Barling, Pre- And Post-Transition, Means What?

[mso489]

I don't own a Barling, but I follow the brand on sable's posts, and the pre- and post-transition language interests me. Pipepedia has pages on this, and I understand how the ownership changed, and the pipes did too. I somewhat assume, from context, that the pre-transition pipes are considered by far the better ones ... or so it seems. Could someone suss out the prevailing opinions on this, and exactly what changed about the pipes, and maybe the character of the ownership? This is a story line that percolates through Barling lore but isn't often explained. Nothing too expansive, just a few clarifying points, perhaps.

 

[americaman]

During much of the pre-transition era, or all of it, Barling used very old Algerian briar (this is where the “Ye Olde Wood” stamping came from). They would source their own briar, and it was known for giving a cool smoke. I have heard that the Algerian briar they used was 100 years old, but I am unsure. The pipes were also made better. Jesse will be here soon enough.

 

[mso489]

I'm sure we're not talking Barling grade, but the house pipes sold by Iwan Ries about fifteen years ago were advertised as being made with oil cured Algerian briar by Benton, a subset of Edwards, and they were and still are fine smokers. So what happened to the pipes in post-transition?

 

[dquisenberry]

Up to 1960: Pre-transition period. The production was controlled by the Barling family
1961-66: Transition period:
from 1967: Post-transition period:

different markings for each period. Several sources of info if you google.

start here Barling -- Pipes : Logos & Markings - http://www.pipephil.eu/logos/en/logo-barling.html

 

[mso489]

From the Barling thread, from sable himself, it sounds like the post-transition pipes are done by Nording by ownership's specifications (?). It seems from the SP pages the pre-transition pipe go for about twice post- , so that suggests disparity in esteem.

 

[sablebrush52]

Up to 1960: Pre-transition period. The production was controlled by the Barling family
1961-66: Transition period:
from 1967: Post-transition period:

different markings for each period. Several sources of info if you google.

start here Barling -- Pipes : Logos & Markings - http://www.pipephil.eu/logos/en/logo-barling.html

Not exactly correct. The story is a bit more complicated than that.
Pre-Transition refers to the period when the family owned the company, which they sold in late October of 1960 to Finlays, one of their largest and oldest customers.

Montague Barling and Williamson Barling were retained to run the company for Finlay, which they did until mid 1962, when they were given the sack. Up til that time, the nomenclature remained the same. So there are 20 months of production of "Transition" pipes that can't be distinguished from "Pre-Transition" pipes.

In November of 1962 Finlay released a revamped product line up with new stampings, swapping out the block lettered "Barling's Make" with a script "Barling" and changing other stampings as well. These represent the so called "Transition" Period, which lasted until February of 1963, when Imperial Tobacco exercised their option to buy out the rest of Finlay, of which they already owned 40, or was it 49, percent. So the so called recognizable "Transition" Period didn't last to 1967. It lasted for about 3 months.

And the stampings on those "Transition" pipes are the same as the "Post Transition" pipes, at least the earlier ones before Imperial closed the Barling factories and outsourced manufacture to Charatan and Oppenheimer. John Adler, former chairman of the Oppenheimer Group, confirmed that for me in correspondence.

So there's actually no way to distinguish all the "Pre-Transition" pipes from the "Pre-Transition" looking "Transition" pipes, nor is there any way to distinguish the "Transition" pipes from the early "Post-Transition" pipes. The later stuff made by Charatan, Oppenheimer, and later, Nording can be distinguished from the Barling factory product if you know what to look for.

This a long winded way of saying that the "Pre-Transition", "Transition", "Post-Transition" definitions are basically inaccurate and, well, a load of hooey, especially the "Transition" term.

Which is why I dumped these sorry assed terms when I wrote the Barling article for Pipedia, and went with "Family Era" and "Corporate Era" because, while it's not perfect, it's one hell of a lot more accurate, as well as based on some semblance of reality.

BTW, some real hard cases hold that the "Pre-Transition" era ended in 1954 when Barling lost its harvesting operations in Algeria, because of that inconvenient War for Independence, and were forced to buy their stock on the open market. Therefore the "Transition 1" era extends from 1954 to 1960, and the "Transition 2" era runs from 1960 to 1967, or 1964, or whatever, depending on which psycho you talk with.

So what's the difference? When Barling controlled their own pipeline from the ground to the sales counter, they made what many consider the finest smoking implements to come out of Britain. Not only was their wood top notch, as well as their processing of it, but the quality of the stem work was top notch as well. The pipes were legendary for the old growth Algerian briar, which went away after 1954. After that Barling was the 800 lb gorilla of the pipe trade, pulling in the best briar that Otto Braun could supply. They did this so successfully that most smokers can't tell the difference between the Algerian product and the stuff grown everywhere else.

