Astley's Pipe Restoration, Peterson Made Or A Look-a-Like?

[Lost Somnambulist]

At first glance at the sales images, I thought this was an old Peterson. The heavy oxidation was a good hint that the ferrule was sterling. It looked like a good project pipe and the price was really good. Also, I've had regrets about giving away a standard system Peterson to a relative be cause I just seem too large at the time.
The pipe turns out to be an Astley's of 109 Jermyn St. It looks like an old one with an orifice button and the sterling ferrule does not have any marks other than "Silver" in script on it.
Other than a bite-through on top of the stem and being full of dust in the bowl, it was in remarkably good shape. Whomever the original owner was, they kept a clean bowl. With the ferrule shined, the stem deoxidized, and the Astley's "A" carefully brought back, I think it has turned into a good looking pipe. This was also my first repair of a full bite-through. It turned out well but after all the work, I'm still protecting it with a bite protector. That is something I generally don't use but I'm making an exception here.
I've been searching for more information, I didn't know anything about Astley's pipes, but have not found any images of an Astley's quite like this one. Asking Google if Peterson ever made pipes for Astley's got me a "it is rumored, but there is no evidence" response.
Now that my curiosity has been peaked, I'm hoping some of you pipe gurus can shed a little more knowledge on this pipe. With the orifice button and no sterling marks other than "Silver" it feels like it is an older pipe. Also, it does have an uncanny profile to old images of earlier Peterson 213 pipes. Is that just a coincidence? It comes in a 73g though which is heavier than similar Peterson pipes I've seen online. Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.

Original photo:





Restored:

 

[huntertrw]

Here is a link to the Astley's Webpage on the pipedia.org Website. Be sure to click on the two links at the bottom of the "Catalogs" section for even more information.

Also, on Page 12 of Richard Carleton Hacker's "Rare Smoke - The Ultimate Guide to Pipe Collecting" there is a photograph of the facade of the old Astley's shop on Jermyn Street in London. Ah, but to have been able to spend a few memorable hours there!

I hope that this helps.

 

[RustiePyles CPG]

Nice work, it’s definitely a Peterson made for Astleys. And judging by the orific button it’s an early one. That’s the first Astley’s Pete I’ve ever seen, congrats.

 

[Lost Somnambulist]

Here is a link to the Astley's Webpage on the pipedia.org Website. Be sure to click on the two links at the bottom of the "Catalogs" section for even more information.

Also, on Page 12 of Richard Carleton Hacker's "Rare Smoke - The Ultimate Guide to Pipe Collecting" there is a photograph of the facade of the old Astley's shop on Jermyn Street in London. Ah, but to have spent a few memorable hours there!

I hope that this helps.

Thanks for the links! One of the things I enjoy about the occasional restoration project is the connection to the history of pipes. A few memorable hours there would have been something.

 

[Lost Somnambulist]

Nice work, it’s definitely a Peterson made for Astleys. And judging by the orific button it’s an early one. That’s the first Astley’s Pete I’ve ever seen, congrats.

Thanks for the confirmation. A part of the enjoyment for me is perusing mysteries like this.

 

[sablebrush52]

I’d say that it definitely “looks” like a Peterson with an Astley’s stamp on it. The sterling olive lacking proper hallmarks and makers marks is bothering me.
There was SO much fakery under Ezrati’s ownership of the brand, refinishing and restamping of pipes bought in auctions and estate sales that any little strangeness makes for doubt.
That’s Ezrati’s legacy, permanently crapping up the Astley’s name.

 

[paulfg]

whats the end of the tenon look like and is there a well drilled in the stummel?

 

[Lost Somnambulist]

I’d say that it definitely “looks” like a Peterson with an Astley’s stamp on it. The sterling olive lacking proper hallmarks and makers marks is bothering me.
There was SO much fakery under Ezrati’s ownership of the brand, refinishing and restamping of pipes bought in auctions and estate sales that any little strangeness makes for doubt.
That’s Ezrati’s legacy, permanently crapping up the Astley’s name.

I had stumbled across some of discussion of this and attempted to find photos of the "fakery" to compare. It is unfortunate that occurrences haven't been documented better. But then, I don't tend to documents disappointments either. You are right, it's sad what has been done to the Astley's name. Even so, it has at least led me to learn something of Astley's history.
This pipe may always have a touch of mystery. It is a very nice hunk of briar and the ferrule is a robust, well-fitted bit of sterling. Hallmarks would be nice clues and I had hoped they would show up under the oxidation, but no. If it turns out to be a very nice pipe shadowed by a bit of mystery and controversy, that's a part of this adventure I suppose.

 

[Lost Somnambulist]

whats the end of the tenon look like and is there a well drilled in the stummel?

There is a well, not as deep as some. Here is a photo of the tenon end:

 

[sablebrush52]

I had stumbled across some of discussion of this and attempted to find photos of the "fakery" to compare. It is unfortunate that occurrences haven't been documented better. But then, I don't tend to documents disappointments either. You are right, it's sad what has been done to the Astley's name. Even so, it has at least led me to learn something of Astley's history.
This pipe may always have a touch of mystery. It is a very nice hunk of briar and the ferrule is a robust, well-fitted bit of sterling. Hallmarks would be nice clues and I had hoped they would show up under the oxidation, but no. If it turns out to be a very nice pipe shadowed by a bit of mystery and controversy, that's a part of this adventure I suppose.

