it would hard the piece to place it into a bath of grain alcohol? Its got a metal filter piece in it, and i've tried everything under the sun to get it out and clean the actual stem. So im curious if anybody has some tips of this as well?
Thanks for reading, curious to see what you guys think.

 

bubbadreier

Lifer
Jul 30, 2010
3,011
3
Norman, Oklahoma
Well I can't answer all of your questions but I can answer at least one. Soak the hell out of the stem! :lol: It will really help to get the stinger out of the stem, it might take it away to break down all that gunk, but it is worth the wait!

 

unclearthur

Lifer
Mar 9, 2010
6,875
5
Are you planning to sand the whole bowl inside and out ? If so then an over night soak for the bowl in alcohol will remove pretty much all the finish and pull the stain giving you a clean slate to start from. If the exterior has no serious defects start with a fine paper probably no more aggressive than 320 . Use the finest paper you can to avoid deep sanding scratches. Leather dye is about the best stain I know of and about any shoe repair place has it. For stuck stingers I warm the stem with my heat gun to loosen the crud.

 

romeowood

Lifer
Jan 1, 2011
1,942
155
The Interwebs
I can answer part of this question from the woodworker perspective; if something I advise contradicts good practice by all means I welcome a more experienced pipe person to correct me.
If you start sanding with anything more coarse than 300 grit you'l regret it. I've worked projects down to 1000 grit paper before moving on to compounds like rottenstone and such, and from what I've gathered in my research on working briar so do many of the fine pipe makers. Doing a very good job with sanding doesn't take a whole lot of skill, but it takes a lot more patience than most people have--start with 300, sand it twice as long as you think you need to with about half the pressure you think you need to, then sand it twice as long again, dust it off, then walk away. Because by then you're never going to want to sand anything again and just want the whole process to be over with. Of course sand with the grain if there is any; areas of burl call for tiny little circular motions. Much much later, after your hands have uncramped, start sanding gently again with 400 grit, then work your way through every grit up to at least 800, again spending twice as long as you think you need then doubling it. Also keep in mind that unless you have a very high-end pipe there are going to be pits and spots that are filled with putty; sanding will expose these, and using a solvent may dissolve or weaken them. Now you may need to re-fill any putty spots or dropouts that have been exposed; then some more sanding will follow but it goes faster this time. If you haven't thrown the briar in the fire or the road by now, you may consider a rubbing compound like rottenstone or the like at this point; a fine lambswool or chamois cloth dampened with saliva works best in my experience to work it in.
On the subject of coloring, unclearthur is referring to aniline dye, which actually infiltrates the wood on a cellular level, unlike stains which really only lay between and on top of wood fibers. There are two varieties, water-soluble and alcohol-soluble; for your pipe you will want the alcohol-soluble. Everclear again makes a good suspension medium for the dye; whiskey or vodka however does not. Wood alcohol, or wood spirits / wood naphtha / methyl alcohol, is preferred. You can buy dye and spirits from woodworker supply shops online. I've always warmed the alcohol slightly to ease the solution, and you'll definitely want to experiment on a piece of scrap wood to get an idea of the color. deep colors take repeated applications and / or soaking; I would also advise AGAINST exposing the interior of the bowl chamber or stem to the dye.
Aniline applications WILL bleed out their color! To get the truest color I would apply very heavily on the first application, allow to dry thoroughly, then rub in a clean cotton jersey cloth vigorously to draw out the loose color--then apply again, repeat, repeat, until I achieved the desired depth of color.
Next you'll need to seal this in, and this is where I've come across a lot of conflicting advice in my research. Personally, I would not use anything with petroleum distillates in something I was going to eat or smoke, but I've seen differing opinions on this. So from here on out, I can only tell you what *I* would do. I'd rub a seal coat in of some wood oil like tung or pine tar that was distilled with wood alcohol only, no petroleum. Then a wax coat, pure carnauba, and another and another and another until I had a glass finish.
These colors are sensitive in varying degrees to UV exposure, which is one of the reasons it's not a good idea to leave your pipe out in the sun. Red will fade quickest, then violets / oranges / yellows / blues / greens.
And this was the short version. So you can see, you can do as much or as little work on it as you want. But this is about the minimum I would do to a pipe.
Regarding stems, I've little to no experience, but I'm learning a lot from the forums and other research, and always eager to hear more.

 

unclearthur

Lifer
Mar 9, 2010
6,875
5
Excellent advise Romeo. Most of my non-food or pipe work is finished off with many coats of boiled linseed oil. For pipes I stain then use a very thin cut of shellac to set the stain after a serious wipe down . Followed bu gentle sanding at around 800. followed by another wipe of stain. another very thin wipe of shellac and the final sanding up to the OMG my hands hurt stage. for new briar I stop at around 1500. On refinished pipes usually well before as the time isn't worth it if I am selling the pipe off. And of course the final finish is carnauba wax.

