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Weird Policeman Experience

(90 posts)
  1. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

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    I drive to a couple of different jewelry stores that had rather trade out the repair work to me than hire their own bench jeweler, which means that I do some driving daily. So, this morning, before they opened, I drive to this little city where the store is in a strip mall on a busy road. It’s a small town, and I don’t remember ever seeing a police officer here, ever.

    I do my business, and get back in my truck, fill and fire up my pipe, and maneuver right onto the main road. The car in front of me decides to make a last minute right turn off the road without signaling, where I stomp my break. Seconds later, red and blues are swirling behind me, so I pull off at the next store.

    Now, my mind is spinning with what I could have done wrong. But…

    The officer approaches my truck, and I keep my hands on the wheel. I am already thinking over how I will handle revealing to the officer that I am carrying a pistol because of the type of work I do, but…

    “Sir, can you extinguish your smoking apparatus?”

    “Sure!” I respond, and I tamp the pipe.

    “Sir, fully extinguish your pipe in your ashtray.”

    “But…” my mind which was spinning on so many things just didn’t compute… “I don’t have an ashtray.” I know from experience years ago as a cigarette smoker that they don’t like it when you flick them out the window, so I figure dumping the bowl on the road was out of the question.

    With more anger… “Sir, one more time, dump out your pipe right now.” Meanwhile I can see in the rearview that he is putting his hand on his gun. He is obviously upset and probably not very well trained.

    “The pipe is its own ashtray….” But, swift thinking, I just dump the pipe out in my hand, and toss the ashes into the pipe rest, which spread ashes all over my dashboard.

    “License and proof of insurance please.”

    “Why am I being pulled over, officer?”

    “You made a right hand turn off of the highway without signaling.”

    “Ummm… if I made a right-hand turn off of the highway, why was I still on the highway when you pulled me over?” I knew there must be something I am missing in this conversation. “Do you mean the car in front of me made a turn without signaling?”

    He was busy writing my ticket or something that involved writing.

    He goes back to his car and takes about ten, fifteen minutes. Meanwhile I repack my pipe for when this moron lets me go, wiping the ashes off of my dashboard. And, that was the last of my FVF that I dumped. What an idiot this guy is. But, I also have no idea why this cop pulled me over. Maybe my pipe? Maybe he thought it was pot? But, I am wearing a suit and tie, and the truck is brand new, almost brand new. ..

    He comes back to my window and he tells me that he is letting me off with a warning. I am not to do that turn without signaling that I didn’t do, again. And, he tells me that next time an officer asks me extinguish my smoking apparatus, that I should not argue. Ha ha!

    “Yes sir, thank you.” Ha, thank you? Why did I say that? I have friends and family that are police officers, and one of my daughters wants to be an officer. I have great respects for the law and those who serve, but… some of these guys are idiots. What a weird morning. So, if a policeman asks you to extinguish your pipe… how would you have handled it?

    Michael
    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  2. bassbug

    bassbug

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    I think you handled it perfectly.

    I've handled a few cases where the driver decided to be an A-hole and believe me, it made the defence much more difficult.

    I don't care who you are, you're not walking on the water while I'm fishing
    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  3. bnichols23

    Bill Nichols

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    Hmm, good question. I usually have 3-4 pipes lying in various places in the console & don't have an ashtray or even ash-*cup* (Sheesh, the names they give things.), but I do have a dual cup-holder built in so I'd probably put it there. And if he asked me to "fully" extinguish I'd probably just empty the bowl into the cup & hope it didn't have any embers left to keep it going. I've gotten tickets I didn't deserve sometimes, but I've also *not* gotten tickets for times I really really DID deserve it, so....

    B

    Head Black Frigate keelhauler, boss powder monkey, & troublemaker 1st class.
    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  4. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    After reading your lovely experience, I think I'd place my hand over the bowl which would in fact extinguish the ember faster than just putting it down.

    Anyway, congrats on beating a rap that wasn't there.

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  5. ashdigger

    ashdigger

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    When I get pulled over I set my pipe down. Roll all my windows down and tell the officer that I have a firearm in my cupholder while keeping my hands on the steering wheel.

    Individual experiences may vary.

