Twenty Stabbings at High School

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dragonslayer

Lifer
Dec 28, 2012
1,026
7
Pittsburgh
I know most of you already know all about this tragic event. I'm only posting this because it's the school district next to mine, in fact about 15 miles away from my house. This school district is the super money school. Doctors, lawyers, bankers etc... Just as an example they scout and move families from around the country for their football team. They provide houses and jobs for the family. Now would you call that a high end school? The amazing thing is Gateway school district where I live is almost as bad when it comes to football. Ten years ago they put 11 million into a sports complex. Football is everything in Southwest PA. To have this happen at Franklin and not at Gateway, surprised me as we have had knifings... Blows my mind. :crazy:
Craig

 

ravenwolf

Can't Leave
Mar 18, 2014
302
0
Terrible tragedy. Also horrible that nobody felt compelled to stop him, like petes03 says. Both things blow my mind.

 

grouchydog

Can't Leave
Oct 16, 2013
413
1
That's my alma mater, my mother still lives in Murrysville. The whole community is in shock over this.

 

tbradsim1

Lifer
Jan 14, 2012
9,093
11,012
Southwest Louisiana
I feel for the parents, and the ones who were hurt, but as Gen Honerea said when he came to New Orleans to put order in place. ( You Can't Fix Stupid ),Nuff Said.

 

youngsterpuffer

Starting to Get Obsessed
Sep 3, 2013
116
0
I'm shocked too. Franklin regional is just about 20 minutes away from where I live. Some of the girlfriends of the stabbing victims go to school with my girlfriend. What a tragedy.

 

igloo

Lifer
Jan 17, 2010
4,083
5
woodlands tx
When I was going to high school in the early 80s in the Texas hill country we all had Guns in our pickups and sharp pocket knives in our pockets .The teachers would grab you up by the collar and drag you to the principles office where you would be paddled with a board if you stepped out of line .The counselor gave everyone hugs everyday whether you wanted one or not .We were taught to respect and the people we respected only wanted the best for us .Today kids do what they want without fear of punishment and there lies the problem .

 

grouchydog

Can't Leave
Oct 16, 2013
413
1
Yep, that's how it was at Franklin in the 80's. My best friend openly carried a 4-inch Buck lockback in a belt sheath all day, every day and nobody said a word. But if you got caught with a chew in your mouth, you were in for a rough time... :)

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
It seems that some young people go into total disconnect (or fall into the grip of evil, if that's not to

draconian) before anyone knows they have a problem. The parents, older siblings, friends and relatives

are just not paying close attention enough to know anything is wrong until there's carnage. I'm not a

parent, so I'm in no position to coach or criticize, but I think most of us were fortunate enough to have

supervision, expectations, and demands placed on us before we did anything really awful. I'm so grateful

for that. Discerning a motive with these incidents seems to dead-end at infantile rage. Okay, so now we

know skinny innocuous looking kids can stab numerous people; we have to deal with that, beginning with

parents. For example, we have no proof that violent video games contribute to actual violence, but if

I were a parent, I'd confiscate those. Freedom of speech ends with dad. Sometimes concern, even if

it's misdirected, will impress kids with the idea that other people count, and that one is accountable.

 

grouchydog

Can't Leave
Oct 16, 2013
413
1
I think too many parents these days are more concerned with being their kids' friends than being proper role models, coaches/mentors and restraining influences. Kids are not adults and are not their parents' peers.
I *HATE* the phenomenon of violent video games. Although you're right in that there's no proof of a connection (other than anecdotal, possibly) I absolutely believe that they contribute to youth violence. Why would Grand Theft Auto or some such crap affect someone differently from, say, a video-based flight-training simulator?
"Freedom of speech ends with dad" - spectacular quote!

 

psychpipes

Can't Leave
Sep 4, 2013
321
102
36
Nature Coast of Florida
I *HATE* the phenomenon of violent video games. Although you're right in that there's no proof of a connection (other than anecdotal, possibly) I absolutely believe that they contribute to youth violence. Why would Grand Theft Auto or some such crap affect someone differently from, say, a video-based flight-training simulator?

I have been a school psychologist for 4 years now. I also spent 2 years as a DCF investigator. I don't claim to know everything, or to even be close. What I do know is what I have seen from experience in several different school and home settings. There is a long standing debate about nature vs. nurture in the world of behavior with most experts taking a middle road approach rather than a polar position. That is, that behavior seems to be shaped by both. In my experience, I have found that the majority of students that I work with that have behavioral issues come from poor environments (nurture). I don't mean poor as in low socio-economic status (although it definitely can be a factor), but that the parents/homes/communities are not acceptable for a child. I would say 9 times out of 10 this has been the case in my experience. Parents are one of the biggest factors in the behavior of a child. I have dealt with lazy parents, abusive parents, parents who lack knowledge and skills, and parents that genuinely don't care. I've even dealt with parents that try to get their kids classified as disabled just for a government check. Nothing can affect the behavior of a child like parents can.
While I despise the argument that violent video games are at the root of the increase in school violence, I will chime in here. It is not a video game that causes the issue because it can do no harm without a human influence. All video games have an ERSB rating indicating what age groups the game is appropriate for. Video games are something that parents need to work with their child on.