 

romeowood

Lifer
Jan 1, 2011
1,942
155
The Interwebs
Thanks uncle. How do you work your shellac--do you get the pearls and reduce your own? I've also heard of (vegetarians may want to cover their eyes for a moment) boiled bone and sinew as an intermediary in the finishing, but never used it myself. I descend from a long line of cave-dwelling Welsh woodworkers, you see.

 

unclearthur

Lifer
Mar 9, 2010
6,875
5
I like to cut my own shellac from flake. Depending on what i am going for I will use either white or the amber. Always dewaxed. I sort of do my mixtures by guess to get a VERY thin cut . What I end up with is basically a sanding sealer that I am able to work with far more quickly than commercial stuff. Being a history nut i have tried the animal sizes. First off they stink and second they require a glue pot . Too much hassle for what I can get with a nice shellac that doesn't smell like rotting hides.

 

johnnyrebel

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 3, 2010
192
0
Thanks for the replies, alot of good stuff here. I'll have to read it a couple more times before i feel comfortable about putting it into practice myself. Not that im suspicious of your directions, its just alot of new information to take in!
I have a couple more questions though, which concern very minor details of the whole process, which would be the stamp and the inside of the bowl. Would the stamp be sanded off when i sand down the shank? I just like the stamp, and would like to preserve that. Also the inside of the bowl, would just sanding that down to the wood work and smoke it with bare wood? Or would i need to make a spread to coat the inside of the bowl? Also, would it matter what grain of paper i would use on the inside of the bowl?
As for the range of sandpaper, i hadn't thought of that..youre absolutely right. To me it all sounds right. The work on the outside is alot more in depth than i thought. I just figured i would go get a piece of sandpaper and run that babe down. Scratch that idea! Tons of great advice guys, thanks again. I'll pick up some finer paper soon here.

 

collin

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 29, 2010
881
2
Oklahoma
(This step only comes after I ream the bowl and get all the cake out.)
If you were referring to sanding out the interior of the bowl, I would suggest 180 grit wrapped around a cylindrical object… I use a deep socket from my tool box. Use a Q-tip and some Everclear to clean out the dust and let dry overnight.
Mix up a “paint” consisting of equal parts of;

(1) powdered activated charcoal (eBay),

(2) sour cream

(3) buttermilk.
Coat the walls of the bowl, (mind the draft hole) with a very soft wide brush. Let dry 48 hours.
You’re good to go.
*edit* you were posting while I was. Evidently you were talking about the outside of the bowl,....sorry.

 

johnnyrebel

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 3, 2010
192
0
Tommy, im actually looking to restore the pipe inside and out. Is it nessicary to ream and before and paint afterwards or would it matter to use it bare wood? Does the painting of the inside protect the wood, or the bowl from damage? Thanks
Edit: The pipe has a nice finish, it really just needs to be buffed..though the rim is scorched and i was wondering if i could just sand the rim down. Though im sure i'll have to sand the whole pipe, but i thought i would check anyways.

 

collin

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 29, 2010
881
2
Oklahoma
Is the rim "scorched" or just dark? Take a piece of cotton rag, I use an old tee-shirt, wet it with good old American spit and rub with the cotton rag between your fingernail and the rim. Most of the darkening will come off.
I always paint the inside of my bowls after I remove all the cake, only because that's the way I read it should be done.

I'm not expert by any means....only having re-furbished 10 or 12 pipes, there are many here more qualified than I, but I've had no problems with the pipes that I've re-done.

 

unclearthur

Lifer
Mar 9, 2010
6,875
5
After doing a couple hundred pipes in the last couple years I would say it depends a lot on the pipe whether you coat the bowl or not. The coating Tommy uses is excellent. I have used that brew numerous times. As for topping the bowl, I stick 320 paper to my jointer bed and gently move the top of the bowl in circles, reversing direction often and constantly checking to see that all is staying nice and level.Once things are looking good I go to progressively finer paper till the top is nice and smooth. Then off to the buffer. Often a light wipe with Extra virgin olive oil is enough to darken the rim enough to look OK. As you smoke the pipe it will darken some as well.

 

romeowood

Lifer
Jan 1, 2011
1,942
155
The Interwebs
@Johnny--it all depends on how much you want to invest in rehabbing your pipe, really. If you can send a clear picture I'm sure the forum could chime in much more accurately about your best course of action; it's always hard to figure out from a description, and why I never give prices over the phone. :lol:

The reasoning behind my recommendations regarding the sanding process are that removing material is a one-way process; in other words, once you take it off, it's gone. And the more dense the grain is, the more that it will show every single cut from the sandpaper. Skipping steps of grit only rounds out flaws you've created, it doesn't get the job done faster (i.e., moving to a grit too fine from the previous one will not remove material down to the level of the previous one, leaving you with deeper scratches). This holds true for woodworking (or metal- or stone- or whatever-) in general.
@ Tommy--now *that's* an interesting one that I've not seen before. You do this after completely reaming out a chamber to wood again?
And also, for food grade work in the past I've avoided EVOO as *I* feel it has the ability to go rancid at worst, and just impart a color / scent I'm not fond of at least. Instead I stick with neutral mineral oils, beeswax, etc. But a lot of people swear by the EVOO.

