Tobacco Ageing
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There is no dumb question.
Most tins have a date on the back or bottom of the tin. Bulk? Your not going to know.
You'll get better answers than mine, with many more detail about this concept, but Aromatics don't do well in the years to come. Virginia's age the best, 10-12 years and beyond.
What type of tobacco do you have?
Most tins have a date on the back or bottom of the tin. Bulk? Your not going to know.
You'll get better answers than mine, with many more detail about this concept, but Aromatics don't do well in the years to come. Virginia's age the best, 10-12 years and beyond.
What type of tobacco do you have?
You double posted, so I am adding this here to this one as well. You know, just to make it more confusing for myself, ha ha.
Most tobaccos do not come straight from farmer to the tin. Most farmers will allow a crop to go through three sweats before taking it to market, which could take three years or more. Then, some will get aged in piles, being rotated on a schedule. Then some are... well, you get the picture. You don't know.
All tobacco sold is ready to smoke right away. The producers will tell you that it is best right off the shelf. Some do get better with age, which is subjective, because I have tasted some that sucked after aging, while other people said that it was amazing. Tillbury is one. Many people like it aged, and to me it tastes like dirt. The longer aged the more dirt-like.
So, it's subjective, and a gamble. Check out GLP's blog for some better insights into aging - http://www.glpease.com/
But, Brian Levine did a personal test of Escudo and found two years sufficient enough to break open your terrible two-sies to smoke, while others say no less than ten years.
There is no magic number. There is no absolute. You may like it better after aging, you may not. Everyone's taste buds and aesthetics are different.
Time? for me, as long as I can stand it. Ha ha
Most tobaccos do not come straight from farmer to the tin. Most farmers will allow a crop to go through three sweats before taking it to market, which could take three years or more. Then, some will get aged in piles, being rotated on a schedule. Then some are... well, you get the picture. You don't know.
All tobacco sold is ready to smoke right away. The producers will tell you that it is best right off the shelf. Some do get better with age, which is subjective, because I have tasted some that sucked after aging, while other people said that it was amazing. Tillbury is one. Many people like it aged, and to me it tastes like dirt. The longer aged the more dirt-like.
So, it's subjective, and a gamble. Check out GLP's blog for some better insights into aging - http://www.glpease.com/
But, Brian Levine did a personal test of Escudo and found two years sufficient enough to break open your terrible two-sies to smoke, while others say no less than ten years.
There is no magic number. There is no absolute. You may like it better after aging, you may not. Everyone's taste buds and aesthetics are different.
Time? for me, as long as I can stand it. Ha ha
I'll second Cosmic's suggestion to check out the link from Greg Pease. It's a fun and informative read.
A fun and easy way to test for yourself without having to wait years is to find something you like from Pipestud's consignment site (http://www.pipestud.com/301/index.html) and do a side by side comparison with a freshly purchased tin. We can all read about the effects of aging until our eyes fall out but first hand experience is the best teacher.
To confuse matters even more, forget 10 years. I've had several blends that show a very noticeable change in 6-9 months. Play around , take notes, and enjoy the experimentation.
A fun and easy way to test for yourself without having to wait years is to find something you like from Pipestud's consignment site (http://www.pipestud.com/301/index.html) and do a side by side comparison with a freshly purchased tin. We can all read about the effects of aging until our eyes fall out but first hand experience is the best teacher.
To confuse matters even more, forget 10 years. I've had several blends that show a very noticeable change in 6-9 months. Play around , take notes, and enjoy the experimentation.
I will regale you on the virtues of aging a certain category of tobacco. Virginia,Virginia/Perique and Virginia/Kentucky/Burley Flakes all get better with some kind of age. This is fact, it is indisputable so don't even try me.
Now in regards to Cosmic quoting Brian Levine, yes 2 years of age will smooth some of the peppery notes of Escudo, but it is in no way going to taste like the sublime blend it is after 10 years. I have been working on a 2008 tin and yes it is great, but it has not reached it's potential. Now taking into account that Brian I believes puts his tobacco through a coffee grinder( if I am mistaken then the rest of my comment is moot), his opinion about tobacco means next to nothing to me. Escudo is to be folded and stuffed or cube cut, even rubbing it out will take away flavors as it will burn hotter than it is supposed to.
