That's for sure. It was a silly thing to say. If you stand for the Constitution, then you stand for unpopular speech, no matter how repugnant, up until it incites riot or calls for criminal behavior. It's one of the difficult parts of freedom.
American Sniper
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I'd just like to say I never meant any disrespect towards any of you fellows, or your friends and family, who serve(d).
I feel passionately about certain things, as most of us do, and sometimes, I'm compelled to speak up, as most of us are.
I hope I remain in good standing with this crowd. Goodnight all. :
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I feel passionately about certain things, as most of us do, and sometimes, I'm compelled to speak up, as most of us are.
I hope I remain in good standing with this crowd. Goodnight all. :
:
Ok, sparks and woodsroad. I ammend Voltairs original statement because, while I support freedom of speech, any opinion that is presented as fact, I will challenge. Now, if you re-read that post, you will find that in no way do I say that an individual will need to physically defend him/her self, and maybe I wasn't entirely clear; what I meant was, that they should be ready to defend why they are presenting their opinion as a fact instead of the opinion that it is. I'm sorry if my comment lead you to believe that I would violently beat someone because they don't know the difference between fact and opinion, that was not my intention.
Additionally, IMO, it is everyone's responsibility to challenge such statements. To ensure that opinions remain opinions and facts remain facts. This isn't a silly concept, it's how, I believe, we hold ignorance at bay.
Additionally, IMO, it is everyone's responsibility to challenge such statements. To ensure that opinions remain opinions and facts remain facts. This isn't a silly concept, it's how, I believe, we hold ignorance at bay.
War is often brought to us, and we must respond of face potentially dire circumstances. I don't have to give any examples, recent history is providing plenty of them. Now, how we respond is another matter entirely. Our failed Mideast policy is demonstrative of ways we could have avoided bloodshed, but chose to go another route. Had we backed the status quo in Egypt, Iraq and Lybia, there would be a lot less dead people. Granted, the status quo wasn't good in many cases, but it was a damned sight better than what we have in the present. But the current mindset in D.C. prevailed, and we have now effectively dropped the entire Mideast into a vortex to hell. So what is the real racket? War, or what/who causes an apocalypse like this to happen? - my real point being that the racket extends far beyond the outcome that is war.
War is simply a tool available for fixing a number of problems. A bad economy may indeed be a reason to go to war. The need for space or resources is another. Righting real or perceived wrongs may be a cause a war. Hate? Sure! Defense of self or country? Of course? The need to oppress? To throw off oppression? As someone once said, "Peace is the absence of war."
Judging from history, war is the natural state of man, not peace. One goes to war when there is something to be gained. What that something is, may be hard to identify. Think of what you would fight for, then apply that to the world stage. One side is always in the right and both sides know that it is their side.
Indeed, if you are in the middle of a battle, war is noisy. All sorts of deafening racket! Seriously, there are always smart people who know how to profit from strife. Whether in money or land, there is profit in war. Profit is a motivator.
Judging from history, war is the natural state of man, not peace. One goes to war when there is something to be gained. What that something is, may be hard to identify. Think of what you would fight for, then apply that to the world stage. One side is always in the right and both sides know that it is their side.
Indeed, if you are in the middle of a battle, war is noisy. All sorts of deafening racket! Seriously, there are always smart people who know how to profit from strife. Whether in money or land, there is profit in war. Profit is a motivator.
Eastwood has become a uniquely skilled director over the years. As a young actor he played those mythic
cowboy roles where he piled up the villains by the cart load, sometimes literally, and you never had any
doubt he'd slain only the deserving. Eastwood's later films takes a much more profound and philosophical
look at the violence of the world. Boy, that guy ages well too -- eighties and no sign of retiring.
cowboy roles where he piled up the villains by the cart load, sometimes literally, and you never had any
doubt he'd slain only the deserving. Eastwood's later films takes a much more profound and philosophical
look at the violence of the world. Boy, that guy ages well too -- eighties and no sign of retiring.
I understand your point sparks, but given all of the foul remarks by the likes of Michael Moore, et. al., in that moment, I may have responded to the Pink Ass Hipster Tool in much the same way. So, personally, I don't take any issue with the way Bulldog reacted, and it's my opinion that neither should anybody else. We are all just as likely to react in a similar way when someone makes such a statement.
I am more irritated by the number of people who have come out and made some comment (including some of my own family members) that degrade and belittle the sacrifice the Mr. Klye (and all of our service men and women) have made. Most, if not all (my assumption, I haven't actually looked into it), of the people making these comments have never considered serving and never would. They just sit back and wait for a soap box to appear under their feet so they can spout their discontent to the masses with no experience or knowledge in the subject of their disdain.
It seems to me, that those who most often stand up and demand freedom (of any kind) are never the ones to fight for it; but then, when the freedom that they so ardently demand is achieved, they are the first ones to forget, discredit, or disavow the men and women that won them that freedom.
I am more irritated by the number of people who have come out and made some comment (including some of my own family members) that degrade and belittle the sacrifice the Mr. Klye (and all of our service men and women) have made. Most, if not all (my assumption, I haven't actually looked into it), of the people making these comments have never considered serving and never would. They just sit back and wait for a soap box to appear under their feet so they can spout their discontent to the masses with no experience or knowledge in the subject of their disdain.
