22/OCT/2023 -- Alaska Air 2059/Horizon E175 from Seattle to San Francisco had to divert to Portland after an off-duty pilot sitting in the jumpseat inside the cockpit tried to reach both Engine Fire handles on the overhead panel, which would cause both engines to stop receiving fuel and shut down.
Alaska Air 2059 / Horizon Air E175 audio
- Thread starter Scottmi
- Start date
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Human beings are usually predictable until they aren’t.
That guy was a commercial jet pilot sitting on a free jump seat. He knew exactly how to shut down all the engines and which handle to pull.
The world is lucky he tried that on some other pilot’s flight.
The USA has 450 Minuteman III nuclear missiles spread out over five states.
Two people sit in each silo that have to simultaneously turn keys spaced quite a ways apart to end life as we know it.
The Russians and Chinese have exactly the same capabilities, and so does North Korea.
And that doesn’t count all the ballistic missile submarines where we hope at least two people must agree to launch.
Have a nice day, because if not one, but two of the wrong people in the wrong place leave the rails it could be sorta bad, you know?
That guy was a commercial jet pilot sitting on a free jump seat. He knew exactly how to shut down all the engines and which handle to pull.
The world is lucky he tried that on some other pilot’s flight.
The USA has 450 Minuteman III nuclear missiles spread out over five states.
Two people sit in each silo that have to simultaneously turn keys spaced quite a ways apart to end life as we know it.
The Russians and Chinese have exactly the same capabilities, and so does North Korea.
And that doesn’t count all the ballistic missile submarines where we hope at least two people must agree to launch.
Have a nice day, because if not one, but two of the wrong people in the wrong place leave the rails it could be sorta bad, you know?
As currently configured in Minuteman for most scenarios the crews of two Launch Control Capsules must all consent to launch (4 people). That also presumes that these people have gotten the correct launch authentication codes from the National Command Authority.
If a one crew went rogue and tried to launch (having also somehow guessed the codes) any one of the other nine LCCs can cancel the launch.
The notion that in the US system only two guys could launch nuclear missiles is Hollywood. Several people in a chain are required to actually launch. It would take only one to stop it.
If a one crew went rogue and tried to launch (having also somehow guessed the codes) any one of the other nine LCCs can cancel the launch.
The notion that in the US system only two guys could launch nuclear missiles is Hollywood. Several people in a chain are required to actually launch. It would take only one to stop it.
Glad I wasn't on that flight. That fool would’ve been beaten within inches of death repeatedly every time he came to.
For very obvious reasons, the exact protocol for missile launch has never been officially published except for America has long stated there are multiple safeguards involving multiple (at least two) persons at every stage of launching a first strike.
So, the President has had a bad day. Both his mistress and his secret gay lover are blackmailing him, and a foreign adversary has compromised him as a traitor, plus his wife is screwing another woman and won’t let him watch, and his creditors are about to foreclose on him, and his doctor has told him he has inoperable lung cancer. He is very screwed.
So he ambles over to the soldier that both think holds the nuclear launch codes, to end it all.
Hollywood or not, when I was a child the Secret Service and the military heavily recruited young Christian boys from the Ozarks who had mothers still living, as secret service and nuclear launch officers and to man nuclear submarines and as “football” carriers.
No devout Amish or Mennonites had ever committed murder, but those sects are conscientious objectors and would never launch.
But Celtic heritage Christians would never allow an unauthorized launch because that would mean the death of their mothers. And if they believed to launch meant a chance to save their mothers they’d turn the key or hand over the codes.
Not to mention we believe hell is real and we might go there, if we do not follow the Master.
The Russians, the Chinese, and the North Koreans have exactly the same problems.
However they screen nuclear launch control, it involves a lot of thought and trust.
Turns out he was on mushrooms. Great example of why "set and setting" are vital considerations if someone is going to ingest such things.
Court docs: Off-duty pilot who tried to shut off engines took psychedelic mushrooms
The off-duty pilot facing 83 attempted murder charges after he allegedly tried to shut off the engines of a plane mid-flight admitted to taking psychedelic mush
katu.com
Ah... "recreational" drugs...
They're harmless
People just have a bit of fun with 'em now and again, that's all.
They're harmless
People just have a bit of fun with 'em now and again, that's all.
It’s always fashionable to blame the unthinkable on booze or drugs.
2009 Taconic State Parkway crash - Wikipedia
That man was sober enough to pass security and sit on a jump seat and knew exactly which levers to pull to activate the engine fire extinguishers.
