Adding Denver to The List of Places I Won't Visit

[brian64]

There are a number of large cities in the USA that are on the path of descent into 3rd world status. Denver appears to be one of them.

‘Feces… Prostitutes… Needles’: Businessman At Odds With City Over Health Hazards

DENVER (CBS4)– One businessman in Denver’s Five Points neighborhood is being fined by the city for his refusal to pick up human waste. He believes the problem goes deeper than just what’s happening on the sidewalk outside his business.

“There’s food, trash, drug deals. In the alley, we get the defecation, drug needles,” he told CBS’s Dominic Garcia.

It’s an issue that now has him at odds with the City of Denver. Bazyar, president and an owner of FORETHOUGHT.net, says he and his staff have stopped cleaning up the mess. He calls it a health hazard that they’re not equipped to deal with. Bazyar says the problem stems from the city not enforcing laws so they should clean it up.

“If the city’s not going to enforce laws against trespassing, or camping, or public defecation and just make me bare the cost of these problems that’s just not right,” he told CBS4.

But the City of Denver disagrees and has recently cited Bazyar. A city spokesperson says if it’s on his property, it’s his responsibility. They added that he can receive additional citations for each day the debris is not cleaned up.

'Feces... Prostitutes... Needles': Businessman At Odds With City Over Health Hazards

One businessman in Denver's Five Points neighborhood is being fined by the city for his refusal to pick up human waste. He believes the problem goes deeper than just what's happening on the sidewalk outside his business.

denver.cbslocal.com

 

[verporchting]

Denver is a nice city. Bad neighborhoods exist in every city worldwide. Can’t throw away the baby with the bath water, but that’s just my opinion. You’re free to dislike it of course.

 

[brian64]

Bad neighborhoods exist in every city worldwide.

True...but they're not all governed in the same manner.

 

[verporchting]

For what it’s worth Five Points is nasty though. Been there, didn’t love it.

 

[brian64]

The point here to me is that the city is fining this business owner over it. Apparently the taxes he pays aren't enough for him to expect the city to deal with shit like this. Is he supposed to hire private security to deal with it? And if he did, what kind of trouble would that get him into?

Also, if this was an isolated, abnormal thing it would be different...but stories...and policies...like this are becoming more and more common in many cities.

 

[sablebrush52]

“If the city’s not going to enforce laws against trespassing, or camping, or public defecation and just make me bare the cost of these problems that’s just not right,” he told CBS4.

"bare the problem"? They have a literacy problem for sure.

I don't know about Denver, but sidewalks are the city's concern here.

 

[brian64]

"bare the problem"? They have a literacy problem for sure.

Bare and bear are a bear for many to get right...barely ever used correctly...can't bear to see that kind of pore poor grammar.

Some people are just homophonic.

 

[BROBS]

"bare the problem"? They have a literacy problem for sure.

I don't know about Denver, but sidewalks are the city's concern here.

Exactly and if it’s on his property then technically it is his responsibility whether he likes it or not. Just like if a child drowns in your pool while you’re gone and your yard wasn’t secured.

The only solution is to have a fence or enforce security in the area. The cost of having a business in a metropolitan area like Denver. Try going to Seattle the problem is 10x worse there IMO.

 

[brian64]

Just like if a child drowns in your pool while you’re gone and your yard wasn’t secured.

Do you really consider that to be a valid analogy here? Ordinances requiring pool fences are common...but what ordinance is this business owner violating?

The only solution is to have a fence or enforce security in the area. The cost of having a business in a metropolitan area like Denver.

Really? Interesting. Makes the case for not doing business there.

So apparently issues such as trespassing, public defecation, littering (including things like needles) are the business owner's responsibility to "enforce" against. If he does attempt that just watch the trouble he'd get into.

 

[olkofri]

Looks like another 'progressives'-run city hall gone broke and trying to scrounge money by fining everyone to get back in the black.

 

[BROBS]

What I’m saying is if it’s a public area, then no he’s not responsible. If it’s private property he has to make some effort to keep people off the property. Why do you think buildings have security guards and not police officers?

not trying to argue that’s it’s not bullshit... just the facts.

 

[brian64]

Looks like another 'progressives'-run city hall gone broke and trying to scrounge money by fining everyone to get back in the black.

What happened to their MJ tax windfall there? Or are they not taxing that?

 

[brian64]

What I’m saying is if it’s a public area, then no he’s not responsible. If it’s private property he has to make some effort to keep people off the property. Why do you think buildings have security guards and not police officers?

Sure...if they come inside the building. But if people are committing these acts outside his front or back door...especially at a business, as opposed to a private residence...then I must disagree. IMO it's perfectly reasonable for him to expect the city to deal with a situation like that.

And fining him over it is total BS.

