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What Is The Real Cause For The War On Tobacco?

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    I wouldn't want this thread to get too political or even political
    at all but I've often wondered what the real cause for the war on
    tobacco is considering that there are many other things that cause
    as much or more illness and death but that no-one seems particularly
    concerned about.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  2. rdavid

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    Just ask any anti tobacco government official: It's all about the poor, innocent children...

    "May my last breath be drawn through a pipe, and exhaled in a jest." Charles Lamb
    Posted 4 months ago #
  3. bassbug

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    Keep in mind that 99% of tobacco users smoke cigarettes.

    They are much more harmful than pipe smoking
    The smell is much less tolerable (for most people)
    They produce butts, not just ash
    Second hand smoke, from any source is an actual, real concern.

    With maybe the exception of alcohol, I can't think of any other legal products that cause as much harm as cigarettes.

    I don't care who you are, you're not walking on the water while I'm fishing
    Posted 4 months ago #
  4. rdavid

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    With maybe the exception of alcohol, I can't think of any other legal products that cause as much harm as cigarettes.

    Highly processed junk foods, sugar, high fructose corn syrup.

    My wife works for the local school district in food services. We have a long history of obesity and diabetes assured.

    I firmly believe the food industry, the pharmaceutical industry and the clueless medical field is killing as many people as tobacco... if not more.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  5. bassbug

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    You may be right, but I sincerely wonder if junk food is addictive.

    I'm not going down the rabbit hole of pharma or medicine...just too complex for a casual discussion

    Posted 4 months ago #
  6. prndl

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    There are two types of people in this world.

    One sits on his front porch and opines, "I don't like tobacco, therefore I'm not going to smoke."

    His neighbor across the street sits on his own front porch and opines, "I don't like tobacco, therefore I'm going to make sure that no one else can smoke."

    You can fill in whatever blank you want but, imo, most of the world's problems are caused by those neighbors across the street.

    Home is the sailor, home from sea,
    And the hunter home from the hill.
    Posted 4 months ago #
  7. bigtex

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    Money...

    Making Pipe Smoking Great Again!
    Posted 4 months ago #
  8. ashdigger

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    Ignorance

    Ubi Ignis Est?
    Posted 4 months ago #
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    Just ask any anti tobacco government official:
    It's all about the poor, innocent children...

    What the heck do "poor, innocent children" have to do with it?

    There's got to be a deeper reason.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  10. greatdane

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    The "War on Tobacco" is not really that different than the "War on Junk Food", "War on Guns", "War on fill-in-your-blank", etc.

    Basically boils down to progressivism, which is the advocacy of "continuous improvement of society" by reform, and this "reform" is almost always implemented by government legislation (i.e. force). Versus conservatism or classical liberalism, which generally believes the individual is best suited to make these choices by him or herself.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  11. fluffie666

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    Greed

    Posted 4 months ago #
  12. pappymac

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    Humanity feeling the need to upset the natural order of the world by living forever. Think about it. Everything on this planet has a life cycle but humans are the only ones trying to break the cycle so they can be immortal.

    This also points out the hypocrisy of those who on one hand say smoking kills and we have to prohibit smoking so we prevent the deaths while complaining that the world is overcrowded and healthcare systems overburdened so we have to restrict the health care of the elderly.

    I am glad we have a good admin and responsible moderators.

    Heave to you dark colored ship under sail! Prepare to be boarded!
    Posted 4 months ago #
  13. derhammer

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    Spot on, Pappymac. That was beautiful I couldn't agree more.
    Most of it is our fault in our perception and the lack of observation of our world.

    Pierre
    Posted 4 months ago #
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    This also points out the hypocrisy of those who on one hand say smoking kills and we have to prohibit smoking so we prevent the deaths while complaining that the world is overcrowded and healthcare systems overburdened so we have to restrict the health care of the elderly.

    "Restricting the health care of the elderly" sounds to me like a euphemism
    for killing them off. They're already doing it in the UK by stopping their
    meds and water.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  15. jpmcwjr

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    Keep in mind that 99% of tobacco users smoke cigarettes.