Every now and again humans “run amok”.
Running amok - Wikipedia
The challenge is to keep designs and systems proof against operator sabatage.
From what I've read, the pilot was "off duty", working for Alaska Airlines, and new, only hired a few months ago. He's got some serious issues.
But then again so to thousands of other people who act in a way that suggests that they are either terminally stupid, at the end of some personal rope, or mentally "somewhere else" like the idiot I encountered on the 5 coming back from Medford a couple of nights ago, when the right lane was being closed by converging traffic cones. That idiot hit the accelerator from behind me as we had almost completely converged into the left lane, and floored it, going onto center divider in an attempt to avoid a collision. The only reason it wasn't a collision is because I know how to drive, and after growing up in LA, am very skilled at combat driving. Oh, and the idiot had no lights on. At least he passed on the final Ashland offramp, headed for points south where he probably went off a cliff in the Siskiyous.
But then again so to thousands of other people who act in a way that suggests that they are either terminally stupid, at the end of some personal rope, or mentally "somewhere else" like the idiot I encountered on the 5 coming back from Medford a couple of nights ago, when the right lane was being closed by converging traffic cones. That idiot hit the accelerator from behind me as we had almost completely converged into the left lane, and floored it, going onto center divider in an attempt to avoid a collision. The only reason it wasn't a collision is because I know how to drive, and after growing up in LA, am very skilled at combat driving. Oh, and the idiot had no lights on. At least he passed on the final Ashland offramp, headed for points south where he probably went off a cliff in the Siskiyous.
As someone who works on airplanes i can attest that pulling the fire handle out will kill the engine by shuffing off the fuel flow, hydraulics and generator but even if he would have pulled it, the fire handle can be reset and the engine can be restarted.
With that said this guy will not be a pilot any longer. The FAA will pull his license and i really do hope he gets punished to the fullest extent of the law.
Now let us not forget the baggage handler in Seattle who managed to start an aircraft, taxi and take off. He managed to do some pretty amazing maneuvers with it as well before crashing on a small island.
The human race is quite the spectacle to behold sometimes.
With that said this guy will not be a pilot any longer. The FAA will pull his license and i really do hope he gets punished to the fullest extent of the law.
Now let us not forget the baggage handler in Seattle who managed to start an aircraft, taxi and take off. He managed to do some pretty amazing maneuvers with it as well before crashing on a small island.
The human race is quite the spectacle to behold sometimes.
2 days before. Connecting the two events is a bit of a stretch. Kind of like blaming something you do today on the bottle of whiskey you downed last weekend.
(If you have small children or grandchildren buy their mother a set of World Book Encyclopedias before they start kindergarten. Since I was four years old I’ve had the habit of looking up the most basic facts about a news item.)
How many commercial flights in the world:
——
According to the latest estimates, there are approximately 100,000 flights per day. This number includes all types of flights, including passenger, cargo, and military aircraft. Passenger flights alone account for over 90,000 flights per day, transporting millions of passengers to destinations all around the world.
——
(30,000 of those flights are in the USA)
A hundred thousand flights means two hundred thousand trained pilots, plus they need relief pilots. Many of those flights use a flight engineer.
In the United States there are 11,500 Air Traffic Controllers and the FAA is seeking anout 3,000 more.
How many commercial planes in the world?
——
June 2022 global fleet size analysis by ch-aviation. The total worldwide fleet size currently counts 28,674 aircraft, with 23,513 active and 5,161 grounded, and we can see a favourable trend over the last three months
——
Each one of those planes requires a highly trained mechanic (service technician) to keep it flying.
Every one of the hundred thousand flights a day requires scheduling and booking and security and baggage handlers and a virtual army of unseen support personnel.
And the weather must cooperate.
There have been no fatalities or injuries in a USA commercial flight since 2009, a new record.
The cheapest new Boeing 737 is about 100 million and the top 777 models are over 400 million,,,,,each.
It is a man made miracle one of those planes doesn’t stack in once a week and give the newspapers a feeding frenzy usually reserved for the death of a Pope.
Pilot sabotage is extremely rare.
The last time it could have happened was last year in China:
en.m.wikipedia.org
But there’s no way to give a pilot the control he must have without also enabling them to crash the plane.
The extremely long term solution is total computer control of the entire flight.
Which would leave the flight still vulnerable, perhaps more so, to some guy who decided to extinguish the power by pulling the fire extinguishers.
