What's Stoving and Dark-Fired?

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mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,459
If I were a newbie, I'd be apologizing for asking a dumb question, but I guess I've moved beyond being diplomatic. I understand that applied heat is part of the process in making some tobaccos used in some blends, sometimes called stoving, and the end product with some leaf called dark-fired. I'm curious to know in a general way how the leaf is cooked/baked. Industrial cooking ovens? Specially made brick ovens, like a pottery kiln or giant pizza oven? At what temperatures is leaf cooked and for how long, and in what quantities at one time? Maybe as with many blending techniques, there is some proprietary secrecy about this, but there must be information that is generally known. I don't need a text, just a short overview. I fancifully imagine them sliding cookie sheets of leaf into Big Bend restaurant stove ovens; then I wonder what they really do.

 
Fire curing is done in a special barn with fires built with the smoke directed to the hanging tobacco with flues. This imparts a smokiness similar to the way barbecue does meat.

Stoving is a process, mostly done by the tobacco processor middle man for tobacconist, involving a Cavendish process. The heat merely changes “cooks” the sugars, making them more caramelized in flavor.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,459
Cosmic, I'm familiar with the old tobacco barns with the fire in the ground, heating and smoking the tobacco leaf hung from sticks. I've lived around those, some active and others collapsing into ruin over the years. My late wife grew up partly on her grandparents' tobacco farm and "sticked" tobacco, tied it to hang in the tobacco barn above the fire. I didn't realize flue cured was generally the same as "dark-fired" or "stoving." So no one is baking leaf in ovens? I guess it was the mention of stoves that threw me off. And dark-fired suggests more than just flue curing. Ah, language.

 

blendtobac

Lifer
Oct 16, 2009
1,237
213
The classic stoving method was to cook the tobacco in a copper pan or plate with a heat source underneath, but I'm sure it could be done in a chamber or oven.
Russ

 

jeremyreeves

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 14, 2015
145
887
The old flue curing barns were made and used very differently from fire curing barns and the processes are / were very different, even before electric heat became a possibility. Fire curing is a process where leaf is put directly in contact with the smoke and heat of a smoldering fire built inside the barn. Flue curing barns, such as one finds in the Raleigh / Durham, NC area, were built with fire places that faced outside of the barn, and the wall chimney faced inside the barn to radiate the heat but prevent smoke or flame from contacting the tobacco. Today, basically all the flue curing process is done in special sealed chambers with precise controls for heat and humidity and no one really uses the old flue barns anymore. Both fire curing and flue curing are very difficult and require a lot of skill and understanding on the part of the farmer.
Stoving is a more murky subject. Typically carried out by a manufacturer, stoving essentially refers to the application of dry heat to tobacco, which is different from Cavendish processing which involves steam and pressure. Many different manufacturers use these terms to refer their own particular methods and some degree of overlap exists, as everyone does things a bit differently.

 
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I knew that there was a difference between the cavendish and stoving processes, but Russ (or someone) had told the forum that it was the same thing... so, I was rolling with it. My family did burley, so we never had to heat cure, but we did drive to Tennessee to see the fire cure barns in the winter when I was but a kid.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,459
A copper pan with heat underneath, now that I can visualize, which helps a lot. How it might be scaled up for production, I can surmise. But at least this gives me a picture of what goes on. I thought it must be a bit different from flue cured. Also the steam and pressure in making Cavendish intrigues me, but I will leave it to the experts, who earn their pay.

 

artificialme

Can't Leave
Mar 15, 2018
317
3
So no one is baking leaf in ovens?
Some people do this :mrgreen:. Those DIY snuff user sometimes bake the tobacco quickly in an oven or maybe a microwave just to force it to dry out. After it, they will grind it to finer grind and snuff en right up :D

 

bazungu

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 28, 2018
110
7
I was wondering, when tobacco gets pressed for plugs or flakes, it gets stoved inside of the press right? I always imagine it being pressed and then the press gets heated up or steam gets injected to stove the tobacco. But I also read cavendish tobacco are in fact stoved tobaccos? So could we consider flakes like FVF, 3Ps, salty dogs etc... as cavendish tobacco since they get heated/steamed? Or how else do they get that more uniform, darker look like all the tobaccos have melted together,

 

noctivagant

Lurker
May 30, 2018
15
2
Harrisonburg VA
I grew up farming tobacco with my dad and we raised dark Virginia tobacco that we fire-cured. We used 150 year old barns and dad had his own mixture of oak, hickory and whatever else he stoked the fires with. He'd have to go stoke the fire in the middle of the night to keep them smoldering. He'd grown up farming the stuff and I wish I'd learned more from him before he passed.
Way back, most American tobacco was cured as what's known as aromatic fire cured, before flue curing became a thing. Flue-curing is a much quicker process that yields a milder tobacco and hinges on harvesting the leaves as they ripened, whereas we cut the whole plant to cure. The advantage for us was that we could harvest and cure a whole crop of tobacco (never more than a few acres) ourselves with help from family since dark fired tobacco was cut down plant and all and speared on a stick with the stalk in tact to cure. The folks that grew "bright" or flue-cured tobacco had to have a crew of migrants that would pick leaves as they ripened, as it is much more labor intensive.
Stoving is done post curing. The tobaccos are cooked to caramelize the sugars in the tobacco to change their character and could be done with flue or fire-cured leaf.

 
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noctivagant

Lurker
May 30, 2018
15
2
Harrisonburg VA
I should add that dark-fired now almost universally means Kentucky, which is burley that is fire instead of air-cured. In times past, burleys and Virginias we're both fire-cured depending on the variety and region.
Southside Virginia where I grew up had a deep tradition of fire-curing dark Virginia tobaccos for pipe and cigar manufacture. This was mostly done in by folks moving towards bright tobaccos that were flue-curing for cigarettes.

 
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blendtobac

Lifer
Oct 16, 2009
1,237
213
Stoving Virginia is the American version of European black Cavendish. The difference is that the Euro Cavendish might be steamed and flavored after toasting while the US version is usually just cooked. American black Cavendish is normally made of sugared Burley, toasted and then steamed and flavored. That's where some of the confusion may come from.
Russ

 
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