    They are much more harmful than pipe smoking
    The smell is much less tolerable (for most people)
    They produce butts, not just ash
    Second hand smoke, from any source is an actual, real concern.

    With maybe the exception of alcohol, I can't think of any other legal products that cause as much harm as cigarettes.

    I think that's right.

    And also:


    Highly processed junk foods, sugar, high fructose corn syrup.

    Now are the above addictive? Dunno, but eating them in quantity and lack of exercise is why a huge number of Americans are obese.

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 4 months ago #
  16. lordofthepiperings

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    I think the state of anti-tobacco today is mostly tied to money. There's more money donated to politicians from anti-tobacco people, so you have more politicians campaigning on how bad tobacco is for you.

    Maybe it started off as a progressive liberal thing, but I do personally know a number of long time conservatives who are anti-tobacco. I think these days this is an issue that is pretty uniform across the political spectrum.

    I will say the anti-tobacco people in general are COMPLETELY clueless as to pipe tobacco and cigars. They've just been fed this anti-tobacco info from a cigarette standpoint which just about all of us agree cigarettes are terrible and a perversion of tobacco.

    "The thinking man always smokes a Peterson." -Peterson of Dublin
    Posted 4 months ago #
  17. aro222

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    [quoteThere are two types of people in this world.

    One sits on his front porch and opines, "I don't like tobacco, therefore I'm not going to smoke."

    His neighbor across the street sits on his own front porch and opines, "I don't like tobacco, therefore I'm going to make sure that no one else can smoke."

    You can fill in whatever blank you want but, imo, most of the world's problems are caused by those neighbors across the street.

    Totally agree. You hit the nail on the head there brother. Some people have a real problem with MINDING THERE OWN BUSINESS !!!!!

    Keep calm...smoke a pipe.
    Posted 4 months ago #
  18. warren

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    There are many reasons. But, "The American Cancer Society", back in the 1900's managed to focus them down to health. Even Elizabethan English decried the effects smoking had on personal health. Nothing new now days except large numbers of people dislike the loss of family, many hate the smell, etc. Money made tobacco acceptable over the years through Hollywood, donating to the "war effort", and advertising. A bunch of doctors, parents, etc. banded together and fought the tobacco companies to a standstill and then, steamrolled them at the ballot box. Now the general balance of society is "anti-smoking." Even the big money tobacco companies saw the writing on the wall a couple of generations back and began to diversify, moving away from tobacco as their prime business.

    Government was late to the party of course. It usually is as societal changes are slow. You youngsters simply do not have a grasp of the history and think this situation is a recent phenomena. And, far too many take the move against tobacco as something personal. Which of course, if you are tobacco user, certainly seems reasonable. The only people to blame are you and I. This all started with the first arrival of tobacco to the white world, the societal division has been there since.

    A man without a shillelagh is a man without an expedient.
    Posted 4 months ago #
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    I've heard that an enormous amount of acreage is devoted to growing
    tobacco and that there are certain parties who want to end this so
    that the land now growing tobacco could instead be devoted to growing food.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  20. aro222

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    Well written Warren.
    Some good points there.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  21. warren

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    Women! Blame the women for today's "anti-tobacco" stance. Bless their hearts they eased the restrictions on smoking when they took to the weed. But, it was mothers who led the charge for the American Society, empowering it with voice, money and votes.

    Women, they made smoking publicly acceptable for a time and then ... they swapped out the vice for smarts. They do enliven life!

    Posted 4 months ago #
  22. brian64

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    The best way to save pipe smoking is to emphasize and publicize as much as possible the fact that it is an exclusively MALE domain, activity and interest.

    Now I realize that is not 100% true, but it is very close to that. But for propaganda purposes, it should be continually advertised as exclusively male...because reverse psychology is a powerful force...and if it successfully caused hordes of females to take to the pipe in defiance our universe would be saved.