    Ubi Ignis Est?
    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  6. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

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    I never even got to tell him about my firearm. That might have taken some of the focus off of my pipe. But, with the way this guys was bunking everything up, I may have gotten shot in taking it to that point.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  7. lightmybriar

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    What a wacky experience! Unfortunately, police officers are humans just like the rest of us...and that means that more of them than we'd like to think are idiots. Same with our military. We'd like to think that once the uniform goes on, then the idiocy shuts off, but then there's that whole saying of "lipstick on a pig." I have had some WONDERFUL experiences with officers that made me feel like I was in Mayberry interacting with Andy Griffith...and I have had other experiences where I was actually in fear for my life. Humans are humans, unfortunately...no matter what organization they belong to, or what outfit they're wearing. I would have been just as confused as you in your situation.

    On a pipe adventure
    Steve
    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  8. warren

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    Pre-employment screening surely isn't a science. But, you did good Michael! Some would have determinedly exacerbated the situation.

    A man without a shillelagh is a man without an expedient.
    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  9. tbradsim1

    tbradsim1

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    Yep, got stopped a while back by a State Trooper, opened my door to truck, had my .45 clipped to btm of Door tray, he says hand me that firearm, I say while moving slowly away Sir you get the firearm while holding my arms way up. He pulled pistol out and went in his car, checked seriel# , I had it registered in East Baton Rouge parish. As he put it back in holster he asked why I didn’t hand it to him, I told him, you may not have liked my looks, had an arguement with wife, Boss piss you off, good excuse to shoot me.

    The Old Cajun
    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  10. mso489

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    I wouldn't want to be a police officer. It is an almost impossible task, like being a minister but with lethal force involved, and so dependent on cues and miscues. So many killings by police of citizens are based on basic misunderstandings, miscues and misperceptions. Is it a cell phone or a firearm? A bag of candy or a knife, etc. Since law enforcement is anticipating lethal attacks against them, anxiety can make then hyper-vigilant. Then these turn-signal and lack of probable cause stops can turn into killings which are, except for the legal consideration, murders. I'm a senior white guy, but I don't for a nanosecond think I am immune from this kind of mistake. It's a death sentence pulled out of the lottery of life. Training on use of lethal force should be an ongoing training session for anyone who legally carries "heat."

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  11. hoosierpipeguy

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    In most states, your vehicle is considered an extension of your home and afforded the same rights of privacy. If a police officer comes to your home, he has no right to ask you to extinguish your pipe. What would I do? Depends on my mood and the situation. If I were in a pragmatic mood, I'd dump it in my car ashtray. If I were in my "Crazy Mark" mood, I'd tell him something less friendly. So it is about 50/50. So it is also 50/50 my Attorney and I would meet him in court some day in the future.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  12. warren

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    your vehicle is considered an extension of your home and afforded the same rights of privacy.

    A very general statement to put your life on the line for. Your "legal advise", freely offered as it is, is very general and each situation is different and each is judged individually. Your "right" to privacy is well defined in most courts and "your right to privacy" is totally dependent on the circumstances of each confrontation. Under many circumstances "your right to privacy" can be disregarded. I won't go into the "when" as jurisdictions differ. Even the Supreme Court has made exceptions to "right to privacy" considerations. The professionals, attorneys (Well, at least their clerks.), cops, judges (Again, usually their clerks.) etc. stay very current on the law and recent judicial decisions.

    This site, is not on my list for current legal decision information. Nor, should it be for anyone else.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  13. trouttimes

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    First let me say you handled it well. Most of the LEOs in my area know me, have worked with me and have bent an elbow with me. I often pull security for special people that come into town. From my experience I can tell you 95% of LEOs are just like you and me and are really good guys in a crappy job. There is always a few who are on a power trip for what ever reason that decide to try and put you in your place. Fortunately, they usually are weeded out quickly. Saying that, officers are people who can have a bad day just like any of us. The time to straighten things out is NOT on the side of the road. That can and will make an uncomfortable situation worse.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  14. hawky454

    hawky454

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    Wow, what a trip! I’ve always worried that I would be mistaken for another driver and it appears that my thoughts are not just paranoid mumble jumble, well, yeah I’m sure they still are. But, damn how strange! I’m glad you cooperated with him as surely FVF isn’t worth going to jail for, lol. There are many good cops out there but just like anything else there’s always a few bad apples. I always get very nervous when I’m pulled over, even when I’m pretty sure I didn’t do anything illegal. I was handcuffed and threatened with going to jail because a cop found a seed in my car, the funny thing was, it wasn’t even a pot seed, but he kept insisting that it was.

