Are Liverpools This Rare Nowadays?

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Bax Burley

Jul 20, 2021
I can find lots of new Canadian shapes. I have some nice Lovats. I have a great Lumberman. But when browsing new pipe listings on the big sites, Liverpools are few and far in between. Ropp makes a few, but they're all really short. Savinelli has one here and there. I find some mislabeled Liverpools. (There's a Kaywoodie Liverpool at P&C, but the stem is as long as the shank. Not a Liverpool! Savinelli calls the 706 a Liverpool. But it's all stem!)

Who makes the best new Liverpool these days? Savinelli? Do you consider the Savinelli 707KS a slightly bent Liverpool, or just a billiard?


Preferred Member
Nov 26, 2018
Almost typed "try GPS." Then noticed it was about pipe shape. Peterson had nice Canadian in Deluxe Classic line along with Lovat, but haven't seen Liverpool.
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Preferred Member
Oct 22, 2013
They are out there, not in the numbers that Canadians and Lovats are though. I notice quite often that Liverpools and Lumbermen are mislabeled Canadians, or sometimes billiards. The other day someone was selling "A lovely saddle stem Canadian" on some site or another. You just have to comb through listings and see what is really being offered.
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Preferred Member
Dec 30, 2018
Ya gotta lovat long shanked Canadian lumberman from Liverpool, eh? Helluva guy, never mind that bit with the saddle, things went a bit oval there for a bit, but they came back a-round in the long run. You wood think a guy like that wood be pretty rusticated, what with his craggy sandblasted looks, but he’s actually pretty smooth. 😄


Preferred Member
Feb 21, 2013
Trying to keep the members of the Canadian shape family straight probably keeps the Liverpool and the other shapes a little cloudy in peoples' minds. For most, the long shank is the thing they notice. The oval/round and tapered and saddle stem details are fine points. Most people don't shop for a particular one, I don't think. I'm partial to the Canadian and have two of them.


Preferred Member
Mar 30, 2019
In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
Yeah I thought a Canadian was the family and liverpools and lumbermen where the specific style under the family. But in reality aren't they all just modified Billiards. And by aren't they all I mean not Canadians but all pipes. Blowfish? Just a modified Billiard.
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Preferred Member
Aug 9, 2013
Helena, Alabama
When it comes to pipe style categories, there is no common language. Hell, I've always wondered what other languages call a bulldog. Do they just use the English word, or their own language for the dog, or do they call them something else entirely.
I've heard a rumor that in Italy a Liverpool is called a stupid American. May just be a rumor, but it might explain why a search brings up mixed results. puffy
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Preferred Member
Aug 1, 2012
As the song goes "it's not the leaving of Liverpool that grieves me but my darling when I think of you." Liverpool, lovat, lumberman, etc. are great pipe shapes but not always common as, for example, the majority of people prefer vanilla ice cream. A bit sad for this chocolate fiend actually as vanilla, as nice as it can be, is not my favorite. In fact many of us prefer another of the 31+ flavors. So, by extension, everyone prefers billiards and the rest of the world can just deal. In the end though, it comes down to what sells.

EDIT: I really need to lay off of the Door County cherry brandy...
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Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
Most Lovats these days seem to have longer than accepted stems. But if it was short enough, I'm curious about whether it would be Lovat or Liverpool since a freehand stem is its own beast.
If it had to be one or the other, that stem is technically a saddle like found on a lovat where the liverpool would have a tapered one. The stems length does make it less lovat and more billiard though.
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