Actually, there is photographic evidence of the fraud being perpetrated:

Astley Pipes = Re-Stamped Estate Pipes (Photos) :: General Pipe Smoking Discussion

A recent post on the old "Astley Assertion in Pipedia" thread ( http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/astley-assertion-in-pipedia ) seems to give photographic proof of the assertion that "Astley" pipes being sold by James Upshall Co on ebay are really restamped estate pipes. It is truly...

pipesmagazine.com

Part of what's odd, besides the unhallmarked sterling, is that it's a Peterson, or a pipe made in a similar style. Astley's was associated with very conservatively classic shapes. At the time when this pipe would have been made, the shop had a contract with Charatan, which produced small classically shaped pipes, modeled on the French canon. Later Astey's is associated with Dunhill and GBD, again, conservative French influenced classical styles.

And, it may very well be the real deal, but there's no way to say absolutely that it is a pipe made made for and sold by Astley's, only that it is a pipe stamped with an Astley's stamp.

All that aside, the most important thing is do you like the pipe and is it a good smoker. The rest is interesting, but not essential.

 

[Waning Embers]

Looks more like a house pipe made by Savinelli.

Savinelli Dry 614

 

[Lost Somnambulist]

Actually, there is photographic evidence of the fraud being perpetrated:

Astley Pipes = Re-Stamped Estate Pipes (Photos) :: General Pipe Smoking Discussion

A recent post on the old "Astley Assertion in Pipedia" thread ( http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/astley-assertion-in-pipedia ) seems to give photographic proof of the assertion that "Astley" pipes being sold by James Upshall Co on ebay are really restamped estate pipes. It is truly...

pipesmagazine.com

Part of what's odd, besides the unhallmarked sterling, is that it's a Peterson, or a pipe made in a similar style. Astley's was associated with very conservatively classic shapes. At the time when this pipe would have been made, the shop had a contract with Charatan, which produced small classically shaped pipes, modeled on the French canon. Later Astey's is associated with Dunhill and GBD, again, conservative French influenced classical styles.

And, it may very well be the real deal, but there's no way to say absolutely that it is a pipe made made for and sold by Astley's, only that it is a pipe stamped with an Astley's stamp.

All that aside, the most important thing is do you like the pipe and is it a good smoker. The rest is interesting, but not essential.

Thanks for the link. I had found it earlier, but many of the links aren't valid any longer and the photos that are visible aren't the close up, detailed comparisons that would help my mind. I'm a give me more data kind of person. Question every detail was hammered into me long ago.
I 100% agree about "The rest is interesting, but not essential." comment. It is still intriguing to delve into a little history, famous and infamous.

 

[lazar]

Peterson has outsourced stummels to France at times (I don't have my Peterson book with me so can't look it up) -- so it could be that Astely's just bought some from the same source. I would think that if it were really Peterson-made it would have a COI stamp. Lot so Peterson-type knock offs out there. That's definitely a nice one, though, with the silver band and all.

 

[Lost Somnambulist]

Looks more like a house pipe made by Savinelli.

Savinelli Dry 614
View attachment 397626

Hmmmm, an Italian connection. Interesting possibility.

 

[Lost Somnambulist]

Peterson has outsourced stummels to France at times (I don't have my Peterson book with me so can't look it up) -- so it could be that Astely's just bought some from the same source. I would think that if it were really Peterson-made it would have a COI stamp. Lot so Peterson-type knock offs out there. That's definitely a nice one, though, with the silver band and all.

I didn't realize Peterson has outsourced stummels, but that is the nature of business. There are a lot of knock offs, I enjoy the shape so I've ended up with a few myself.

Here is a link I found that shows remarkable similarities to features of this pipe:

Peterson 312 system – Peterson Pipe Notes

petersonpipenotes.org

 

[Lost Somnambulist]

I would like to thank everyone here taking the time to share your thoughts. After doing a little research and only coming up with more questions, I knew it would be an interesting can of worms to open.

 

[sablebrush52]

Thanks for the link. I had found it earlier, but many of the links aren't valid any longer and the photos that are visible aren't the close up, detailed comparisons that would help my mind. I'm a give me more data kind of person. Question every detail was hammered into me long ago.
I 100% agree about "The rest is interesting, but not essential." comment. It is still intriguing to delve into a little history, famous and infamous.

My father was an aerospace engineer, so critical thinking and a healthy skepticism was ingrained in me at an early age.

I looked at the grain pattern. Stamps are easy to fake. Grain patterns are not. So when photos of pipes sold on eBay later turned up on eBay with an Astley’s stamp, EXACTLY the same shape and grain pattern, that removed any doubt.

 

[Lost Somnambulist]

My father was an aerospace engineer, so critical thinking and a healthy skepticism was ingrained in me at an early age.

I looked at the grain pattern. Stamps are easy to fake. Grain patterns are not. So when photos of pipes sold on eBay later turned up on eBay with an Astley’s stamp, EXACTLY the same shape and grain pattern, that removed any doubt.

Critical thinking does seem to be a dying art. I did notice matching grain patterns in the photos in the link. That didn't stop my brain from wanting more, even if it should have been enough. I find myself, after receiving a pipe or other unique items purchased online, going back to the original photos and matching patterns and details with what is in my hand.
I'm setting here going through a Critical Thinking and AI course right now. Getting old, but still learning!

 

[RustiePyles CPG]

I had no idea that any of that was going on with “Astley’s” pipes.

 

[Lost Somnambulist]

I had no idea that any of that was going on with “Astley’s” pipes.

Nor did I until I started attempting to learn more about this one. You'd think a nice old pipe could escape such controversy, but alas it appears that would be a no.