When my dad gave me my first gun (a .22), he told me that a gun was a tool and not a weapon. He showed me how to be safe with it and clearly defined what it was allowed to be used for. When he wasn't out with me, the gun was locked in a safe. By the same token, I am a lifetime gamer. My parents allowed me to play violent games and watch R rated movies (depending on what they were). I did not go around acting out what I played and saw because my parents took responsibility. They screened games and movies. If it was something that I really wanted to play or watch, then they would start off by playing/watching with me in order to provide the proper prospective. They also did not expect a TV or game system to raise me for them. They limited my time doing both.
The lack of effective parenting skills is why we have incidences like this. Unfortunately, most humans are not ready to or refuse to look internally for the source of a problem. In my opinion, having children should be run similarly to how some religions handle marriage: People have to take a class before they can begin. Mandate some community parenting classes, and I can guarantee things would improve. Start holding parents accountable for issues with their children, and teach parents that they must contribute to the solving of those problems.
TL;DR I like to talk. I believe that parenting skills are the main problem.

 

appointed

Starting to Get Obsessed
Mar 8, 2013
117
0
I agree with Psychpipes. I think violent video games are just used as a scapegoat. If anything the ERSB is overzealous. They actually rate hunting games T for teen because they contain "violence" and "blood". While that really irritates me it also proves that there is no excuse for parents. They should know what games their children are playing and what movies they are watching. I played violent video games when I was younger and I did not turn into a violent sociopath. I believe if it does contribute to someone going on a stabbing or shooting spree that they are already severely unhinged to begin with. The thing is though, despite playing games like that, I was always able to distinguish between fantasy and reality. I had grandparents and other people who were good role models. They taught me right from wrong and senseless violence was not tolerated. Too many parents either don't care or want to their kid's friends. They will see their child going down the wrong path and refuse to correct the behavior because they're afraid of hurting their child's feelings. The problem gets even worse that many of these kids are not in church and the school systems teach this nonsense about moral relativity. Everyone is right and morality is whatever you define it as. See the problem there? We got a whole generation of kids who lack discipline and any real sense of morality. Something has got to give or society will just continue to circle the drain before it finally goes under. I do not mean to rant, but not just parents, but we as a society really need to step up and make some changes. Banning guns and knives and enacting all kinds of laws is quite clearly not working. Just a few years ago when my parents went to school it was perfectly acceptable to have a gun in your car as many of the students went hunting after school. There were never any problems. That should tell us all that the problem lies in that we lack virtue. We do not have a gun, knife or mental health or violent video game problem. We have a lack of responsibility problem. That is how I see it anyhow.

 

grouchydog

Can't Leave
Oct 16, 2013
413
1
We agree, hence the first part of my statement. I don't think that the games CAUSE the violent behaviour - i think they're one more variable in a complex equation of parenting (or lack thereof), culture, inborn personality traits and a hundred other things. As you say, effective parenting is the root.
I would consider exposure to violent media a facet of parenting with effective decisions based on the child's tendencies and temptations, reactions, maturity, etc. In short, some kids can handle it, some can't and it's the up to parents to decide appropriately.
My personal take is that there's nothing beneficial in any way about a form of "entertainment" that involves simulated violence and mayhem. At best it's a non-influence on a particular child or teen. IMHO, YMMV, etc.

 

grouchydog

Can't Leave
Oct 16, 2013
413
1
@Appointed, well said on all points.
I may appear to be fixated on the games - I am not. I simply find them reprehensible and without merit - that is my personal opinion, and others differ. Again, they're one variable in a complex equation and may be one factor in pushing an already on-the-edge kid over that edge.

 

nsfisher

Lifer
Nov 26, 2011
3,566
20
Nova Scotia, Canada
I believe that parenting skills are the main problem.
Indeed, quite true, but...........
Today's society is to blame for lack of parenting skills.

