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Tool for Curling a Pipe Band?

(26 posts)
  • Started 4 months ago by archaeodane
  • Latest reply from archaeodane
  1. archaeodane

    archaeodane

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    Hi everyone,

    I've got a pipe that I'm working on right now. I'm replacing the stem and I want to put an army mount on it. I ordered a band that's straight and I was wondering how I could curl one side of it. How can I go about doing that? Or do I just need to buy a different band that's pre-curled?

    Thanks?

    Smoke your pipe and be silent; there's only wind and smoke in the world. ~Irish Proverb
    Posted 4 months ago #
  2. haparnold

    Hap

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    What do you mean by 'curl'? Do you mean you want to turn a straight stem into a bent stem? If so, I believe the usual procedure is to soften the Vulcanite in hot water until pliable, then bending by hand until the desired curvature is reached.

    Never done the job myself, but I've seen it done. Don't remember any other steps or tools.

    De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum
    Posted 4 months ago #
  3. bassbug

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    If you're referring to the metal band around the end of the stummel/shank like the ones on Peterson pipes, it depends on the metal you have. Sterling silver is soft enough to use a leather mallet to form it to the exact shape. Brass or copper and various alloys of them will probably need to be annealed to soften them so that you can use that leather mallet to form them. I would definitely make a form from wood that matches the shape of your shank. I don't think you want to do the rough forming on the actual pipe.

    I've never made a metal band for a pipe but I have formed metals to compound curves and it does take practice.

    I don't care who you are, you're not walking on the water while I'm fishing
    Posted 4 months ago #
  4. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

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    Hammering out the ferrule band by hand is probably one of the harder anticlastic metal forming techniques, usually taken up by metalsmiths after years of hand-forging experience. Most of these are press-formed using a dap and die in a hydraulic press. It would be a skill that the efforts and time to to learn would greatly outweigh the return on investment for just one pipe.
    But, if you wanted just one tool to help you with this, I would recommend a dap set. Harbor Freight has some reasonably priced ones... But, this is sort of like recommending someone get a soldering iron to build a robot. There is a lot of other stuff you would need to know. But, I have no idea what you level of expertise is with working with metals.

    Michael
    Posted 4 months ago #
  5. sasquatch

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    Yeah, the shouldered "caps" are spun, and you won't have any success at all taking a straight band and trying to fold it over, that's just not how these are done.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  6. ericusrex

    ericusrex

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    I remember seeing how Peterson does this in a factory tour video. You may be able to find it on youtube. They do it on a metal lathe. I remember the video stating that this silversmith had to apprentice for years before getting it right. Good luck....

    Posted 4 months ago #
  7. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    These guys know of what they speak.

    Can one purchase such a cap?

    OP- Then you'd still want (need?) to shape the shank to accept the curved mount, no?

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 4 months ago #
  8. archaeodane

    archaeodane

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    Hey everyone, thanks for the responses.

    It is obvious that I need to better explain what it is I'm trying to accomplish as I certainly didn't do a very good job articulating myself previously.

    So, I have a straight nickel band like this:
    https://imgur.com/gallery/gxlAVbg

    And I am looking to give it a slight curl on one edge so that it fits over the terminal end of the shank as it does with this pipe:
    https://imgur.com/gallery/Kz2UdBZ

    As you can see, it's not really a big modification. I am operating under the assumption that if bands aren't readily available machined like the one on my pipe in the second photo, then making the necessary modification should not be difficult. That assumption, however, may be erroneous. To date, I've found neither an online or B&M merchant that sells any bands that aren't just straight tubes like the one in my first photo. I've also had no luck finding any videos or articles that allude to the shaping of such a band.

    Now, a dap set, at a glance, looks like the right tool for the job. However, I freely admit that I am very new to this sort of thing and I can't be certain that I'm understanding the purpose of the dapping block.

    Hopefully I have done a better job of explaining myself this time around. If I have, then my questions are as follows:

    Is the dapping block what I need to reshape the band that I have into the shape I have pictured above? And if so, is that procedure terribly difficult?

    And

    Regardless of the answer to the previous questions, where online could I find bands that are already machined into the shape I require? I've looked around Vermont Freehand's website and only found straight tubular bands. I also tried the website for Pipe Maker's Emporium, but it's under construction.

    My apologies, this post has been difficult to explain adequately because I've largely lacked the necessary vocabulary for describing what I want to do. I've tried to fill the lexical gaps as best I could, but searching around the internet is difficult in such cases because it's often very difficult to search for terms you don't know using the few terms you do know but have so broad an application that they bring up plenty of unrelated results (e.g. searching for "army mount pipe" brings up a lot of results about military cavalry and searching for "tool for curling metal bands" brings up results about hair curling irons and bicep curls).

    Thanks again everyone.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  9. haparnold

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    Oh, band! I'm an idiot. I read your post and my brain said 'stem' even though my eyes said 'band'.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  10. cosmicfolklore

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    I understood what you wanted. First off, nickel is a pain in the ass to work with. It is probably not true nickel, as that would be brittle and crumble as you worked with it (and only available for industrial uses), but it is a white brass also called nickel brass or also German silver or pot metal. It won't easily fabricate like sterling or even regular brass.

    The anticlastic moving of the metal into two directions, inward and around, is difficult to do. Mostly, you will be pinching metal as you try to move it into the two directions. A lathe or a press would be ideal. But, that metal is going to be a pain in the ass.