How many commercial flights in the world:
——
According to the latest estimates, there are approximately 100,000 flights per day. This number includes all types of flights, including passenger, cargo, and military aircraft. Passenger flights alone account for over 90,000 flights per day, transporting millions of passengers to destinations all around the world.
——
(30,000 of those flights are in the USA)
A hundred thousand flights means two hundred thousand trained pilots, plus they need relief pilots. Many of those flights use a flight engineer.
In the United States there are 11,500 Air Traffic Controllers and the FAA is seeking anout 3,000 more.
How many commercial planes in the world?
——
June 2022 global fleet size analysis by ch-aviation. The total worldwide fleet size currently counts 28,674 aircraft, with 23,513 active and 5,161 grounded, and we can see a favourable trend over the last three months
——
Each one of those planes requires a highly trained mechanic (service technician) to keep it flying.
Every one of the hundred thousand flights a day requires scheduling and booking and security and baggage handlers and a virtual army of unseen support personnel.
And the weather must cooperate.
There have been no fatalities or injuries in a USA commercial flight since 2009, a new record.
The cheapest new Boeing 737 is about 100 million and the top 777 models are over 400 million,,,,,each.
It is a man made miracle one of those planes doesn’t stack in once a week and give the newspapers a feeding frenzy usually reserved for the death of a Pope.
Pilot sabotage is extremely rare.
The last time it could have happened was last year in China:
China Eastern Airlines Flight 5735 - Wikipedia
But there’s no way to give a pilot the control he must have without also enabling them to crash the plane.
The extremely long term solution is total computer control of the entire flight.
Which would leave the flight still vulnerable, perhaps more so, to some guy who decided to extinguish the power by pulling the fire extinguishers.
The wanna crasher---the pilot---is how the mushroom thing came up at all. He's the one who brought it up and "connected the two events" (presumably as some sort of pre-emptive legal defense).
The MD types so far say the drugs could have been contributory in a "hangover" type of way.
In any event, I can't believe commercial pilots aren't better vetted and monitored than this guy. He's a dumpster fire.
I agree...totally unrelated if 2 days before. I had no time the other day and just saw a blurb about it so I added it here mostly for yucks because I remembered seeing this thread. I didn't even realize he was claiming the mushrooms were eaten 48 hours earlier. My fault for not paying closer attention.
PS: He also claims he hadn't slept for 40 hours. If that's true, it would definitely be the cause of an altered state of consciousness...not the mushrooms. I suspect he's exaggerating...or was on speed or something. After a few days or even less without sleep you'll start hallucinating.
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The ole the devil made me do it defense. Either that or like what often happens it's part of a larger narrative. A classic example is the "Twinkie defense", the news made it sound like his defense was literally Twinkies made me do it when the actual fact was the Twinkies were one small part of trying to illustrate that the guy wasn't in his right mind because of the many out of character things he was doing including living off of junk food.
To me it's one of those things.
Some MDs literally are as qualified to answer that question as you or me (being generous to the MD's). Heck how many MDs think pipe smoking is as deadly as cigarette smoking?
How I read in a hangover type of way is it could have contributed to his over all shitty mood. Which if we go by that we might end up outlawing divorce that puts some people in a bad mood for life.
Yeah that's the wtf part of this whole thing. That's also to me the most interesting part to follow. What kind of fall out if any will happen for the people responsible for giving him the keys to a plane? What kind of changes might happen too (as far as the rules about approving a person to fly.)
certainly, sounds more like meth psychosis. The not sleeping and the dissociative state. Also sounds like severe mental illness that could be more naturally occurring. Though it also sounds a bunch like b.s. and excuses on par with my dog ate my homework.
True story time
The Rosebud School House in Johnson Township closed as a one room schoolhouse in 1952 but was kept as a community building for over thirty years.
When I was a kid there was a 4-H Chaper there.
I’d say there never were more than a dozen or so kids in that 4-H
One boy shot and killed his twin brother in shed when we were all about 12 years old.
It was dismissed as a terrible accident.
Then he hit another boy on the head with a hammer one evening at 4-H, but only a glancing blow, and the adults made him apologize and that was the end of it.
Then when we were graduated from high school the boy broke out of the Hermatige calaboose (which was the last unattended county jail in Missouri) using the help of two brothers that also went to 4-H and they kidnapped, murdered, and burned a neighbor thinking he had money, and shot and left his wife for dead, but she was playing possum and identified them and all three got life without parole.