    “Bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.” – George Carlin
    Posted 4 months ago #
  23. carolinachurchwarden

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    It definitely is crazy. Not sure why some people won't leave other people the hell alone.

    Maybe it started off as a progressive liberal thing, but I do personally know a number of long time conservatives who are anti-tobacco.

    I know folks on both sides of the aisle that anti-tobacco as well. The issue I've found, is where one group of people is anti-tobacco and may sound like a broken record when they trumpet that smoking kills, the other group say it kills and tries to eliminate it altogether, like prndl said above. It's important to let people know the dangers of things, but I draw the line at taking it away from me when it's my choice. I'm an adult and I decide when I have a drink, when I eat, and when I want to smoke. You can tell me how bad it is all you like, but the minute you try to take it away from me, we goin' a few rounds.

    "If you can't send money, send tobacco." - George Washington

    Posted 4 months ago #
  24. rdavid

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    But for propaganda purposes, it should be continually advertised as exclusively male...because reverse psychology is a powerful force...and if it successfully caused hordes of females to take to the pipe in defiance our universe would be saved.

    This right here is brilliant!

    Posted 4 months ago #
  25. jvnshr

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    Money! If something is related to money directly or not, there will always be war around it.

    Javan
    Posted 4 months ago #
  26. sablebrush52

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    This had been a very interesting thread so far, and I think that pappymac's point about the natural order of things is well taken. It's also an excellent argument for the removal of all firearms of every description as these are unnatural and interfere with the natural cycle of things. So I'm sure that you all will turn in your firearms post haste because you wouldn't want to interfere with the natural order of things.

    As for anti-tobacco campaign, well, smoking is a filthy and unhealthy habit, and one that I enjoy immensely. And it is no respecter of liberty nor freedom since smoke wafts everywhere and is encountered by others in proximity to a smoker whether they want it or not. Every pipe smoker wants to kid himself that it's safer than coffin nails, but it's really not. It just tastes a whole lot better.

    But the real reason behind so much of the anti-smoking campaign is about the economic costs to the nation. Illness, loss of productive time, etc, cost tens of billions of dollars each and every year. The costs of our filthy and immensely enjoyable habits are coming out everyone else's pockets and they object. C'mon, you worker bees! Drop those smokes and get back to making widgets.

    Certainly, other problems, like sugar and junk food addiction, obesity, pollution are costing as much and probably more, than smoking, but eradicating smoking is an easier target than eradicating Twinkies and driving a car.

    And we may just go extinct in a few generations, as some see as a possibility, so why even bother. In which case, I think it's high time to break open that tin of State Express London Mixture that I've been saving for a rainy day.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 4 months ago #
  27. hoosierpipeguy

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    You may be right, but I sincerely wonder if junk food is addictive.

    Hunger is very addictive. It's not cheap to eat healthy. Go to an inner city grocery store, fill your cart up with healthy foods and check out. Oh, and then you have to prepare the food before eating.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  28. ashdigger

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    It's not cheap to eat healthy.

    That's why Whole Foods is known as Whole Paycheck.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  29. hoosierpipeguy

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    There are two types of people in this world.

    One sits on his front porch and opines, "I don't like tobacco, therefore I'm not going to smoke."

    His neighbor across the street sits on his own front porch and opines, "I don't like tobacco, therefore I'm going to make sure that no one else can smoke."

    You can fill in whatever blank you want but, imo, most of the world's problems are caused by those neighbors across the street.

    Wisdom

    Posted 4 months ago #
  30. olkofri

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    Social engineering. Globalism (WHO's Framework Convention on Tobacco Control).

    The Sauronic drive to want to have control over all life.

    Not the sweet, new grass with flowers is this harvesting of mine;
    Not the upland clover bloom...
    Posted 4 months ago #
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    But the real reason behind so much of the anti-smoking campaign is about
    the economic costs to the nation. Illness, loss of productive time, etc, cost
    tens of billions of dollars each and every year.