Once Imperial bumped off Finlays, they began to broaden the range of products being produced at the factory, including making Falcon pipes. They canned the more experienced, older, and more expensive carvers, introduced recognized lines of seconds to down stream lesser wood, and simplified the range of shapes. The line went into decline.

Then Imperial closed the factories and outsourced to Charatan and Oppenheimer. So now, nothing was the same, except the stamps. This doesn't mean that the pipes went to hell in a hand basket. Charatan wasn't exactly chicken liver when it came to making pipes, and neither was Oppenheimer. When that failed to be profitable enough, Imperial outsourced to Nording. Eventually they sold the Barling IP to an investor group who intended to return the pipe to its former greatness, but that ran aground when the factory burned to the ground.

Finally, Peterson ended up making Barling stamped pipes for some later entity that had gained control of the Barling IP. From all the accounts I've heard, those pipes were crap.

That's about it.

 

[mso489]

Between your post, sable, and your Pipedia piece, I have a sound introduction to the world of Barling, available from no other source in such condensed form. Thank you kindly. Now I know where the devotion to Barling comes from.

 

[davet]

Thank you for that Jesse, very informative

 

[dquisenberry]

Not exactly correct. The story is a bit more complicated than that.
Pre-Transition refers to the period when the family owned the company, which they sold in late October of 1960 to Finlays, one of their largest and oldest customers.

Montague Barling and Williamson Barling were retained to run the company for Finlay, which they did until mid 1962, when they were given the sack. Up til that time, the nomenclature remained the same. So there are 20 months of production of "Transition" pipes that can't be distinguished from "Pre-Transition" pipes.

In November of 1962 Finlay released a revamped product line up with new stampings, swapping out the block lettered "Barling's Make" with a script "Barling" and changing other stampings as well. These represent the so called "Transition" Period, which lasted until February of 1963, when Imperial Tobacco exercised their option to buy out the rest of Finlay, of which they already owned 40, or was it 49, percent. So the so called recognizable "Transition" Period didn't last to 1967. It lasted for about 3 months.

And the stampings on those "Transition" pipes are the same as the "Post Transition" pipes, at least the earlier ones before Imperial closed the Barling factories and outsourced manufacture to Charatan and Oppenheimer. John Adler, former chairman of the Oppenheimer Group, confirmed that for me in correspondence.

So there's actually no way to distinguish all the "Pre-Transition" pipes from the "Pre-Transition" looking "Transition" pipes, nor is there any way to distinguish the "Transition" pipes from the early "Post-Transition" pipes. The later stuff made by Charatan, Oppenheimer, and later, Nording can be distinguished from the Barling factory product if you know what to look for.

This a long winded way of saying that the "Pre-Transition", "Transition", "Post-Transition" definitions are basically inaccurate and, well, a load of hooey, especially the "Transition" term.

Which is why I dumped these sorry assed terms when I wrote the Barling article for Pipedia, and went with "Family Era" and "Corporate Era" because, while it's not perfect, it's one hell of a lot more accurate, as well as based on some semblance of reality.

BTW, some real hard cases hold that the "Pre-Transition" era ended in 1954 when Barling lost its harvesting operations in Algeria, because of that inconvenient War for Independence, and were forced to buy their stock on the open market. Therefore the "Transition 1" era extends from 1954 to 1960, and the "Transition 2" era runs from 1960 to 1967, or 1964, or whatever, depending on which psycho you talk with.

So what's the difference? When Barling controlled their own pipeline from the ground to the sales counter, they made what many consider the finest smoking implements to come out of Britain. Not only was their wood top notch, as well as their processing of it, but the quality of the stem work was top notch as well. The pipes were legendary for the old growth Algerian briar, which went away after 1954. After that Barling was the 800 lb gorilla of the pipe trade, pulling in the best briar that Otto Braun could supply. They did this so successfully that most smokers can't tell the difference between the Algerian product and the stuff grown everywhere else.

Once Imperial bumped off Finlays, they began to broaden the range of products being produced at the factory, including making Falcon pipes. They canned the more experienced, older, and more expensive carvers, introduced recognized lines of seconds to down stream lesser wood, and simplified the range of shapes. The line went into decline.

Then Imperial closed the factories and outsourced to Charatan and Oppenheimer. So now, nothing was the same, except the stamps. This doesn't mean that the pipes went to hell in a hand basket. Charatan wasn't exactly chicken liver when it came to making pipes, and neither was Oppenheimer. When that failed to be profitable enough, Imperial outsourced to Nording. Eventually they sold the Barling IP to an investor group who intended to return the pipe to its former greatness, but that ran aground when the factory burned to the ground.

Finally, Peterson ended up making Barling stamped pipes for some later entity that had gained control of the Barling IP. From all the accounts I've heard, those pipes were crap.

That's about it.

I thought Briarworks made all the post transition?