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clickklick

Lifer
May 5, 2014
1,700
212
So, if I get a metal lathe and pump out a ton of chubby pokers, sometimes put a ring or other adornment around the shank, and give it a thick but pretty colored stem, I can be a successful pipe maker?
What is the appeal? Anyone?
I don't dislike pokers, but when I look at someone's body of work and it is the same thing over and over . . . man I need a metal lathe! I could pump out pokers 5 per week just on the weekends!

 

mcitinner1

Lifer
Apr 5, 2014
4,043
24
Missouri
Click, I totally agree with your train of thought. I guess people like them, but they're not for me. Where's the art? I guess some people think they're attractive, but not I. Look at the Dagner brand, and that's one of their best sellers. But they have them made for them, (I forget where).

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
That's the classic conundrum. Writers can spend a lifetime endeavoring to create a great literary novel, or they can get in harness on genre fiction (some of which is extremely well crafted) and churn out and sell quantities of books that will give them a good living. The number of people who can do this with literary fiction in the U.S. is probably counted in the tens. Everyone else teaches or delivers mail (etc.). So with pipe makers. Mogen Johansen, who carves Johs pipes, is said to work incredibly fast, compulsively you'd say, and churns out scores of pipes a week, and does these with some originality and good craftsmanship. Not everyone could, or would choose to, live like that. Each to the devil his own way, as some old churchman said. Keep doing what you're doing, clickklick; you're doing some handsome pipes.

 

aldecaker

Lifer
Feb 13, 2015
4,407
42
While I appreciate the practical aspects of pokers, I do not find the shape attractive at all. I suppose the shape can feature some very nice grain, but other than that, the aesthetics just aren't there for me.

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
That's the classic conundrum. Writers can spend a lifetime endeavoring to create a great literary novel, or they can get in harness on genre fiction (some of which is extremely well crafted) and churn out and sell quantities of books that will give them a good living. The number of people who can do this with literary fiction in the U.S. is probably counted in the tens. Everyone else teaches or delivers mail (etc.).
That's so true MineSweeper!
It would have been way cool to have Charles Bukowski as your mailman!
“I have one of two choices—stay in the post office and go crazy . . . or stay out here and play at writer and starve. I have decided to starve.” With these infamous words, Bukowski quit the post office for good at the age of 49, and wrote his first novel within a month.
hqDlUBs.png
This cartoon also speaks to that reality,

there could be a similar one for many pipemakers methinks...
dayjobs-blog-20-281-29-jpg.jpg

So,

an excellent point there MSO.

:clap:
clickklick,

I don't understand the appeal either.
But success is another matter,

if it is to be "successful" by being a fly-by-night flash in the pan through making stale redundancies for the beardbro hipster crowd, then I guess that can be rather easily had as evidenced by the large throng of people out there catering to such a market, I think they will be largely forgotten in the future though, and their pipes will be bargain-basement estates littering ebay like so much flotsam & jetsam...
...then it's not really success.

imo
The quick buck crowd vs. the principled artist has been a longstanding tradition as MSO so keenly pointed out.
:puffy:

 

lifesizehobbit

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 23, 2015
913
386
Would you be happy making pokers?
What R has said.
However - what's your real goal? Is it to produce artisan quality pipes knowing that this may never generate a sustainable level of income? Is it to establish your brand as a pipe maker in the standard shapes hoping to step into full factory production for a living?
Motivation - is pipe making a creative outlet that you do not care about the level of income, or is it a true career pursuit?
While I am a "white collar" professional by day (which pays my bills and sustains my hobbies), I am not truly happy unless I'm working on a personal photography project, or my other creative outlet comedy (yes, I do clean stand-up comedy). Both of these outlets have generated modest amounts of money for me, but I cannot see myself at 56 years old making either of these a full-time commitment. Which gets us back to R - would making pokers with metal bands make you happy? Why not both? If you already have a small wood lathe, what about acquiring a small metal lathe?
Best on your decision.

 

danhester

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jan 17, 2016
249
1
I'm not a huge fan of the super stubby shaping in general. The poker shape has grown on me, and I like sitting pipes, but it's not my favorite shape, and I don't like the short, stubby stems. I guess I like the more conservative, classic shapes.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,632
44,859
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
What Hobbit said. What's your goal? I love the arts and am one out of those 10,000 who has made a career at it. But I chose to work in commercial art, films and television, as a way do do art while paying the bills. A lot of very talented people make that choice. Others do what Hobbit has done, found a mainstream career that sees to life's necessities while he continues to pursue his bliss on the side.

Plenty of high end artisan pipe makers are making the same decision, adding a lower cost line to pay the bills, rather than focusing on high end work. Face it, most smokers aren't going to shell out $700 or more on a pipe. That's a niche market within a niche market.

 

shutterbugg

Lifer
Nov 18, 2013
1,451
21
I have one poker, I never smoke it because I can't stand the shape. I keep it because it was a basket pipe and although it's not a bad smoker, it is worthless to sell. It reminds me never to settle for something you don't like merely because it's cheap.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
I think I could guess the factory pipe and specific shape that has gotten under clickklick's skin. I don't completely disparage the poker shape because of that, though to see so many on the market at once does diminish their charm. The poker is what I always see as the snowman shape, since in cartoons that is usually the shape pipe put in the mouthes of snowmen. When it isn't geared up into mass production, it is a pleasantly homely shape that can accommodate a big bowl on a relatively light weight pipe, and it's easy for old fellas to grasp and smoke. In my accumulations of too many pipes, I have only two -- a straight poker and a cherrywood which I take as a sub-set. The poker is a La Rocca with down home carved rustication. The cherrywood is a Parker blast bent, that despite the poker/cherrywood shape has a certain British dapper quality to it, compact and jaunty. Pokers aren't my thing, but I don't write them off. A third pipe of mine is a sort of pot/poker carved of Mountain Laurel that I put in a different category -- it's asymmetrical and distinct and unusual, its own category.