    Sir: I have no wish to seem disrespectful but, although I have so far lived
    a total of 79 years on this revolting planet, I myself have never once known
    of anyone hospitalized or even being made sick as a result of indulging in
    the 'demon weed' (i.e. tobacco).

    As for these "tens of billions of dollars" you speak of, I see no need for
    anyone to get hot under the collar about such piffling amounts when trillions
    each year are tossed around with happy abandon while being wasted on quite
    unnecessary adventures.

    As for the statistics you mention, I used to work in an office where the
    gentleman responsible for calculating the monthly statistics used to
    make them up since to accurately compile them was just too boring and
    time-consuming a task. He was quite a nice fellow but since then I've
    been somewhat wary of published 'statistics'.

    I could say more but perhaps I've said enough.

    Posted 4 months ago #
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    With maybe the exception of alcohol, I can't think of any other legal products that cause as much harm as cigarettes.

    Pesticides? Food additives? Pharmaceuticals?

    Posted 4 months ago #
  33. jpmcwjr

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    I've heard that an enormous amount of acreage is devoted to growing
    tobacco and that there are certain parties who want to end this so
    that the land now growing tobacco could instead be devoted to growing food.

    The first part of the statement is false. And its economics that the land owner uses to decide what to plant and harvest. Sure, there are some who'd restrict almost anything.

    Posted 4 months ago #
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    Social engineering. Globalism (WHO's Framework Convention on Tobacco Control).
    The Sauronic drive to want to have control over all life.

    Brilliant! Yes, the urge to dominate and control others is abundantly evident in society.
    I've always thought it derived out of a fear of life.

    Posted 4 months ago #
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    Women! Blame the women for today's "anti-tobacco" stance.

    If you've never read Arthur Schopenhauer's 'Essay on Women' you're in for a treat!

    Posted 4 months ago #
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    I've heard that an enormous amount of acreage is devoted to growing
    tobacco and that there are certain parties who want to end this so
    that the land now growing tobacco could instead be devoted to growing food.

    The first part of the statement is false. And its economics that the land owner uses to decide what to plant and harvest. Sure, there are some who'd restrict almost anything.

    I was talking about the world, not just the USA, and Globalism's plans for it.
    And with the ever increasing torrent of new regulation landowners are going to have
    less and less say in what they can do with their land.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  37. olkofri

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    I've been somewhat wary of published 'statistics'.

    Actual term is "stratistics".

    Posted 4 months ago #
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    That's a good one!

    Posted 4 months ago #
  39. warren

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    myself have never once known
    of anyone hospitalized or even being made sick as a result of indulging in
    the 'demon weed' (i.e. tobacco).

    You sir, are an extremely lucky man! I hope such luck never goes away. Consider yourself blessed.

    Social engineering. Globalism (WHO's Framework Convention on Tobacco Control).
    The Sauronic drive to want to have control over all life.

    Certainly nothing new since the advent of human beings. Human beings have created ruling classes for ever. And they, bless their little hearts are always trying to make people change.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  40. brian64

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    I've been somewhat wary of published 'statistics'.

    Truth, accuracy and just reality in general are all so passe. You've got to get with the times.

    I self-identify as a non-smoking vegan...even though I smoke like a chimney and eat more meat than a polar bear.

    Anyone who questions that is just a bigot.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  41. sablebrush52

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    Sir: I have no wish to seem disrespectful but, although I have so far lived
    a total of 79 years on this revolting planet, I myself have never once known
    of anyone hospitalized or even being made sick as a result of indulging in
    the 'demon weed' (i.e. tobacco).

    I wish I could say the same. I’ve helped bury several.

    And over the years we’ve had several members who became ill and had to quit.

    I might accept your view regarding statistics if it were based on one lazy statistician rather than decades of research from hundreds of sources.
    Denial ain’t just in Egypt.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  42. tennsmoker

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    +1 brian64

    And I'm surprised the "nanny state" hasn't shown up yet.