Then the next year a red headed girl so perfectly beautiful she could have had any multi millionaire she could have wanted, instead married a dairy hand who milked cows on somebody else’s farm.
Instead of divorcing him, they had no kids or properly, her parents were well to do and supportive, she found some other guy to murder her husband and they chopped him into pieces and tossed them out the window as they drove to Arkansas, where they got caught.
He got life without parole but she was insanely beautiful and blamed it all on him so they let her out after only a few years.
Five of the Rosebud 4-H were cold blooded murderers and two were pied piper ringleader types that got others in on the murders, and two were murder victims.
What did they have in common?
The two ringleaders were adopted at birth, from bad surroundings it was said.
I knew all those kids.
There was one big difference I always saw.
When the rest of us said the pledge to the flag we meant it. When we talked to older people it was yes, sir or no ma’am.
When an adult said to do something we did it and didn’t look sideways. We minded our manners. (Of course we might have all been killed by our own mothers otherwise. )
They were always sassy and irreverent and didn’t mind until after they rolled their eyes or said something under their breath.
The ringleaders might have been born bad but none of them had mothers that cracked the whip.
The Rosebud School House in Johnson Township closed as a one room schoolhouse in 1952 but was kept as a community building for over thirty years.
When I was a kid there was a 4-H Chaper there.
I’d say there never were more than a dozen or so kids in that 4-H
One boy shot and killed his twin brother in shed when we were all about 12 years old.
It was dismissed as a terrible accident.
Then he hit another boy on the head with a hammer one evening at 4-H, but only a glancing blow, and the adults made him apologize and that was the end of it.
Then when we were graduated from high school the boy broke out of the Hermatige calaboose (which was the last unattended county jail in Missouri) using the help of two brothers that also went to 4-H and they kidnapped, murdered, and burned a neighbor thinking he had money, and shot and left his wife for dead, but she was playing possum and identified them and all three got life without parole.
Then the next year a red headed girl so perfectly beautiful she could have had any multi millionaire she could have wanted, instead married a dairy hand who milked cows on somebody else’s farm.
Instead of divorcing him, they had no kids or properly, her parents were well to do and supportive, she found some other guy to murder her husband and they chopped him into pieces and tossed them out the window as they drove to Arkansas, where they got caught.
He got life without parole but she was insanely beautiful and blamed it all on him so they let her out after only a few years.
Five of the Rosebud 4-H were cold blooded murderers and two were pied piper ringleader types that got others in on the murders, and two were murder victims.
What did they have in common?
The two ringleaders were adopted at birth, from bad surroundings it was said.
I knew all those kids.
There was one big difference I always saw.
When the rest of us said the pledge to the flag we meant it. When we talked to older people it was yes, sir or no ma’am.
When an adult said to do something we did it and didn’t look sideways. We minded our manners. (Of course we might have all been killed by our own mothers otherwise.
)They were always sassy and irreverent and didn’t mind until after they rolled their eyes or said something under their breath.
The ringleaders might have been born bad but none of them had mothers that cracked the whip.
Speak of the devil.
This is not some poor hopeless, homeless man. He’s driving a nice late model SUV. He’s slender and well groomed and he decided to commit suicide (or spend all his days in a cell) and take an AR-15 type rifle like mine and 25 million others and kill as many innocent people as he can before the police get him, as they are certain to.
View attachment 256217View attachment 256218
22 dead and other sources report scores more wounded.
He’s pushed everything else off the headlines in the USA, and he spent maybe a thousand dollars to accomplish the villainy.
This guy had a mother, father, maybe siblings and friends and sweethearts or wives and a good life at one time.
These villains don’t have empathy or a conscience or a belief in punishment after death.
They also have no pity on themselves, as well.
This is not some poor hopeless, homeless man. He’s driving a nice late model SUV. He’s slender and well groomed and he decided to commit suicide (or spend all his days in a cell) and take an AR-15 type rifle like mine and 25 million others and kill as many innocent people as he can before the police get him, as they are certain to.
View attachment 256217View attachment 256218
22 dead and other sources report scores more wounded.
He’s pushed everything else off the headlines in the USA, and he spent maybe a thousand dollars to accomplish the villainy.
This guy had a mother, father, maybe siblings and friends and sweethearts or wives and a good life at one time.
These villains don’t have empathy or a conscience or a belief in punishment after death.
They also have no pity on themselves, as well.