 

ejames

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
3,916
22
I like pokers but really do not understand the explosion of new pipe makers that seem to make only pokers. I like a nicely done extension on a shank or stem but hate those damn thick rings some put on their pipes. Off the top of my head I can think of only one new pipe maker who specializes in pokers who makes one I really like. No rings or other doo-dads but a well made pipe with nice handcut stems which are usually Cumberland. Don't like short stubby pokers,or any other short stubby shape for that matter.

 

stvalentine

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 13, 2015
808
13
Northern Germany
...and don´t forget they´ve got to be HUGE! Well, like all things these days it needs to be bigger, higher, faster and more expensive. :roll:

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
I used to have a nice Stanwell black bamboo poker...
blackbamboo-1280x854-600x400.jpg
...which was quite elegant.
When done right a poker can be beautiful.
Unfortunately,

the market is awash in poorly executed examples and it seems to be in expansion.
I blame the internet!

:)

 

hawky454

Lifer
Feb 11, 2016
5,338
10,220
Austin, TX
It seems to me that the Dagner's are responsible for the recent poker crave, they're so hot right now. I have a couple pokers myself but they're more classic pokers, not the big ass, in your face, hipster poker...
Get a metal lathe, it may be worth your while.

 

eriksmokes85

Starting to Get Obsessed
Sep 24, 2015
172
0
I think it all comes down to what a maker feel the smokers are comfortable paying. I mean think about it, if every pipe artist made pipes and priced them at 400$ or more no one could really afford the hobby. Yes you may not feel like they are good looking or great pipes, but at the end of the day what matters to a mass of pipe smokers, at least in my area, is does it smoke well, can I afford it and does it appeal to me. Clik your pipes are rad, no doubt, but could I afford one? Probably not. Would I feel comfortable resting it on my workbench while I'm ripping apart a mountain bike fork? For sure not! There is a market for every maker. Yes I agree that the market is getting flooded with pokers, but think of it this way, They must be popular if the market is still getting flooded with them. Just my 2 cents, not trying to offend or piss anyone off. Happy piping!

 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
5,491
13,920
I cringe every time I see how low the threshold is these days to qualify as "artisan caliber" work. Much of it is truly dreadful. And I consider those who promote it as such as either ignorant or disingenuous (i.e. greedy).
That said, the PipeWorld has always had people who specialized in picking low-hanging fruit. Trying to take advantage of the pipe smoking public's gullibility and general lack of knowledge is where all the gadget pipes came from. The patent registers are filled with them, and bizarre designs appear in catalogs a hundred years ago.
But we're still here. And the best pipes the planet has ever known are being made today.
The reason? SOME percentage of those who start to smoke a pipe, regardless of WHY they start, stick with it. Always. And after a while they leave the silliness and misguided stuff behind. They outgrow it.
Then, the next powered-by-profit fad or trend comes along, and the cycle repeats itself.
It's just the hobby's gigantic heart slowly beating. If it ever stops, the hobby dies.

 

pipesinperu

Starting to Get Obsessed
Apr 21, 2014
189
9
I don't know much about the technical side of pipemaking, so take this with a grain of salt, but... going by your comments (and using a little common sense), the poker is easier/quicker to make and hard(er) to f@!# up for newbie pipemakers, who can then sell it at a price point just above (or equal to, in some cases) factory pipes. So that's the appeal from the pipemaker's perspective.
From the buyer's perspective, I guess it's having a handmade pipe for a relatively low price, for those who either can't or have a hard time justifying the price that some of the more established artists (rightfully, IMO, but that's a whole other thread...) charge.
BUT. I totally agree with you. This chubby poker stuff is something I've observed over the past few years, and it's gotten to the point where it's totally destroyed any appeal pokers might have for me (although MLC's Stanwell is extremely elegant, something that can't be said about many pokers these days). I guess if it keeps the hobby growing and changing, as georged notes, and some guys get to have pipes that they like at a price they're willing to pay, than I can just choose to ignore it, but again, as georged says, I do feel like some parties involved know better and must be aware they're "taking advantage" of others who don't know better.
At any rate, I can't tell any of those makers apart, and as many have said, no one will remember them in even five years' time, when their pipes will be bundled five to a lot like Magic Inches or the like, and no one will want them because tastes will have changed once again and moved on to something else.

 
I can't say whether these pokers are great smokers, but there is a cult of biker/trucker/working man types that are buying the hell out them. I run into someone occasionally that loves them big ass poker pipes. Good guys. And hey, if someone wants to only make pokers and has a niche in that market... Great!
There are jeweler who only make one thing, solitaire rings, nugget pendants, crosses of gold pendants. They are not eating into my market, because they have a whole separate genre of jewelry consumers. Eh, even painters who only make watercolor bears or mailboxes. Ceramics who only make mugs. It's a genuine thing. But, if it comes to pissing contest between me and them, I'd just walk away. I'm not God of art nor jewelry. And, I damn sure ain't God of pipes. I'll leave the pissing contests between pipemakers to that other forum site.
And I consider those who promote it as such as either ignorant or disingenuous

That made me chuckle a bit. Wiz wiz. :puffy:

 
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