What's Up With People Calling It A VaPer And Adding Other Leaf?

lordofthepiperings · Mar 26, 2015

I've noticed it a lot lately. A site will have a blend listed as a VaPer, but then will note that it includes Burley and Oriental and Latakia.
I've only been in the hobby for about five years, but I thought a VaPer meant it was only Virginia and Perique like Escudo or Dunhill's De Luxe Navy Rolls etc.
I actually had the same thing happen with Per Jensen of Mac Baren recently. I posted on Facebook how I wish Mac Baren would do a VaPer and he replied back that they already do in Acadian Perique. I responded that I want a straight Virignia and Perique blend without the Burley Oriental and Black Cavendish that Acadian Perique contains. I got no further response from that.
It'd be nice if they called it a Latakia VaPer or an Oriental VaPer etc. so I'd know to avoid it from the get go.
I guess for now I'll just have to approach a blend that people call a VaPer with caution and do my home work to make sure it doesn't have any Oriental, Turkish, or Latakia in it because as of right now I don't like those leaves.

okiescout · Mar 26, 2015

Until last year I had only smoked aromatics and was totally ignorant about any other tobaccos. Several members on the forum were kind enough to helped get me started into Virginia's and on to VaPer tobacco's which I have really come to enjoy. I looked them up when I started, and read on the forum a great deal about them, but it is confusing when some blends are brought up in the conversation. It probably is not a problem for the experienced smokers of these products.

I know I have been guilty of the same thing in different situations. My apologies to those who have been kind enough to "suffer in silence" my remarks in such a manner.

cortezattic · Mar 26, 2015

lordofthepiperings, I see your point. The way things are going, these descriptions are practically useless for selecting an unfamiliar blend. OTOH, it's so tempting to tweak a good VaPer with a little Burley or Oriental -- the amendments can improve a blend immensely. I think the best bet is to sample small quantities, and let your taste buds be your guide -- if it's good, who cares how it's classified?!

cosmicfolklore · Mar 26, 2015

...or making an aromatic Virginia and burley mix and calling it Modern Virginia.

jitterbugdude · Mar 26, 2015

Ok, we can start renaming things.. Latakia VaPer would be LaVaPer. A VaPer with an Oriental would be VaTurkPer and a VaPer with a Burley.. VaBurPer.....

northernneil · Mar 26, 2015

I try not to get hung up on label's, and try to judge each tobacco on weather or not it tastes good. For example, if you found out Escudo contained burley in a small percentage, likely to help the rate of burn, would you no longer enjoy it because it is not a true VaPer?

daimyo · Mar 26, 2015

if you found out Escudo contained burley

You are a brave man to commit such flagrant heresy. To answer the question though, the problem is usually in reverse. If I find out a blend has burley and I like the blend, then I am happy because many times burly is a deal breaker. I would have an issue though if I ordered a blend listed as Va/Per because I expect them to list things accurately and 19 out of 20 burley blends do not work for me. If a restaurant tells me a soup is a bisque, I expect to be served a bisque.

pruss · Mar 27, 2015

if it's good, who cares how it's classified?!

Agreed. It's also important to recognize that not all Virginias are just Virginias, that there's a whole school of ~~argument~~ debate as to just what constitutes and "English" blend and let's not start on Balkans. These classifications tend to be created by us to group tobaccos that have tastes in the same camp. I think that if a blend is predominantly made up of Va and Per it's safe to call it a VaPer; even if it has small condiment inclusions of other tobaccos. VaPer just rolls of the tongue better than VaPerBurCavOr.
$0.05 in the bucket.
-- Pat

carytobacco · Mar 27, 2015

Classifications are good because it helps the smoker narrow down the selection to choose from.
When I get a new cigar smoker and he walks into a giant humidor, it's overwhelming. He can't possibly try every cigar in there, even over time, to find out which specific ones he likes. So I have them try a couple Dominicans, a couple Hondurans, a couple Nicaraguans, etc. if he comes back and says he didn't really like the Nicaraguan and Honduran cigars, we can eliminate 2/3rds of the humidor and now it's a reasonable amount to choose from when we focus on the Dominicans. I can also still recommend a Nicaraguan to him that might taste like a Dominican. For instance, a cigar with Dominican/Nicaraguan filler and binder inside a Connecticut seed Ecuador-grown wrapper.
It helps me as a tobacconists because now I have a a basis for recommending something to him. Virtually every cigar is "good", to someone.

cosmicfolklore · Mar 27, 2015

Sure, I mean if I can't tell, then so be it, but for those of us with a more discerning taste, it is obvious most of the time that burley is added to a blend, or an oriental. I don't hate orientals or turkish being added. I sort of look for that sometimes, but I want to be warned. And, strong casing is the same. Just put the flavoring on the tin or pouch. I am most disappointed when everything concerning a blend looks to be that it is one thing, and seriously disappointed when it turns out to be not. I might have liked Modern Virginia or Saint James Court, if they'd have just warned me so that I could have expected it, wanted it even for what it was. I still think that MacBaren calling Modern Virginia by that name is deceptive. Folks smoking that stuff thinking it is a Virginia... If they put chicken in my beef burrito, I'd be just as pissed. Wouldn't you?
I think so many times we appreciate these companies for what they do for the community that we let it shade our objectiveness on things like this.