It seems to me, that those who most often stand up and demand freedom (of any kind) are never the ones to fight for it; but then, when the freedom that they so ardently demand is achieved, they are the first ones to forget, discredit, or disavow the men and women that won them that freedom.
"And I come back to the world and I see all those maggots at the airport, protesting me, spitting. Calling me a baby killer and all kinds of vile crap! Who are they to protest me?! Who are they? Unless they've been me and been there and know what the hell they are yelling about!" ~John J. Rambo
Fictional or not, many vets returning from 'Nam had experiences like this. Even their fellow vets gave them shit for not "winning".
Hell my friend was mobilizing at Ft. Lewis to go to Gulf 1 and his own SISTER was protesting at the gates...
This issue has been going on in this country a long while.
God bless our veterans for KNOWING they may be scorned and pursuing their calling to serve anyway.
Fictional or not, many vets returning from 'Nam had experiences like this. Even their fellow vets gave them shit for not "winning".
Hell my friend was mobilizing at Ft. Lewis to go to Gulf 1 and his own SISTER was protesting at the gates...
This issue has been going on in this country a long while.
God bless our veterans for KNOWING they may be scorned and pursuing their calling to serve anyway.
I just want to chime in here... While this thread has been a bit of a roller coaster, it hasn't been rife with politics, which is good. That said, I expect it to go that route (and be deleted or closed) if we all can't make a conscious effort to keep it to the topic bulldog started, which as I read it was a mini review of the film sprinkled with some social commentary. We've had threads like this before for any number of films in the past, but because this one involves a subject that seems to polarize people (I.e. war), some have posted their opinions regarding the social commentary portion of his post. It is this potion that starts to become a slippery slope for some. Let's make sure we stay on point and don't stray into political views. As a person who abhors confrontation, if I were in bulldog's shoes, I would've bit my lip.
sparks, while I agree that bulldog's post could be viewed as political from the start, I generally try to put myself into others' shoes before I make a decision about a touchy subject just because I have a tendency to see politics everywhere and I don't want to make a knee-jerk reaction. As I said above, I don't think it's political per se, but I can see your point that it could be construed as such. As we have discussed plenty of times before just about anything can be viewed as political in the right light. I'm letting this one coast right now, but I'll be watching and discussing it with the other mods and Kevin for their input. If it we decide it is indeed political, it will be closed/deleted.
All of this said, I support anyone who straps on some boots and fights (or has fought) for our country. This doesn't mean I support all of the foreign policies of this country, only that I support those who get sent to defend them.
-Jason
sparks, while I agree that bulldog's post could be viewed as political from the start, I generally try to put myself into others' shoes before I make a decision about a touchy subject just because I have a tendency to see politics everywhere and I don't want to make a knee-jerk reaction. As I said above, I don't think it's political per se, but I can see your point that it could be construed as such. As we have discussed plenty of times before just about anything can be viewed as political in the right light. I'm letting this one coast right now, but I'll be watching and discussing it with the other mods and Kevin for their input. If it we decide it is indeed political, it will be closed/deleted.
All of this said, I support anyone who straps on some boots and fights (or has fought) for our country. This doesn't mean I support all of the foreign policies of this country, only that I support those who get sent to defend them.
-Jason
Jason I want to thank you for letting this ride. It wobbled a lot, but by and by I got a lot of good out of it. Thank You.
Jason, I honestly had no intention to turn this political at all, and because I didn't think of it in a political way when I wrote it I didn't think it would become something political. I even stopped posting on this thread when I saw the way it was going, and I did not want to have my account banned for getting into a political argument. I just took that he said personal because of all the people I know who have served and I felt that he was insulting them. I never expected this threat to be going on this long or take the roller coster ride it did.
Doc, what I meant & din't post it correctly was, PTSD was called something else in the old days I believe, it existed but wasn't called PTSD. I think.
I don't think they use the term "shell shocked" too often anymore. I think. (& lately at my age, is troublesome at times.)
After a couple adult beverages I should log out, & not be able to post & just read!
I don't think they use the term "shell shocked" too often anymore. I think. (& lately at my age, is troublesome at times.)
After a couple adult beverages I should log out, & not be able to post & just read!
I probably won't watch it because I'm not much into war movies.
I think you can still be a patriot and not agree with the governments decision to engage militarily somewhere. I also think you can have a lot of respect for those who served in those wars you didn't think the nation should've entered.
I think you can still be a patriot and not agree with the governments decision to engage militarily somewhere. I also think you can have a lot of respect for those who served in those wars you didn't think the nation should've entered.
instmp I understood what you meant as a history buff I thought of the term shell shock, and I do believe that their were more cases of PTSD "sell shock" did happen but because of a combination of pride, and just lack of knowledge that were not reported.
I like to think that if he were still alive, Chris Kyle would have responded to both Michael Moore and Seth Rogen with dignity and profound wisdom. From what I have seen and read of him, Chris seemed like a class act. I'm sure Chris has heard idiots like them spewing their un-patriotic crap before and had to deal with it. It would just be nice if he were still alive to put them in their places now. I saw the movie and read the book, and I didn't get the impression that they were trying to push any agenda. I think they were just telling the story of a great American hero.
Mark I believe that is exactly how he would deal with idiots like Moore if he was still alive. I didn't know him but I have heard and seen many thing on him, and do believe he was a great man, who would have dealt with people in a classy way.
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