    I could make the ferrule band for you, but you probably wouldn't want to pay me what I would require. PM me if interested.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  11. bassbug

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    All the above replies are absolutely correct. Forming metals is not an easy task, but it can be done. If you're curious enough to try it, I suggest you buy sterling silver tube in the right diameter, make a mock form that matches the shank and go at it with a leather mallet. Be prepared to ruin a number of attempts.

    If the pipe has great value to you, I'd suggest contacting Cosmic to do the work. From what I understand he has a lot of experience (probably a lot more than I do) in doing such things.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  12. georged

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    As you can see, it's not really a big modification.

    What a telling group of words.

    It hinges completely on WHAT one can see. Which are different things for different people, depending on the experiences they've had in their lives.

    You'd best listen to Cosmic, OP.

    Or, talk to Adam Davidson. A world-class American pipe maker who decided several years ago to add old-school-looking metal parts to some of his pipes---parts he shaped himself---and came away shaking his head and saying, "Not no, but HELL no... that shit's insane!"

    Dogs live such short lives... and spend most it waiting for us to come home
    Posted 4 months ago #
  13. dmcmtk

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    Cosmis know of what he speaks.

    I should also say there a silversmiths out there that could do it. Do you have the stem? Are you making/finishing it yourself?

    Dave
    Duke Street Irregular
    Posted 4 months ago #
  14. georged

    georged

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    Cosmis know of what he speaks.

    CosmiS?!

    Did that sneaky dog decide he's a girl again so he can qualify for the Friday drink specials at Hattie's?

    (This gender is business sure is confusing now that we can be whatever we want whenever we want...)

    Posted 4 months ago #
  15. ericusrex

    ericusrex

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G-LRKpVwH4

    1:23 mark.

    Again, good luck!

    Posted 4 months ago #
  16. dmcmtk

    dmcmtk

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    Jaysus, I should have proofread that post more betterer! Sorry Mike.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  17. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

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    Ha ha!!

    Did that sneaky dog decide he's a girl again so he can qualify for the Friday drink specials at Hattie's?

    I gave up trying. It was just way too hard to shave my back.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  18. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

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    ericusrex, great video.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  19. jpmcwjr

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    Yes on the video. Almost looks easy if you have the gear and a few years experience!

    Posted 4 months ago #
  20. archaeodane

    archaeodane

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    Thanks everyone! It's actually really great to see how that's done. I was worried it might be as difficult as all that, but I was hoping that perhaps it was actually easier than I imagined.

    Knowing what I know now and considering the project I'm currently working on, I can assure everyone that it's not worth either the time or money required to do it myself or have someone else do it (but thanks for the offer Cosmic! Helpful people are what make this community a great one!)

    Since reshaping the band is too difficult/costly to be an option, does anyone know where I can find these for purchase?

    Posted 4 months ago #
  21. prairiedruid

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    Just an idea, it maybe the vodka talking, have you thought about copper? Hardware stores carry all sorts of copper fittings and looking at your example you could make it out of a copper end cap for water piping. You could make the hole on a lathe or drill press. Again just spit balling.....

    Posted 4 months ago #
  22. ssjones

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    That picture you included was on a Reborn Pipes blog entry on adding a metal band as a repair.
    Here's the rest of the blog entry, which shows the banding process (I've never done this)
    https://rebornpipes.com/2012/10/31/banding-a-cracked-shank-pressure-fitting-a-metal-band-on-a-pipe-shank/

    Al

    Posted 4 months ago #
  23. mso489

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    I think you are on the right track. As is often true, buying the right fitting is almost always less expensive and time consuming that buying the tools to make it, unless you plan to do this on many many pipes.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  24. archaeodane

    archaeodane

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    Just an idea, it maybe the vodka talking, have you thought about copper? Hardware stores carry all sorts of copper fittings and looking at your example you could make it out of a copper end cap for water piping. You could make the hole on a lathe or drill press. Again just spit balling.....

    That's not a bad idea, sadly I don't have either a drill press or a lathe much less the space to keep or use either tool.

    That picture you included was on a Reborn Pipes blog entry on adding a metal band as a repair.
    Here's the rest of the blog entry, which shows the banding process (I've never done this)
    https://rebornpipes.com/2012/10/31/banding-a-cracked-shank-pressure-fitting-a-metal-band-on-a-pipe-shank/

    Yep, that's where I got the photo from. Steve said in the post that he gets the bands from Pipe Maker's Emporium. I've tried their website and all I get is an "Under Construction" message. I'm not even sure if they're still in business, so I've been trying to see if anyone knows one way or the other with them or if they know of another place that sells the bands.

    I think you are on the right track. As is often true, buying the right fitting is almost always less expensive and time consuming that buying the tools to make it, unless you plan to do this on many many pipes.

    Do you know where I can buy the right piece?

    Posted 4 months ago #
  25. ssjones

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    Steve replied to your comment:

    Hi Tyrel. I get the bands from JH Lowe online. Sadly Pipe makers Emporium is no more.

    http://www.jhlowe.com/bands.htm

    Posted 4 months ago #
  26. archaeodane

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    Thanks ssjones! I hadn't gotten an email notification about his reply, so I hadn't checked back yet.

    Posted 4 months ago #

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