Another Dunhill stamp question..

[WorthyStewart]

After a lot of searching around and a lot of thought about doing this I finally decided that this was just about the only way I had to come to some sort of conclusion..
So here's the first picture..as you can see the date at the end of the Made In England and all conventional wisdom points to this being a pipe from the year 1973

Now here's the kicker...if you look at the Dunhill logo and go by the knowns, any time that Dunhill is stamped overtop of London you're now putting this pipe at a much earlier date than 1973..

The issue here is now trying to wrap your head around why there is no patent stamp on the pipe. The reason I'm making this post is because the pipe is a rather unusual and not exactly common. I would post the whole picture of the pipe but this is basically a recent purchase which is why I was wrestling with even making such a post like this and seeming like I'm calling someones credibility into question. (which I'm not trying to do so) I'm just looking for any kind of information or light that anyone might be able to shed on this topic.
Thanks all !

 

[Questionable Source]

Pipe Phil EU?

 

[forciori]

A case for dating this pipe to 1933 can be made by analyzing known manufacturing exceptions from the period. The absence of a patent number, while unusual, can be explained by two documented possibilities:

• Factory Error: John C. Loring's guide confirms that "factory stamping omissions" are a valid reason for a missing patent number on pipes;
• Pipes without an "Inner Tube": Many patents of the time referred to the "Inner Tube" on models that were not fitted with this component, such as certain bent shapes, the associated patent was not stamped.

The presence of the "DUNHILL over LONDON" (used until 1950) stamping corroborates that the pipe belongs to that era, reinforcing the idea that the missing number is an exception.

Furthermore, it should be noted that the hypothesis of the patent being omitted due to a lack of space seems unlikely, as there appears to be ample room for the stamping. However, considering the ambiguities of early dating, other possibilities arise. A "5" could denote 1925 or 1945, just as a "0" could signify 1930, 1940, or 1950. The decisive factor, it seems, may be the pipe's shape. (Pipephil) Shape 343, A° — an inverted, low-slung bowl with a narrow rim and round shank — is characteristic of the 1920s.

For better accuracy, please provide any other stampings, if present.

 

[ssjones]

Put your stamp information into @forciori's Dunhill dating AI tool:

Dating Your Dunhill Pipe Just Got Easier :: General Pipe Smoking Discussion

We're excited to introduce the new Pipedia AI-Powered Dating Assistant, a chatbot designed to help you with your inquiries about Dunhill patent numbers and date codes. It's a complimentary service, but it does have a monthly usage limit (500 messages), so we kindly ask that you use it...

pipesmagazine.com

 

[bayareabriar]

After a lot of searching around and a lot of thought about doing this I finally decided that this was just about the only way I had to come to some sort of conclusion..
So here's the first picture..as you can see the date at the end of the Made In England and all conventional wisdom points to this being a pipe from the year 1973
View attachment 414022
Now here's the kicker...if you look at the Dunhill logo and go by the knowns, any time that Dunhill is stamped overtop of London you're now putting this pipe at a much earlier date than 1973..
View attachment 414025
The issue here is now trying to wrap your head around why there is no patent stamp on the pipe. The reason I'm making this post is because the pipe is a rather unusual and not exactly common. I would post the whole picture of the pipe but this is basically a recent purchase which is why I was wrestling with even making such a post like this and seeming like I'm calling someones credibility into question. (which I'm not trying to do so) I'm just looking for any kind of information or light that anyone might be able to shed on this topic.
Thanks all !

Agreed. Looks like 1933 nomenclature. Let’s see the button of the stem, or the whole pipe for that matter.