    I wouldn't want to be a police officer. It is an almost impossible task, like being a minister but with lethal force involved, and so dependent on cues and miscues. So many killings by police of citizens are based on basic misunderstandings, miscues and misperceptions. Is it a cell phone or a firearm? A bag of candy or a knife, etc. Since law enforcement is anticipating lethal attacks against them, anxiety can make then hyper-vigilant. Then these turn-signal and lack of probable cause stops can turn into killings which are, except for the legal consideration, murders. I'm a senior white guy, but I don't for a nanosecond think I am immune from this kind of mistake. It's a death sentence pulled out of the lottery of life. Training on use of lethal force should be an ongoing training session for anyone who legally carries "heat."

    Very well said, mso

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  15. jpmcwjr

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    Timing! I was just stopped two miles from my home, first time in many years. I had made a left hand turn from the straight ahead lane, and a quarter mile later, lights on. Signalled right turn, then another, then into a parking stall at a supermarket. All during which I was thinking how I was going to explain how there was no traffic in any direction; I signaled; I'd use less gas than sitting idling waiting for the light to change to to straight across, (which is patriotic!!) and.... So he pulls into a spot across the way and it looked like he was turning around, going on another mission. But no, he pointed to me, so I wait next to the car, pipe smoldering. I smile wanly. He brightly walks up, and says....."Say, I see you have paper plates." So it was about not having the plates on a newish car. WHEW! I thought briefly about saying "Glad you didn't see me at 60 through the 30 zone and the three stop signs I ran"- nice humor! But thought better of that. I showed him the plates in their envelop in the trunk, and said I'd go right home and put them on as the dealer failed to do so. He smiled and asked "Do you want a ticket today?" Thank heavens he was joking..... And he didn't care one bit about the pipe, but I was ready to extinguish it promptly.....

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  16. voorhees

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    Sorry to hear of your experience. I know I would have quickly placed my pipe in the nearest bin or door pocket. That's just me, but I know you forget you even have it clenched in your teeth. The guy was wrong and I think he figured it out, but kept up the "tough guy" routine as to not appear the dipshit he was.

    Jason
    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  17. paulie66scandinavian

    Paul

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    Meanwhile here, no police officer would not ask you to extinguish Your pipe or cigarette because of a vehicle is considered an extension of Your home or private businesses, and if they do act strictly by rules law enforcement does not have a right to execute a search in private or business owned vehicles if they don't have to present search warrants, an exclusion to this rule is Customs authorities they can examine vehicles whenever they might want no matter the location.

    Paul The Scandinavian'
    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  18. mso489

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    In a tribute to police I'd say, it is a wise thing if response time is sufficiently low, to call 911 and have a professional handle a problem if possible. The local police know their frequent offenders, but they also know the local people with mental health problems or intellectual handicaps who could look dangerous but likely aren't, before they get killed by some householder defending the property and residents. You might get off, but I for one wouldn't want to make the decision and be wrong. A question: Why are the police so interested in having cigarettes and pipes put out? Why is that a first request? Seems a little irrelevant, whatever else is going on. Clearly, it is often the beginning of a bad result. Besides which, it puts you in motion and something in your hand, neither of which seems like a good idea at that moment. A reason I'm glad I don't smoke and drive generally, except for a cigar when I drive after lunch on a long road trip to boost my staying awake.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  19. bnichols23

    Bill Nichols

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    Not being an LEO I obviously don't know for sure, but I'm betting part of their training is that once you've elevated a situation never back down, since it makes you look indecisive. Me, I'll do whatever the guy says, especially if I see the keeper strap undone. Don't need no high-speed lead therapy today, thankyouverymuch.

    B

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  20. olkofri

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    "Smoking apparatus"??

    What a pompous doofus.