    Ok, I have an idea: let's tell those of us who like to imbibe a bit that you can no longer have your favorite draft, bourbon, scotch, etc.

    Oh, wait. That was tried. Yeah, that worked!

    I rest my case.


    The past is never dead. It's not even past--Requiem for a Nun
    Posted 4 months ago #
  43. workman

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    It kills a lot of people. That's why.

    Smoking is one of the leading causes of all statistics.
    Posted 4 months ago #
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    There are a lot of reasons someone would be on the anti-smoking bandwagon, and almost every one of them is as distasteful as the actual people who hold those views. Even when there is some shred of legitimacy, like "tobacco smoke offends my nose", it is easy to see that when the original problem is removed, the overpowering need to modify others' behavior is not sated, it is merely whetted.

    "Now people can't smoke anywhere near me. Shit, I can't bitch and whine in a show of moral superiority any more. Wait, allow me to fabricate some other crap complaint so people can't smoke in their homes! That'll show 'em!" It's a personality disorder, nothing more.

    If people are anti-smoking Nazis because Daddy sucked down Pall Malls for thirty years and died of cancer, tough shit. Take it up with the ghost of Daddy. Get some grief counseling and a life, for Christ's sake. Bad shit happens in all our lives. Try not to spread the gloom and doom just because of your shit-pot luck.

    One of the better ways of legitimizing this crap has come with the encroachment of socialized medicine. First, you make sure that health care is unreasonably expensive. Then "solve" the problem you created with socialized shit health care schemes. Then point out how much your fellow hoi polloi are fucking you over by using "your" healthcare dollars for "their" sickness. Now your behavior is everybody's business! Well, hell, Big Brother will come in and help you out! Down with the bad old days when everybody paid for their own healthcare (well, except for those who have always relied on someone else's dollars to pay their way).

    It's horse shit, and the basest urges of man run amok.

    A man who serves his country is a patriot. A man who serves his government is an employee. The two are not always the same thing.
    Posted 4 months ago #
  45. cranseiron

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    IBTL

    Posted 4 months ago #
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    Truth, accuracy and just reality in general are all so passe. You've got to get with the times.
    I self-identify as a non-smoking vegan...even though I smoke like a chimney and eat more meat than a polar bear.
    Anyone who questions that is just a bigot.

    Ah, but one wonders just which of the current 146 'Genders' you self-identify as?

    Posted 4 months ago #
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    It kills a lot of people. That's why.

    So why are there no "Wars" of similar magnitude on the many
    other things that "kill a lot of people"?

    Posted 4 months ago #
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    There are a lot of reasons someone would be on the anti-smoking bandwagon, and almost every one of them is as distasteful as the actual people who hold those views. Even when there is some shred of legitimacy, like "tobacco smoke offends my nose", it is easy to see that when the original problem is removed, the overpowering need to modify others' behavior is not sated, it is merely whetted.
    "Now people can't smoke anywhere near me. Shit, I can't bitch and whine in a show of moral superiority any more. Wait, allow me to fabricate some other crap complaint so people can't smoke in their homes! That'll show 'em!" It's a personality disorder, nothing more.
    If people are anti-smoking Nazis because Daddy sucked down Pall Malls for thirty years and died of cancer, tough shit. Take it up with the ghost of Daddy. Get some grief counseling and a life, for Christ's sake. Bad shit happens in all our lives. Try not to spread the gloom and doom just because of your shit-pot luck.
    One of the better ways of legitimizing this crap has come with the encroachment of socialized medicine. First, you make sure that health care is unreasonably expensive. Then "solve" the problem you created with socialized shit health care schemes. Then point out how much your fellow hoi polloi are fucking you over by using "your" healthcare dollars for "their" sickness. Now your behavior is everybody's business! Well, hell, Big Brother will come in and help you out! Down with the bad old days when everybody paid for their own healthcare (well, except for those who have always relied on someone else's dollars to pay their way).
    It's horse shit, and the basest urges of man run amok.

    PHEW! That's quite a harangue. Now why don't you tell us how you really feel?