 

[forciori]

After a lot of searching around and a lot of thought about doing this I finally decided that this was just about the only way I had to come to some sort of conclusion..
So here's the first picture..as you can see the date at the end of the Made In England and all conventional wisdom points to this being a pipe from the year 1973
View attachment 414022
Now here's the kicker...if you look at the Dunhill logo and go by the knowns, any time that Dunhill is stamped overtop of London you're now putting this pipe at a much earlier date than 1973..
View attachment 414025
The issue here is now trying to wrap your head around why there is no patent stamp on the pipe. The reason I'm making this post is because the pipe is a rather unusual and not exactly common. I would post the whole picture of the pipe but this is basically a recent purchase which is why I was wrestling with even making such a post like this and seeming like I'm calling someones credibility into question. (which I'm not trying to do so) I'm just looking for any kind of information or light that anyone might be able to shed on this topic.
Thanks all !

I hope you don't mind, but I've added your images to the Pipedia guide for future reference. If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to give you credit for the photos. Thank you.

Pipedia Dunhill Dating Guide - Pipedia

pipedia.org

 

[WorthyStewart]

A case for dating this pipe to 1933 can be made by analyzing known manufacturing exceptions from the period. The absence of a patent number, while unusual, can be explained by two documented possibilities:

• Factory Error: John C. Loring's guide confirms that "factory stamping omissions" are a valid reason for a missing patent number on pipes;
• Pipes without an "Inner Tube": Many patents of the time referred to the "Inner Tube" on models that were not fitted with this component, such as certain bent shapes, the associated patent was not stamped.

The presence of the "DUNHILL over LONDON" (used until 1950) stamping corroborates that the pipe belongs to that era, reinforcing the idea that the missing number is an exception.

Furthermore, it should be noted that the hypothesis of the patent being omitted due to a lack of space seems unlikely, as there appears to be ample room for the stamping. However, considering the ambiguities of early dating, other possibilities arise. A "5" could denote 1925 or 1945, just as a "0" could signify 1930, 1940, or 1950. The decisive factor, it seems, may be the pipe's shape. (Pipephil) Shape 343, A° — an inverted, low-slung bowl with a narrow rim and round shank — is characteristic of the 1920s.

For better accuracy, please provide any other stampings, if present.

The only other stamping on the pipe is AJ and its on the side of the date code, which all my other smooths from the patent days have the A on the side of the Dunhill logo.

I know maybe posting the whole pipe could be helpful the stem and button point to a patent era pipe but seeing as how I said about not wanting to look like iim calling someones credibility into question I don't know how to feel about posting the whole pipe because its going to be a dead giveaway then.
As far as using the AI tool it never has worked for me and I have tried multiple times. Maybe a Mac thing?

 

[WorthyStewart]

The finish letter being on the date side and the "J" adds another level of confusion for me..it also looks like the J was maybe added after the other stamping due to the depth compared to the rest of the stamps

 

[forciori]

I'm not sure I fully understand the concern about credibility. Much of the knowledge we have stems from an oral tradition that was only later documented, a trend that continues to some extent even today. There is an inherently speculative nature to this type of dating. After all (perhaps it's a matter of idiom), what is the sense in calling someone's credibility into question when they are working with largely imprecise information, all in an effort to help find an approximate date for an item? In any case, let's proceed.

As for the AI tool, it has monthly usage limits, and unfortunately, it has already reached its quota for the month. It should be up and running again in a few days. In the meantime, the guide is available for manual consultation. My apologies for the inconvenience.

 

[WorthyStewart]

I'm not sure I fully understand the concern about credibility. Much of the knowledge we have stems from an oral tradition that was only later documented, a trend that continues to some extent even today. There is an inherently speculative nature to this type of dating. After all (perhaps it's a matter of idiom), what is the sense in calling someone's credibility into question when they are working with largely imprecise information, all in an effort to help find an approximate date for an item? In any case, let's proceed.

As for the AI tool, it has monthly usage limits, and unfortunately, it has already reached its quota for the month. It should be up and running again in a few days. In the meantime, the guide is available for manual consultation. My apologies for the

The credibility is more on the sellers end is what I meant by that

 

[WorthyStewart]

Button photos as best I could get without breaking out the tripod again

 

[forciori]

Based on the photo of the stem, I can see it's a bent pipe, which means it fits the second hypothesis for the missing patent number.