    Not the sweet, new grass with flowers is this harvesting of mine;
    Not the upland clover bloom...
    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  21. crashthegrey

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    That's a tough position. I wouldn't have anywhere to dump it. I would probably just put my palm over it. I just had this sort of thing happen at a local cigarette store. I was buying some codger blend to remind them that we exist, but apparently they are no smoking now. I was asked to put my pipe out, palmed it for a second and tossed it in my pocket. Note there were no new signs saying that I couldn't smoke. He was annoyed with me and took me to the counter to get what I wanted. I don't mind skipping lines but this seemed unnecessary to the poor folks in front of me.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  22. cosmicfolklore

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    Thanks guys,
    Funny, it has always been my experience that even at my own front door of my home officers will ask me to put out whatever I am smoking. I'm not sure why; some officers I know are smokers. It must just be something they are trained to do. Or, maybe I am just so sexy while I smoke my pipe that it distracts the officers.

    It is always worded as a request, but if you don't, obviously it is reworded. Yeh, I know that the side of the road isn't the best place to work out problems, but I also know that in my town, the city Judge has never ruled against one of his own officers. I am friends with our city prosecutors, and we have had that discussion. Witnesses, evidence, it would take a lot to get him to take the word of anyone over a sworn officer of the law. So, it's just a matter of luck.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  23. bnichols23

    Bill Nichols

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    must just be something they are trained to do.

    Could well be. With hot ash & such, it *is* possibly a weapon, after all.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  24. ophiuchus

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    Ultimately, your decision to cooperate was wise.

    If one has a beef later, one can always follow up, but by cooperating during the stop, you avoid a potential world of grief.

    It still sucks ...

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  25. mso489

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    It's a little too long, but maybe there should be a blend called "Stop In The Name of the Law."

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  26. olkofri

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    "Stop In The Name of the Law."

    That'll soon be a warning label on the tins.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  27. brian64

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    This may help shed some light on it:

    Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops

    A man whose bid to become a police officer was rejected after he scored too high on an intelligence test has lost an appeal in his federal lawsuit against the city.

    The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York upheld a lower court’s decision that the city did not discriminate against Robert Jordan because the same standards were applied to everyone who took the test.

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836&cid=share_facebook_widget

    “Bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.” – George Carlin
    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  28. olkofri

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    Goons are only effective if they can't think.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  29. folanator

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    May or not be pertinent, but how tall was this person? I always seem to pick the 5'4" cop with an attitude to pull me over.

    I never even got to tell him about my firearm. That might have taken some of the focus off of my pipe. But, with the way this guys was bunking everything up, I may have gotten shot in taking it to that point.

    I almost split a gut on that. lol

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  30. hoosierpipeguy

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    A very general statement to put your life on the line for. Your "legal advise", freely offered as it is, is very general and each situation is different and each is judged individually. Your "right" to privacy is well defined in most courts and "your right to privacy" is totally dependent on the circumstances of each confrontation.

    It was not my intent to provide legal advice to everyone else but to offer how I would look at it. Whenever I'm pulled over, I immediately set my cigar or pipe in the car ashtray and as the officer is coming to my vehicle, I open both front windows to be rid of the smoke. I think keeping a cigar or pipe going in my mouth, so smoke is wafting up in the officer's face, is asking for trouble. I've been pulled over at least half a dozen times when I was smoking and have never been confronted about it. I also always put both hands on the top of the steering wheel to make it clear I'm not hiding a weapon. If it is night time, I turn on the interior lights. I do not volunteer there is a weapon in the vehicle but will affirm there is if asked.

    Sounds like in Cosmic's case, it was a City Cop which worry me a lot more than Sheriffs or State Troopers. The latter two are much more experienced, in general, and more professional. Seems like when I exhibit a clear intention to be cooperative, they haven't shown any inclination to flex their muscles. I hope it continues that way if the circumstances arise. I also wouldn't physically resist or confront them under just about any circumstances. If they pushed it, I'd submit and thankfully, have the means to attempt to punish them in court.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  31. canadianpuffer

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    I don’t smoke in my car, but with Ontario’s strict distracted driving law I don’t want to give them something to complain about. Cigarettes and vapes are tolerated, but pipe lighting and tamping might get unwanted attention!

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  32. User has not uploaded an avatar

    instymp

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    Sounds like the officer was one of the few that most don't like & having a bad day.
    Maybe his wife beat him up earlier.
    Funny how many of us question ourselves after an incident like yours & wonder why you handled it perfectly instead of....