northernneil · Mar 27, 2015

Terms like VaPer and such, as far as I know, not official terms and are not regulated By the industry. This leaves them open to interpretation.
MacBaren, on the other hand, does a very good job of describing their blends on the back the labels. I cannot speak to the Modern Virginia, but the HH Acadian Perique is clearly spelled out with Virginia, Orientals, original Cavendish and perique.

cosmicfolklore · Mar 27, 2015

I would agree on the Acadian Perique, and a few of their other excellent selections. I wasn't just picking on them, per se, just using them as an example.

carytobacco · Mar 27, 2015

Terms like VaPer and such, as far as I know, not official terms and are not regulated By the industry. This leaves them open to interpretation.

Exactly. Same way in cigar sizes where one companies robusto is 5x50 and other is 4.5x54

cosmicfolklore · Mar 27, 2015

I love the posts that are like, just smoke what they give you, and like it, ha ha. Whats wrong with being discerning... and mostly just talking about tobacco. I guess we should all just shut up and talk about our favorite Chinese foods, which might actually be Japanese or Americanized, ha ha.
Anyways, it's just fun to talk about these things. I love my tobacco snob friends. Better to be a snob than boring. Well, I try to be a snob anyways. It's what I strive for : puffy

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saltedplug · Apr 7, 2015

A VA/Per is just that, virginia and perique. I haven't smoked any of the new Seattle blend, Deception Pass, which is advertised as a VA/Per though it contains oriental tobacco. I'm fine with modifications, tweaking, other tobaccos as subordinate, but if the subordinate tobacco comes to have a voice equal to virginia or perique, to me this is a different blend, needing a new name or just no classification at all.

frozenchurchwarden · Apr 7, 2015

I think Gawith Hoggarth may be a good example here. Maybe Ennerdale just mutates everything into an indistinguishable sweet abomination, but it's nothing like the hordes of cheap aromatics I've tried. Flavour changes through the bowl but doesn't hit a cliff and turn sour. It reminds me of a high quality Virginia, which it almost undoubtedly is, even though they list half a dozen other things and it's one of the strongest aromatics on the market.
On MacBaren, I have to feel sorry for them. The people and the company are so easy to love, they have an obvious openness and enthusiasm, and yet it seems like their entire line is stuck in Burley land.

People in Denmark obviously love it or they wouldn't make so much of the same thing, I just wish they could figure out how to take nothing but Virginia and Perique and press that into a flake.

It's almost like they have a mental version of the Lakeland essence. Instead of being spread around by contact with machines they can't write a recipe without adding certain things.

I still have a faint hope that Modern Virginia will be good after a few years, this stuff is about as fresh as a Virginia can get, and I can't say I was impressed with FVF sraight from a new tin either.

cosmicfolklore · Apr 7, 2015

Ha ha +1 frozenchurchwarden. It's like they can't cook anything without adding nuts, ha ha! : puffy

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mso489 · Apr 7, 2015

It's easy to mention at least the primary tobaccos in a blend, and it seems both helpful and fair. If there's some trace of an extra leaf that serves as the secret sauce, and the blender wants to keep it hush-hush, okay. But I think primary ingredients ought to be mentioned on the tin and certainly in reviews.

lordofthepiperings · Apr 7, 2015

I think Gawith Hoggarth may be a good example here. Maybe Ennerdale just mutates everything into an indistinguishable sweet abomination, but it's nothing like the hordes of cheap aromatics I've tried. Flavour changes through the bowl but doesn't hit a cliff and turn sour. It reminds me of a high quality Virginia, which it almost undoubtedly is, even though they list half a dozen other things and it's one of the strongest aromatics on the market.

The only taste I got from Ennerdale Flake was soap. Plane and simple dish soap, nothing more. I couldn't even detect anything else other than the soap. It could have been a straight Latakia blend I would never have known because of that soap top dressing.
Personally I'd rather have a cheap aromatic than Ennerdale Flake. At least the cheap aros don't leave that nasty soap taste in your mouth for a day or two.

cosmicfolklore · Apr 7, 2015

Ha ha lordofthepiperings, was it soap or urinal cake? I got urinal cake in my flavor profile for this one. I can smoke it. I tried to like it, but... I kept reading that it smelled like juicy fruit gum, but even my kids said they got urinal cake aromas from it, ha ha. But, I guess someone likes it, and good for them. They can have my share. Isn't it funny how we can all taste something different from the same thing?

What's Up With People Calling It A VaPer And Adding Other Leaf?

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