What's The Cure for Briar -and does it Make A Difference?

[Choatecav]

Gadzooks, man, this has been an educational thread.

First, I appreciate @Dreadlock Holmes for asking it in such a clear and concise manner and then after that..... it was like attending a briar wood clinic!!
Even @georged post on grip time and intensity was swell (although as I read it I kept thinking about what the kids used to say when they walked into the restrooms at school and said, "If you shake it more than three times, you're playin' with it."). Excellent responses by all....

That said, we all know that every commodity out there (pipes, cigars, saddles, guns, pocket watches, etc.) has the slice of owners who always tout that "The old ways were the best ways." and "Sure don't make 'em like they used to."

Sometimes there is some truth in it but no one should make sweeping statements like he did. That is if he wants to retain a shred of integrity.

 

[Sig]

Just what I've picked up from here is that there is a ton of briar growing out there. Old gnarly heath trees just littering these places. The problem is mainly two things; the demand for briar is a mere fraction of what it was 100 years ago, and because it is not as lucrative it is hard to get people to harvest it. This I picked up from "Father the Flame" (movie) There are other factors also, I'm sure. But, I am not so sure this has anything to do with lower quality briar nowadays.

My question is, why do people think that these pipes being made now are using inferior briar?

"Quality" is completely a subjective thing. But, I would hold many of my new custom made pipes up against the old factory mades any day.

Are some pipemakers using bad briar... I'm sure they are, whatever one means by inferior or "bad." Not every pipemaker is going to hold the same concept of "quality."

Also, someone buying only less than $150 factory made pipes, really shouldn't have a say in these discussions.

This whole discussion is based on an assumption, and paints the whole scene with a wide brush. Sounds to me like something a B&M owner would engage in. I try not to talk to much to B&M owners, but I like to visit these shops when I travel. I'll drop a few bills on them to help support them, but I get along better with them when I don't talk to them.
And, I am sure that there are some very wise and intelligent B&M owners out there. But, I don't think one of these guys are going to be making youtube videos.

In the discussions I've had with a few guys on this topic, and the reason I put "good briar" in quotes in my last post, is good briar means briar that makes money. As far as smoking qualities, who knows, but angel hair straight grain will always be "better briar" than a bald chunk of wood full of pits. Most people think that you can't tell if a piece of wood is going to be visually appealing, maybe so, but I've been told it's easier to know if the piece of wood is going to be bad. Grain structure and pattern on the outside can say alot about a chunk of wood.
That said, I have pipes with very nice grain that I paid for. Some are great, some are not. But I have MANY more bald ass, pit filled pipes that smoke great.
And these same guys, who are currently making $600+ pipes, tell me that "good briar", ie pretty briar is absolutely not as available as it was years ago, at any price.
There could be a lot of reasons, and no one agrees on all the reasons, and maybe they are crazy, but that's what they say. I'm not going to name drop until I ask them. Many here have their pipes and I don't want to start drama.

 

[telescopes]

Bad briar =
1. inside pits that can easily char in the bowl and begin a burnout;
2. something unusual with the amount of sap that is left in after curing;
3. no grain structure whatsoever to speak of, blah, blah, blah...

4. and last, but just as important, briar that has been smoked so many times that it is all but useless and fails all attempts to clean it. This briar pipe, however, if sold on eBay and if it looks especially beat up, might interest certain smokers who shall remain nameless, LOL.

 

[Briarcutter]

pretty briar is absolutely not as available as it was years ago, at any price.

I wouldn't doubt doubt that a bit. I've got a supply and havent purchased in many years but I will tell you,even I seen the quality of,"pretty" wood getting harder and harder to get years ago. No idea what its like in today's market.

That said, I have pipes with very nice grain that I paid for. Some are great, some are not. But I have MANY more bald ass, pit filled pipes that smoke great.

Spot on. Many think the straighter the grain, the better smoking quality. In my experience, pretty wood can smoke great but ugly wood,ie pits and no grain can smoke just as good. All the pipes I smoke are either blasted or rusticated and I'm a finicky smoker.

 

[Briarcutter]

2. something unusual with the amount of sap that is left in after curing;

I'd agree with this 100%. As for the pits no. I won't sell any like that because that is my excuse to smoke them. But, I'll tell you the ones I've smoked like that smoked great and no burn out. I had one specifically, I really liked the shape but the chamber was a total mess. I really thought it would explode first smoke. I've smoked that pipe for probably twenty years,and still do and no problem but I still would sell one like that. Reputation is worth more than the risk and I'd loose the chance at another pipe! I just toss them in the bin to finish it for myself or experements. Would I sell my one with the chamber full of pits, absolutely not, would I buy one full of pits, no.
IMO, burnouts are mostly caused by the smoker. However, I've found briar that looks absolutely stunning. Then....some tiny pit evolved, so ill sand it out right? Well sometimes, but I've found many that upon sanding evolved into a huge hole, filled with a bark like material, big enough for a large rasin to fit. Totally blows your day. Now, if that was hiding in the chamber under a very thin wall of perfectly good looking briar, that would be a problem and the pipe maker would have never seen it.