Parents do not discipline children today. They are simply NOT ALLOWED. Small Children who misbehave are put in a "time out" chair(what a pile of crap). No longer is a swat on the ass acceptable, just try sending a child to bed without supper, nowadays. Children are taught, from infancy, that they may do as they please, with no repremands other than "Mommy doesn't appreciate it when you talk to her that way", or "You should be nicer to your Brother/Sister". A temper tantrum in public receives the punishment of "Use your words, use your words". Good Lord, no wonder, as the Child grows older, they lose respect for their Parents, and other Adults, including their Teachers. How is a Teen able to respect you when you finally take a stand and say, "Your behaviour is unacceptable, you are Grounded for the Weekend". If, and I say if, your Teen looks at you and says, Fuck off, I am going out with Friends, exactly what are your options now? You actually have NONE. I know many of you are going to say, "My Kids weren't that way, bla, bla. YES they were. After they become young adults, thank God they finally begin to come around and actually appreciate what we did as Parents.

 

psychpipes

Can't Leave
Sep 4, 2013
321
102
36
Nature Coast of Florida
I simply find them reprehensible and without merit...
I agree with you here as well. Our society (and I include myself in this) is very addicted to entertainment. Unfortunately, for many, violence and sexual content are the most feeding to that addiction. I think I just have a hard time believing that there really is an increase in exposure to violence and sexuality. Probably because I'm part of the millennial generation that has had the heaviest media exposure for our entire lives. I remember all my comics and shows being equally violent when I was growing up, especially what was marketed to kids. Batman the Animated Series and Gargoyles are two shows that come to mind. You are also right about exposure being a single variable in a much larger equation.

 

grouchydog

Can't Leave
Oct 16, 2013
413
1
The difference between comics and shows and video games is participation. Comics and shows are passive - you look at them and they entertain you. With the games, you're part of the action, making decisions on who dies, when and how. As someone noted, if you can effectively differentiate between fantasy and reality then it may have little or no effect. The kids who CAN'T make that separation are the ones at risk.

 

psychpipes

Can't Leave
Sep 4, 2013
321
102
36
Nature Coast of Florida
Parents do not discipline children today. They are simply NOT ALLOWED. Small Children who misbehave are put in a "time out" chair(what a pile of crap). No longer is a swat on the ass acceptable, just try sending a child to bed without supper, nowadays.
While you make excellent points about truths here, I don't see the parental problem here being something based in society. The things you've listed look like a performance and skill deficit to me. I think that the problem is knowledge of effective behavioral techniques. In truth, a threat of my Dad's belt as a child was enough to keep me in line in most cases, but research has shown that non violent behavioral techniques are far more effective. It is also a common misconception that modern behavioral techniques are effectively bribing children.
Research-based techniques like "time out" often don't work because they are not implemented effectively. Parents have to look for the function of a child's behavior rather than using a blanket discipline. Functions of behavior are generally broken down in to 4 parts:
Attention: the child wants peer or adult attention.

Escape/Avoidance- the child wants to escape/avoid an undesired activity or task.

Tangibles- the child wants a certain item or to do a certain task.

Sensory- the child wants certain sensory stimulation.
Here is an example of a scenario using the above concept. You ask your child to clean their room. The child is currently playing video games. The child is non-compliant, and continues to play games. You could threaten you kid or spank them, basically coercion and fear. Or you could TRAIN your kid to WANT to clean their room. This is what I would suggest using behavior shaping techniques:
1. Tell the child that he must clean his room. I would let him know that I will be taking the video game until his room is cleaned. I will say that he cannot return to the game until I check his room and approve it. If he throws a temper tantrum or begins to argue, I will ignore his behavior.

2. If his behavior escalates after I take the game, I will continue to ignore him. Escalation is common especially if throwing a tantrum in the past would have gotten him back his game. The child is behaving that way because he wants access to tangibles, therefore, I would continue to make it clear that a clean room is the only way for him to get what he wants. I would then hold firm to my decision.

3. I would inspect the clean room, and make him meet all standards by continuing to withhold his game. Once he finished cleaning, I would give him back his game and praise him for calming down and complying with my demand.
So what happened here? Function is desire for tangible-->desired activity is taken away until compliance--> undesired behavior (tantrum) is not reinforced-->preferred behavior (compliance) is reinforced--> child is rewarded with desired activity for demonstrating the correct behavior.
Unfortunately, many parents break down and don't stick to their guns, they use the wrong discipline for the behavior, or they forget to reinforce the child when they perform as they are expected. This doesn't mean giving them something every time, but can take the form of verbal praise or shared time with the parent. Liken child behavior to training a dog. If you beat (old punishment method) the dog you will get poor results. Maybe quick compliance, but not the same result. This is the reason why my dog for example, will come to me when he's done something wrong and my dad's will cower and run if she is in trouble. My dog doesn't fear me, he is trained to obey.
Wow, tangent. Sorry folks haha!

 
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