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  33. cosmicfolklore

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    Thanks fellows. Ha, I have no idea how tall he was, as I was seated and he was standing, but I know what you are getting at. He is probably that city's Barney Fife.
    Yeh, I did everything right if I can drive away, but with an odd feeling as if I had just been forced to humiliate myself at gunpoint. But, it's just a feeling. I still drive pretty carefully on the roads, except on the interstate, which is pretty much clear sailing at whatever speed you want to drive. It's been a tad over 20 years since I have had a ticket.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  34. brian64

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    Cosmic didn't want to tell anyone, but he actually did manage to get a short clip with his cell camera of the "public servant":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jby8B7vaPc

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  35. cosmicfolklore

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    Ha ha, the video has leaked...

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  36. warren

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    The dumb and stupid officers, of which we had our fair share, don't need excuses. We just tried to weed them out as their real character appeared. Union rules though, meant many had to be sent to records or PR or, some other "rubber gun squad". to live of the largess of the taxpayers. Yes, most larger departments do have a "rubber gun squad." The smaller ones, unfortunately, do not. So they live with them until the guy fouls up enough to terminate. Some even make it to retirement ... the "Grace of God" and all of that. Maybe the Mayor's son-in-law or some such.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  37. verporchting

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    Sorry about your FVF and the bad experience, but you got home safe and sound to enjoy another pipe, and he got home an A-hole with whatever it is that A-holes get home to.

    Tomorrow you can go buy more FVF and he will still be an A-hole.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  38. skydog

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    I'll say I recently had a run in with law enforcement over a burnt out license plate light. My fault for not checking but the guy was kind enough to let me off with a warning. He did ask if all the pipes which were easily visible within my reach were only for tobacco and I had a good chuckle.

    I know there are some crazy folks out there but honestly I feel like it's somewhat of a feedback loop of police being distrusting of the public and ending up shooting an innocent person and then innocent people being distrusting of police. We're all human but in my opinion the unyielding force of the government should be held to a higher standard. People often forget the second part of the phrase "a bad apple spoils the whole bunch." To stand by and allow rottenness makes you no better than the bad apple itself.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  39. ashdigger

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    police being distrusting of the public and ending up shooting an innocent person

    That's not how it works, unless you watch too much TV.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  40. warren

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    Yup! TV is not your friend if your are seeking facts. Their job is to sell advertising by attracting audiences, building numbers. Again, it all boils done to questioning what you read, hear and see. Hopefully, by refusing to accept what you are fed, at face value, truth will be eventually uncovered. And ... doing that is way to hard or troublesome for many people.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  41. skydog

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    That's not how it works, unless you watch too much TV.

    Yup! TV is not your friend if your are seeking facts. Their job is to sell advertising by attracting audiences, building numbers. Again, it all boils done to questioning what you read, hear and see. Hopefully, by refusing to accept what you are fed, at face value, truth will be eventually uncovered. And ... doing that is way to hard or troublesome for many people.

    We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't watch TV or any other form of mass media news. This opinion of mine is based solely on available body-cam videos of wrongful police shootings that I have ran across. It's wonderful being in the 21st century where you can see exactly what the police were seeing when they pulled the trigger. Obviously not every person shot by the police is innocent but what is your threshold for acceptable shootings of innocent people?

    I didn't mean to go off an this tangent in this thread by the way. Just the first thing that generally pops in my head when law enforcement interactions come up in discussion because of how final that type of mistake is. Like I said before, in my opinion that type of absolute power should come with being held to a higher standard.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  42. jvnshr

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    What an adventure Michael! I am glad that road police in Azerbaijan don't carry a gun. They are not even allowed to ask you to leave your car.

    Javan
    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  43. bnichols23

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    I also always put both hands on the top of the steering wheel

    Same here, hpg. I also (& NO, I DON'T get pulled over on a regular basis, you goofs!) get my wallet out & put it on the dashboard while I'm slowing down to pull over. And yup, interior lights on too. I once had a car where the previous owner had tinted the windows, & the one time I got pulled over in it, I put the left rear window down too. Didn't keep that one long.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  44. cosmicfolklore

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    Funny to think that we feel like we've survived something that should be routine. I'm pretty sure that I wasn't going to resist enough of anything asked to do to warrant getting shot. I mean, he didn't ask me to eat the ashes or anything... but it was close, or felt like it, ha ha.