    P.S. Just kidding. Actually I agree with you entirely. These "anti-smoking Nazis"
    are highly unsavory specimens of the human race.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  49. davet

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    Posted 4 months ago #
  50. jpmcwjr

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    Trend is down. I hears keys jangling. JPM out.

    Posted 4 months ago #
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    That would be a pity as no-one yet has arrived at what I suspect is the deeper cause.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  52. warren

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    Deeper cause? There's no unknown cause. People simply no longer need to tolerate smoke, the reek, nor myriad of illnesses. Only those of us who like to show a bit of rebellion enjoy smoking. Most smokers here have no pressing need, or obsession to push their vice onto others. I firmly believe most here are fairly content to avoid no-smoking areas rather then "stink up the room" as it were.

    I do not understand the seemingly obsessive mindset that tries to defend smoking. It's simply a selfish choice we all made, knowing the hazards, health and social, that go along with it. The steady bitching about a self-selected vice is beyond comprehension. And the idea that it's the "neighbor's" fault is laughable.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  53. mso489

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    The vast industry and profits generated by tobacco products, foremost cigarettes; the habit forming nature of tobacco; the health statistics related to cigarette morbidity; the methods of the cigarette industry to make the marketing more effective and the product more habit forming; the political swing to a pubic health reaction to cigarette sales; and all of the public sentiment generated especially on behalf of child health. Is the reaction balanced and reasoned? Not notably, but to most non-smokers, it looks reasonable.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  54. User has not uploaded an avatar

    aldecaker

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    Someone said it's the neighbors fault that we smoke? I must have missed that one.

    I, for one, don't defend smoking. I defend a person's right to do it without busybodies interfering. No one has to smell my smoke, so, in my opinion, that should be the end of the story.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  55. warren

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    You can fill in whatever blank you want but, imo, most of the world's problems are caused by those neighbors across the street.

    It's always somebody else that's at fault for a lot of people.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  56. brian64

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    So why are there no "Wars" of similar magnitude on the many
    other things that "kill a lot of people"?

    Stay tuned...it's all comin' just around the bend.

    Driverless vehicles, lab grown meat..."social credit scores" to keep you in line with whatever the latest edicts are...robot cops...utopia!

    The mistaken notion though is that it has anything to do with "public health". Public health has been in steady decline for quite a while and all of the things that are causing that will only get worse because honest science isn't promoted by the MSM.

    It's all only about control.

    I, for one, don't defend smoking. I defend a person's right to do it without busybodies interfering. No one has to smell my smoke, so, in my opinion, that should be the end of the story.

    Indeed...but that type of principled thinking is considered to be extremism now.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  57. olkofri

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    If it were about public health, why legalise pot?

    If it's not the nicotine, but the combustion byproducts what causes cancer, why legalise pot which is also smoked?

    If the gov't cares so much about our health, why does medicare sux so much? Why do I have to put up with bullshit from a doctor: namely, him telling me that my earache is not sinusitis, but TMJ? Why do I not get referred to a specialist in spite of clear symptoms?

    Hell, if it's about saving the gov't money on health care, why do they strongly oppose that people turn to private care?

    It's never been about health, public or private, or the chiiiiillllllddddreeeeeeen.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  58. chasingembers

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    It kills a lot of people. That's why.

    The leading cause of death in the world is living.

    Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.
    -Edward Teach
    Posted 4 months ago #
  59. olkofri

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    Yup. Life: sexually transmitted, always fatal.

    Damn, I intended to be sort of jocular, but suddenly I remembered they're waging war on population too.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  60. sablebrush52

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    Yeah, and what about seatbelts? When I was a kid there were no seatbelts! People were proud to fly through a windshield! Then some commie started installing seatbelts, which severed your spine, and even that got taken away when those shoulder harnesses showed up. And don’t get me started on stop signs. Just because the only two automobiles in the state of Nebraska collided head on in 1908, we’re stuck with stop signs and traffic lights and all that other effeminate hogwash!