 

python

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 8, 2009
3,756
7,254
Maryland
pipesmagazine.com
Some stingers are not removable. For example, Kaywoodie pipes. Their stingers do not come out, that is why a lot of people cut them off just above the threads of the stinger so that the stem will still screw in but the metal stinger part is gone.
The problem with this is that it ruins the value of the pipe. If it is an old 4 hole stinger Kaywoodie pipe and you cut it off, the price of the pipe drops dramatically.
I always keep all of the stingers in any pipe that I have. If the are removable, I will remove them and store them in a drawer just in case I want to sell it some day. That way the pipe will still be 100% intact.

 

jship079

Can't Leave
Oct 17, 2010
457
2
When you said wood alcohol only do you mean denatured or something I have heard other people talk about using formby's tung oil and was wondering what you ment buy cutting it down with wood alcohol only

 

johnnyrebel

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 3, 2010
192
0
Romeo, i haven't started the restoration yet. I hadn't even gotten the pipes yet, but i knew the general condition they were in. I dont have pictures of the restoration, but im going to start cleaning them up tonight..maybe start sanding on Thursday. Its an LHS, and a Dr.Grabow Crown Duke. I'll post up some pictures tonight when i get a chance. Maybe some futher advice as well.
I hate to brag, but i would like to push the antique shopping though..i picked both of these up for 8dollars..they're a bit beat up. The LHS has the rim really tore up. Looks like the previous owner probably knocked these pipes around a bit Quite a bit of surface damage..im sure it will all sand out though..I'll bring some pictures tonight so you can se waht i mean. (I'd like to level out the rim and sand off the old dented off rims)

 

johnnyrebel

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 3, 2010
192
0
So i finally got around to taking some picturs..a couple days late. I've already started to clean the stems. Getting the gunk off them and things. I still dont think im done. Will all of the oxi. ever come off completely? Or does cleaning it until it appears uniform work?
Here is the pipe im thinking of sanding down.

100_0154.jpg

LHS.jpg

LHSUnder.jpg

LHSBowl.jpg

With the last pictures you can see that the rim on the bowl has been beat on significantly. If it were possible i would just like to work out the rim, if theirs a way of doing that..that would be more of what im looking to do. Really just looking to make the rim uniform and flat. I rather like the color of the stains on both the pipes..a bit worn, i think it gives the pipe a bit of character. But since getting the stain to match up would be nearly impossible its looking like the whole bowl needs to be sanded. Being a new-comer, it seems like a daunting task! As for the Dr.Grawbow, i'll post some pictures below..its okay, i dont know if i'll sand this one. Depending on how the first one turns out really, and how it cleans up.
I've got the bowl salting right now, since last night..its turned nearly black!
RDrGrabow.jpg

DrGrabowRim.jpg

DrGrabowStem.jpg

What im trying to work out right now, is how to clean the inside of the stem. The metal piece on the filter makes it only able to be cleaned up into that. The rest of the stem has gunk in it, i've let it soak and things but no success on it coming out..any suggestions on cleaning this out? Pipe cleaners wont fit through the bit.
All these pipes belonged to the same guy that i bought that first Dr.Grawbow from in December. I can smell the same blend in all of them..very sweet, smells like an aro. haha. Turned out to be a really nice smoke and a good pipe for the price. So i thought i would give these other pipes a shot as well. Any and all advice is welcome. Thanks.

 

ejames

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
3,916
22
Cover that aluminum with vasilene cramming as much as possible down into the tenon and soak the stem in bleach. I use about a 50-50 mix of bleach and water. stick a pipe cleaner into the button end and suspend the stem in the bleach and leave it for a few hours. After a while it will turn a dull black. Sand it, starting with a 360-400 grit sandpaper and work up to at least 800. If you don't have buffer Micro-Mesh will put a nice shine on it with enough elbow grease.

Or you could order the stem cleaning kit from Walker Briar Works. It will do the job from what I've heard--also with a lot of elbow grease.
As far as cleaning out the inside of that DG stem. straighten out a large paper clip(or a piece of other small stiff wire) and use it to "drill" through the crud working from the button end.. Once you get that all the way through, soak it some more in alcohol and then try a pipe cleaner. 4-Noggins and others sell neat little brushes for cleaning shanks and stems.

 
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