 

[OzPiper]

4. and last, but just as important, briar that has been smoked so many times that it is all but useless and fails all attempts to clean it. This briar pipe, however, if sold on eBay and if it looks especially beat up, might interest certain smokers who shall remain nameless, LOL.

Nothing that a good scrubbing with steel wool won’t fix

 

[telescopes]

Palm Springs is an especially windy area. Think the midwestern plains and then add two mountain ranges that extend both north and south for hundreds of miles and are separated by a few miles. Add the Pacific Ocean wind pushing inward and being funneled through that opening and you get gale like gusts that literally topple 18 wheelers and push 1000 pound motorcycles into other lanes. There are of course non windy areas, but .... when smoking your pipe in the windy zones, the cooling effect on one side of the pipe can drive the heat to the cooler edge and of course the wind just heats up the pipe by stirring up the ember. This is the perfect condition to discover if the pipe has flaws. I know. The three pipes I had that created burnouts were smoked in those zones. All three were new pipes that had no cake buildup to protect them. I learned not to smoke my pipe in those areas - which was problematic because I spent a lot of time in those areas. Anyway, 40 years of pipe smoking and the only pipes that ever burned out were in the windy areas and were smoked new without any cake. Had I not been so stubborn, I could have probably saved them by building up the cake at home before smoking them in gale force winds.

 

[Peterson314]

If the big secret is concocting herb, liquor, and wine and then swabbing the wood 2 or 3 times a week, I'm a pipe-making legend.

 

[Briar Lee]

If briar quality influences the taste of the pipe smoke, which not one maker of pipes during the Golden Age of pipe smoking when a hundred times more pipes were sold (and used up and tossed) than today doubted, all believed it did, then the key to buying a good used pipe today is

1. How much did the brand cost new (you can’t cheat customers for long)

2. How many times was it smoked (they all go sour in time)?

3. Was it Algerian briar, harvested and selected before the Berbers tried to kill all the French occupiers and the French started massacring Berbers by the hundreds of thousands?

4. A true custom made pipe, not from a factory, of the last fifty or so years by an established maker is likely a good smoker.

This is a high condition Bertram 30 Bulldog on sale now on EBay





It will equal any New York City made Marxman or Pre 68 Dunhill Shell of similar condition.

One of the saddest things about life is you get what you pay for in this old sin cussed world full of woe.

 

[Sgetz]

If the briar is so important how come cobs taste so good? That is the question

 

[Sigmund]

Like anything else, people draw conclusions from limited data and decide to believe what they want to believe.

"I have a pipe with lacquer on it. It burns hot. All pipes with a lacquer finish burn hot!"

You could make a list a mile long.

 

[Briar Lee]

If the briar is so important how come cobs taste so good? That is the question

They are all aged (cured) two years and come from the same field and made in the same factory for about fifty years now. Cobs are great smokers, need no break in, but they don’t taste like briar pipes.

 

[Sig]

If the briar is so important how come cobs taste so good? That is the question

I'm pretty sure MOST of us agree that the briar is not nearly as important as the drilling and even the hand feel and shape and comfort of the stem as far as being a good smoker.
Ive always believed, and backed up by many carvers, that briar quality has more to do with the cosmetic attributes and not the specific smoking qualities of the briar itself.
Most pipe collectors I know are about comfort, esthetics and yes, cost. Many high end collectors rate the "quality" of the briar by how much the pipe costs.
Other collectors it's all about the art of hand made, one off pipes. And that is not nothing. Collecting one of a kind pieces of art has been popular sinse humans existed. Smoking qualities aside, some pipes are great pipes just because of who made them, who owned them, history of the manufacturer or some personal reasons of nostalgia.
I personally am a tobacco guy. But, I also like good smoking pipes. Some of my best are cheap basket pipes, some are older factory pipes and some are higher end handmade.
The point is, we are a finicky bunch with varied tastes in tobacco and pipes.
In my opinion it's just as goofy for pipers to look down on people who like high end handmades as it is for others to look down on low end fans.
Also in my experience, the "it's just a vessel to smoke tobacco" guys are more annoying than the "a high end pipe is best" guys.
Hows that for a hot take?

 

[anotherbob]

another thing about vintage pipes. I swear my oldest pipe has become a better smoke. It's from 94 and I also swear the wood feels a tad softer then it did even ten years ago. It seems to smoke sweeter then it did in the past. It's not dramatic but it's certainly noticeable. Musicians notice similar things with vintage instruments and there is science backing up their claims (don't know if that's so with pipes).

Also in my experience, the "it's just a vessel to smoke tobacco" guys are more annoying than the "a high end pipe is best" guys.
Hows that for a hot take?