    Posted 4 months ago #
  61. warren

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    As long as we are gonna muck up the debate with all sorts of extraneous observations, let's not forget baby and toddlers. Government mandated safety devices for children. What a waste! What an incursion into our right to be stupid.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  62. chasingembers

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    When I was a kid there were no seatbelts!

    On family road trips, all of us kids would pile into the back of Dad's El Camino.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  63. jaytex969

    jaytex969

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    Or, as a comedian once said, "I'm not suggesting we kill all the stupid people. I'm just saying we get rid of all the warning labels and let it work itself out..."

    IBTL

    Gunner, Black Frigate. Say "Hello" to my little friend!
    Posted 4 months ago #
  64. brian64

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    Yeah, and what about seatbelts? When I was a kid there were no seatbelts! People were proud to fly through a windshield! Then some commie started installing seatbelts, which severed your spine, and even that got taken away when those shoulder harnesses showed up. And don’t get me started on stop signs. Just because the only two automobiles in the state of Nebraska collided head on in 1908, we’re stuck with stop signs and traffic lights and all that other effeminate hogwash!

    As long as we are gonna muck up the debate with all sorts of extraneous observations, let's not forget baby and toddlers. Government mandated safety devices for children. What a waste! What an incursion into our right to be stupid.

    You know, I have to agree...I must bow to the flawless logic of all of that. And the obvious extension is that the line should not be drawn anywhere. Absolute control is the only reasonable solution to everything.

    The only hitch is, even then we would all still keep exhaling all of that toxic CO2, which we all know is really the ultimate problem, even worse than tobacco (hard to believe I know) but all reputable scientists agree on that. Only climate change deniers say otherwise...and they're even crazier than pipe smokers.

    Isn't that amazing when you think about it? Even all of the non-tobacco users are still filthy CO2 machines.

    What a messed up species we are.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  65. warren

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    I know, I know, all of us went through some "there but for the grace of God" things as youngsters. That shouldn't mitigate against using what's available today to keep kids from becoming projectiles in vehicle accidents.

    So, we've drifted far away from tobacco and so ...IBTL!

    Posted 4 months ago #
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    Anonymous

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    Or, as a comedian once said, "I'm not suggesting we kill all the stupid people. I'm just saying we get rid of all the warning labels and let it work itself out..."

    Priceless!

    Posted 4 months ago #
  67. sablebrush52

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    The only hitch is, even then we would all still keep exhaling all of that toxic CO2, which we all know is really the ultimate problem, even worse than tobacco (hard to believe I know) but all reputable scientists agree on that. Only climate change deniers say otherwise...and they're even crazier than pipe smokers.

    That and cow farts. You mustn’t forget the cow farts!

    Posted 4 months ago #
  68. chasingembers

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    Posted 4 months ago #
  69. chilllucky

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    There is only so much historical complexity one can stuff into a forum post, but here's an attempt:

    "Big tobacco" acted monopolistically (which is illegal, tho not often enforced) to do a lot of harm to a lot of people. Between straight-up lying about the medical science (killing their customers), price fixing (strangling their suppliers), to illegally importing Brazilian tobaccos in the 80's in violation of tariffs, contracts with American farmers, the federal nspection regeime, etc.

    They acted like cartoon villians. They were eventually caught and called out. This did two important things relavant to your original question. 1. It (rightly, I would say) set public opinion against the industry (mostly against the major brands dominant product -cigarettes). 2. It established cause to sue them as bad actors and tax them as a vice.

    Between those two facts and also that A. Government actors go with dominant public opinion and B. Governments get their operating budgets from such suits and taxes, and finally C. That federal powers are a giant ship in the ocean. It runs straight thru most things on momentum and fine course correction is nearly impossible.

    Pipe smokers are dolphins in the wake of an aircraft carrier.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  70. cranseiron

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    ^^^^ Thank you for well reasoned, unbiased, unemotional and supportable facts.

    Posted 4 months ago #

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