 

[olkofri]

Sure...if they come inside the building. But if people are committing these acts outside his front or back door...especially at a business, as opposed to a private residence...then I must disagree. IMO it's perfectly reasonable for him to expect the city to deal with a situation like that.

And fining him over it is total BS.

Indeed. Plus, let's be real: unless he's Rambo, which business owner is gonna come out and challenge a bunch of burly blackguards high on drugs? Or sleep by the business door when it's after hours?

 

[lukasstrifeson]

Lol what a perfect opportunity for the OK BOOMER meme ? then again this whole forum is basically a prompt for that.

To address subject in the article: many metropolitan cities have laws stating that it is the business's responsibility to keep their section of the sidewalk clean and clear. Mostly business around here hose down their sidewalks every morning. Just like some neighborhoods have rules about your front lawn/back yard and how trimmed it needs to be etc etc. You break a rule, you pay the fine; that should be simple enough.

To address the urge to swear off an entire city based on one poorly written article on a slow news day is... Well let's just say I don't like to talk about things I don't have a comprehensive idea about.

PS: As an aside, when the VICE offices first opened in Williamsburg (early 2000s), a particular shelter-challenged neighborhood roamer used to hold them hostage everyday: $1 and I'll take my shit elsewhere. LOL this story reminded me of that. Again, cost of doing business in certain areas.

 

[brian64]

To address subject in the article: many metropolitan cities have laws stating that it is the business's responsibility to keep their section of the sidewalk clean and clear. Mostly business around here hose down their sidewalks every morning. Just like some neighborhoods have rules about your front lawn/back yard and how trimmed it needs to be etc etc. You break a rule, you pay the fine; that should be simple enough.

Sure...that's based on normal, reasonable debris and cleaning situations...not the type of shit he's dealing with. And where is the line drawn? If it gets twice as bad will the city then have to deal with it? Three times as bad?

To address the urge to swear off an entire city based on one poorly written article on a slow news day is... Well let's just say I don't like to talk about things I don't have a comprehensive idea about.

Again...this type of situation is becoming more and more common...and the only thing that has any impact on changing the way these cities are governed is when they are losing tourist dollars over it. That's the point of saying I won't visit there. This has become a real issue in some cities, such as SF, where some organizations have decided to stop having conventions there due to this type of shit.

Hopefully he can sell his business and move away. That's what needs to happen...the productive people need to leave when they are not valued or wanted.

 

[mso489]

Not just the cities. Many once thriving rural towns, the store fronts begin to close, then collapse. The post offices and schools close. Jobs are mostly elsewhere or on the road. Young people leave not out of wanderlust but because they cannot otherwise support themselves. Blame is more diffuse, but the lost community is the same.

 

[brian64]

You break a rule, you pay the fine; that should be simple enough.

Also, regarding your profound point there...why is it that you don't think the people committing these acts should be held to the same standard? Why are the "rules" they are breaking not enforced?

Allow me to answer that: because those people don't have any money. Dealing with them costs the city money...but they can fleece the business owner for more of his dollars...so in that manner the vagrants are actually generating revenue for the city.

 

[lukasstrifeson]

Sure...that's based on normal, reasonable debris and cleaning situations...not the type of shit he's dealing with. And where is the line drawn? If it gets twice as bad will the city then have to deal with it? Three times as bad?
...
Again...this type of situation is becoming more and more common...and the only thing that has any impact on changing the way these cities are governed is when they are losing tourist dollars over it. That's the point of saying I won't visit there. This has become a real issue in some cities, such as SF, where some organizations have decided to stop having conventions there due to this type of shit.
...
Hopefully he can sell his business and move away. That's what needs to happen...the productive people need to leave when they are not valued or wanted.

Lol it appears we have gotten off on the wrong foot. I was merely trying to point out that A) the original article is of such poor quality (and lacks sufficient significant information) to draw any serious conclusions from B) to generalize and boycott an entire city for one "article" is somewhat ridiculous. I actually agree with you that money is the only way to make an impact ("vote" if you will) in these Capitalist Times, just thought you should give Denver another chance.

Also, regarding your profound point there...why is it that you don't think the people committing these acts should be held to the same standard? Why are the "rules" they are breaking not enforced?

Allow me to answer that: because those people don't have any money. Dealing with them costs the city money...but they can fleece the business owner for more of his dollars...so in that manner the vagrants are actually generating revenue for the city.

I think it's a little more nuance than you're implying here just to make a point, but fair enough; this is a problem with law enforcement efficiency anywhere. But this is not a problem limited to Denver.

 

[davek]

Getting kinda political here.

I will say that I live in the suburbs of Cincinnati and that the entire city was getting bad for a while downtown. Now, areas are getting much better and being reclaimed... or gentrified. Pick your point (of view). However, the 'burbs of Cincinnati have always been mostly pretty nice.

I think you see blight in any city, and the suburbs are usually quite different, but they need the city.