    I'm just glad someone is out there doing a job that I wouldn't want to do. I'd be one of those cops that preferred to take advantage of free doughnut day at the deli.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  45. warren

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    what is your threshold for acceptable shootings of innocent people?

    It's simple really, the law. It's all we really have. I certainly wouldn't make a determination based on a few seconds of body cam or cell phone video and/or the accompanying voice over or pundit opinion. And, understand, I'm not in any way implying there are not "bad" shootings. And, you rarely see the footage of the "shooting that was justified and never happened." So, your viewpoint, valid as it may be, is "colored" as so much is missing from the entire circumstance.

    Michael, I greatly doubt that would be your preference if you were "on the job." Pastries are great but, nothing close to saving a life or, reuniting a child with a mother or, any number of the rewarding actions that accompany the "job."

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
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    aldecaker

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    "what is your threshold for acceptable shootings of innocent people?"

    I guess I'm kind of a hardass about it, but mine is pretty low. I'm pretty skeptical of anyone being generally "innocent", anyway, but on the side of the road or at a public disturbance is not the place to argue your 1st, 2nd, 4th Amendment or any other rights. We have a system, and in that system the courts are where you do that. If everyone who thinks they are in the right simply doesn't have to comply with a LEO's requests, we have chaos, and few among us want that. "I'm not going to put my hands in the air because I didn't do anything wrong"? Are you freakin' kidding me? At that point, you deserve to be shot for sheer stupidity, if nothing more. Cops react to situations as they are unfolding and try to get them under control. The details, by necessity, are to be sorted out later in quieter, less chaotic circumstances.

    Or, maybe I'm just lucky. I've gone 46 years and only very rarely been randomly shot by an enraged cop.

    A man who serves his country is a patriot. A man who serves his government is an employee. The two are not always the same thing.
    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  47. hoosierpipeguy

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    I agree with the acceptable shooting thing. Why people want to physically attempt to resist arrest, not put their hands in the air or drop their gun or any of that is beyond me. That ends badly 99.99% of the time. From most of the videos I've seen, the police officers involved have generally went further than I would in applying lethal force. I've thankfully only been involved in traffic violations but I've witnessed a few minor encounters in bars or other places. In my experience the police officers have always been polite and more patient than I would have expected or was justified IMHO.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  48. cosmicfolklore

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    This really wasn't where I was wanting this to go. This is getting into areas where opinions are hot... and I can't stand people with opinions.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
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    aldecaker

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    Times change, interest rates fluctuate, threads meander...you know how it is.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  50. hoosierpipeguy

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    Cosmic, if you provide more precise instructions on how you want the members to respond to your posts .... in all likelihood, we'll ignore you, as usual, and post whatever we wish.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  51. cosmicfolklore

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    I'm just giving a heads up that you guys are walking the political line on this one. And, I would hate to know what one of you thinks politically speaking. It just ruins my opinions of people to know that they are political.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  52. paulie66scandinavian

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    Correct me If I'm wrong but my understanding is that in the States to get a job in City Police is not too difficult ,so presumably general requirements for new recruits are kept pretty basic otherwise no would want to enlist there due to pretty low wages and shift work whereas State Trooper Divisions and Marshal Services are much more demanding when it comes to hiring and only a very few among potential applicants would qualify

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
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    aldecaker

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    Well, Cos, that would be a verrrrry broad use of the word "political", but it could be considered controversial, and that's close enough to get a shutdown usually. So, point well taken.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  54. cosmicfolklore

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    Not every city has the same requirements, but most here require at least a two-year degree. That is for a local policeman for a city. Then to be a Sherrif, you have to do training and make it through a course to qualify. But, here in Alabama, you can just warden a jail for a few years and then get promoted into the sherrif's dept. And, yes to be a state trooper requires a degree and many hours of training and professional development.

    Our policemen do pretty well. Our city policemen drive Lexus and live in the $250,000 and up neighborhoods, Sherrifs do even better, but I am pretty sure that State Troopers don't make as much. I don't know for sure, but I think they make about as much as a teacher, which is like $28,000 a year.

    City police and sheriffs make their money on seizing properties of those that they suspect of drug dealing. Suspicion is enough in our state. It doesn't require a conviction, and they don't have to give it back if found innocent. They can fund their whole departments this way. But, state troopers don't have that luxury... and there are way less of them in my state. We barely have any state police force at all. This is why it is ok to speed on the interstate, because I have never seen a state trooper on it... in like twenty years of driving on it. Expect 100mph speeds at mid day.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  55. didimauw

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    Cosmic, stop acting like a teenager, and you will stop getting pulled over and treated like one! Haha you damn kids these days...