I think it's one of those things when someone says to me before one of those statements it's way better. For me a high end pipe smokes the best. For me it's just a tool to do a job. You know a personal opinion on taste and personal experience.
One thing I can say with certainty is I've never had two pipes that smoked or tasted the same. As far as cause and effect I really don't know. But it's certainly true. The Cosmic Home Grown is amazing. It's a real favorite now I have to start trying my hand at growing because it's really just great to me, but it tastes terrible and boring in one of my pipes. I haven't finished a bowl of it in that pipe. Which is weird because it really brings out more nuance on certain blends then many other of my pipes.

 

[Sgetz]

I'm pretty sure MOST of us agree that the briar is not nearly as important as the drilling and even the hand feel and shape and comfort of the stem as far as being a good smoker.
Ive always believed, and backed up by many carvers, that briar quality has more to do with the cosmetic attributes and not the specific smoking qualities of the briar itself.
Most pipe collectors I know are about comfort, esthetics and yes, cost. Many high end collectors rate the "quality" of the briar by how much the pipe costs.
Other collectors it's all about the art of hand made, one off pipes. And that is not nothing. Collecting one of a kind pieces of art has been popular sinse humans existed. Smoking qualities aside, some pipes are great pipes just because of who made them, who owned them, history of the manufacturer or some personal reasons of nostalgia.
I personally am a tobacco guy. But, I also like good smoking pipes. Some of my best are cheap basket pipes, some are older factory pipes and some are higher end handmade.
The point is, we are a finicky bunch with varied tastes in tobacco and pipes.
In my opinion it's just as goofy for pipers to look down on people who like high end handmades as it is for others to look down on low end fans.
Also in my experience, the "it's just a vessel to smoke tobacco" guys are more annoying than the "a high end pipe is best" guys.
Hows that for a hot take?

Yes!

 

[Sig]

another thing about vintage pipes. I swear my oldest pipe has become a better smoke. It's from 94 and I also swear the wood feels a tad softer then it did even ten years ago. It seems to smoke sweeter then it did in the past. It's not dramatic but it's certainly noticeable. Musicians notice similar things with vintage instruments and there is science backing up their claims (don't know if that's so with pipes).

I think it's one of those things when someone says to me before one of those statements it's way better. For me a high end pipe smokes the best. For me it's just a tool to do a job. You know a personal opinion on taste and personal experience.
One thing I can say with certainty is I've never had two pipes that smoked or tasted the same. As far as cause and effect I really don't know. But it's certainly true. The Cosmic Home Grown is amazing. It's a real favorite now I have to start trying my hand at growing because it's really just great to me, but it tastes terrible and boring in one of my pipes. I haven't finished a bowl of it in that pipe. Which is weird because it really brings out more nuance on certain blends then many other of my pipes.

My absolute best tasting pipes are older (pre1970) factory pipes. Most were used and a few were NOS.
GBD, Comoys, Barling, Yorkshire, Sassini, Kaywoodie.....all great tasting pipes.
Maybe a decade ago someone on the old Smokers Forums had a bunch of these NOS Irwins, a GBD second for sale.
This one is still unsmoked....for now.
I have 2 others that are great smoking and tasting pipes.
These were "Rum Matured".....if that's not a gimmick I don't know what is.
But, they are very well made. Drilled perfectly, nice finish and the briar is very light and heavily grained on all of them. There are a few fills which I assume is why they are seconds.
This one is called a PAPOOSE.
No clue when they were made, but they were made in England.

 

[brian64]

The cure for briar is meerschaum.

 

[OzPiper]

My absolute best tasting pipes are older (pre1970) factory pipes. Most were used and a few were NOS.
GBD, Comoys, Barling, Yorkshire, Sassini, Kaywoodie.....all great tasting pipes.
Maybe a decade ago someone on the old Smokers Forums had a bunch of these NOS Irwins, a GBD second for sale.
This one is still unsmoked....for now.
I have 2 others that are great smoking and tasting pipes.
These were "Rum Matured".....if that's not a gimmick I don't know what is.
But, they are very well made. Drilled perfectly, nice finish and the briar is very light and heavily grained on all of them. There are a few fills which I assume is why they are seconds.
This one is called a PAPOOSE.
No clue when they were made, but they were made in England.
View attachment 386741

@Sig
That is a beauty.
I’ve mentioned several times that the standards must be much higher in the past.
I have seconds and rejects with barely any visible fills, that would be retailed as firsts today

 

[Sig]

@Sig
That is a beauty.
I’ve mentioned several times that the standards must be much higher in the past.
I have seconds and rejects with barely any visible fills, that would be retailed as firsts today

This Irwins has several very obvious fills. They didn't even try to hide them. Normally a company would at least color match the fills. But not GBD.
The fills on the other 2 have blended in 100% by smoking and handling them.

 

[OzPiper]

This Irwins has several very obvious fills. They didn't even try to hide them. Normally a company would at least color match the fills. But not GBD.
View attachment 386788
View attachment 386789

I have a couple of Comoy rejects/seconds, that weren’t accorded the Comoy stamp on the stummel or stem, where you’d need excellent eyesight to see the fills
So much better value than the vaunted Blue Ribands - which are over-priced (IMO)