    "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  56. warren

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    Way too general on the assumptions Paul. My department, a city one, was among, still is I think, one of the highest paid in the US. Required for employment is a written test (pass/fail), a physical agility and endurance test (pass/fail), psychological screening, oral interviews, background check (work history, interviews of friends, relatives, co-workers, and past employers), medical exam and a polygraph (lie detector, pass/fail)examination. When I was doing the pre-employment screening I might start with a pool of 1200 applicants (those that passed the initial written examination) for six openings on the department. Of that starting number I might have 25 eligible for hire at the send of the cycle.

    Every state, I believe, now requires a "state certification prior to employment or, upon graduation from an accredited academy. Of course, the requirements of such a certification vary widely from state to state. The US Marshals Service is the Federal Government's "police department" and their pre-hiring requirements were less stringent than my Department's was at that time.

    Law Enforcement, as a profession, unfortunately attracts all sorts of weirdos of which most are screened out early. This no different from other professions, teaching, nursing, doctors, shrinks, politicians, producers, etc. where the practitioner has the client/perp/patient/student/customer at a disadvantage from the initial contact. It takes a certain personality to not abuse that situation at times. Some have it ... some don't.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  57. hoosierpipeguy

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    Law Enforcement, as a profession, unfortunately attracts all sorts of weirdos of which most are screened out early.

    There is no escaping the 95/5 rule. Regardless of race, religion, creed, culture, profession, etc., around 95% of all people are good people and 5% are A-holes.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
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    aldecaker

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    Your charitable estimate tells me you are a man brimful with the milk of human kindness, Hoosier!

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  59. hoosierpipeguy

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    I realize my numbers may be a bit on the optimistic side aldecaker.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  60. brian64

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    City police and sheriffs make their money on seizing properties of those that they suspect of drug dealing. Suspicion is enough in our state. It doesn't require a conviction, and they don't have to give it back if found innocent. They can fund their whole departments this way.

    Yes, the policies governing so-called "asset forfeiture" are a huge problem...and one of the biggest reasons for corruption in law enforcement.

    As for cases of wrongful use of force, the militarization of police training...and of police in general...over the last few decades, mostly in the name of the so-called "war on drugs" is what has led to numerous incidents of overreaction...sometimes deadly overreaction.

    As Skydog said, there have been many videos of blatantly unjustified use of force...shootings as well as other tactics.

    But most of the worst of these cases have NOT been the ones that were widely publicized by the MSM.

    I do believe that the great majority of "LEOs" are good guys...but there is a tendency for them to circle the wagons any time one of their comrades does something indefensible.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
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    instymp

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    hoosierpipeguy...I was guessing less than 5%.

    But whatever # it is sure stands out & gets the attention.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  62. cosmicfolklore

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    Oh come on... good people can be assholes too.
    Give me a bus load of assholes over being trapped in a car with one self-righteous man.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  63. brian64

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    Give me a bus load of assholes over being trapped in a car with one self-righteous man.

    God I hope those aren't the only 2 choices.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  64. cosmicfolklore

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    God I hope those aren't the only 2 choices.

    ...just on the forums.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  65. brian64

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    ...just on the forums.

    Yeah I guess everyone else has either been banned or is smart enough to remain a lurker.

    Actually though, the more I think about it, I'm not sure there is a significant distinction between an asshole and a self-righteous individual.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  66. ashdigger

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    A self-righteousness individual is just an asshole in training.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  67. brian64

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    A self-righteousness individual is just an asshole in training.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  68. hoosierpipeguy

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    Give me a bus load of assholes over being trapped in a car with one self-righteous man.

    That could be the line on a future top rated meme.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #
  69. ashdigger

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    Posted 3 weeks ago #
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    frozenchurchwarden

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    A self-righteousness individual is just an asshole in training.

    I’d say the self-righteous man is more like the final form of asshole. He’s so far down the hole (no pun intended) that he can’t even see what he’s truly become. I think Cosmic’s original point is that a bus full of abrasive but honest people is better than one polite man who silently hates everything.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #

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