Now in regards to Cosmic quoting Brian Levine, yes 2 years of age will smooth some of the peppery notes of Escudo, but it is in no way going to taste like the sublime blend it is after 10 years. I have been working on a 2008 tin and yes it is great, but it has not reached it's potential. Now taking into account that Brian I believes puts his tobacco through a coffee grinder( if I am mistaken then the rest of my comment is moot), his opinion about tobacco means next to nothing to me. Escudo is to be folded and stuffed or cube cut, even rubbing it out will take away flavors as it will burn hotter than it is supposed to.
Ok Harris, this from a guy who a year or so ago on another manly thread, wrapped some GH&co brown rope around his man-junk before smoking it? Ha ha, I like your swagger, but... ha ha!!
Depends on the type of tobaccos involved. Virginias and Burley age well. Latakia "softens" - fades - with age.
Definitely read the Pease article. It's good to get info from somebody who actually knows what he's talking about.
The "ten year" milestone is a myth. It's just an arbitrary length of time that's become fixed in the minds of some smokers. Why not say seven years, four months, eighteen days, and forty-seven seconds? It's just as legitimate. You may find a change with six months of aging.
Pease indicates that the most profound changes occur within the first two to five years. After that, further change is incremental. You don't have to wait forever, or spend a fortune on "vintage" tins, to have a wonderful smoke. Most tobaccos ARE ready to smoke when released. The tobaccos within have already been aged.
Over time, the various flavors imparted by the components and the casing will meld. New, a blend may taste of its components. A couple of decades later, the flavors those components will have cross pollinated, often resulting in a homogenized flavor.
The flavor of some blends may change considerably over time. For example, Escudo is more peppery when fresh, more fruity when aged a few years. I like it both ways. So I have a few tins that are fresh, and a few tins that have some years on them.
Aging does offer the benefit of removing the "rough edges" of some blends. But every blend will eventually fade or go completely strange. I've smoked vintage tins as old as 90 years of age. Those really old tins were crap. Once in awhile you get a nice surprise, but it's truly a crap shoot. I've had Capstan Blue from 1938 and 1941. The 1938 had completely failed, unless you like the taste of dirt and mushrooms. On the other hand, the 1941 tasted like Capstan, but smoother. It also was considerably miniaturized in flavor.
So enjoy what you have, put some away to age, but don't get too caught up in the myth that tobaccos only get better with time. It ain't true. Like everything else on this planet, including you, and certainly including me, eventually tobacco blends decline and wink out.
Definitely read the Pease article. It's good to get info from somebody who actually knows what he's talking about.
The "ten year" milestone is a myth. It's just an arbitrary length of time that's become fixed in the minds of some smokers. Why not say seven years, four months, eighteen days, and forty-seven seconds? It's just as legitimate. You may find a change with six months of aging.
Pease indicates that the most profound changes occur within the first two to five years. After that, further change is incremental. You don't have to wait forever, or spend a fortune on "vintage" tins, to have a wonderful smoke. Most tobaccos ARE ready to smoke when released. The tobaccos within have already been aged.
Over time, the various flavors imparted by the components and the casing will meld. New, a blend may taste of its components. A couple of decades later, the flavors those components will have cross pollinated, often resulting in a homogenized flavor.
The flavor of some blends may change considerably over time. For example, Escudo is more peppery when fresh, more fruity when aged a few years. I like it both ways. So I have a few tins that are fresh, and a few tins that have some years on them.
Aging does offer the benefit of removing the "rough edges" of some blends. But every blend will eventually fade or go completely strange. I've smoked vintage tins as old as 90 years of age. Those really old tins were crap. Once in awhile you get a nice surprise, but it's truly a crap shoot. I've had Capstan Blue from 1938 and 1941. The 1938 had completely failed, unless you like the taste of dirt and mushrooms. On the other hand, the 1941 tasted like Capstan, but smoother. It also was considerably miniaturized in flavor.
So enjoy what you have, put some away to age, but don't get too caught up in the myth that tobaccos only get better with time. It ain't true. Like everything else on this planet, including you, and certainly including me, eventually tobacco blends decline and wink out.
Jesse, the ten year mark in my experience is an age that has really allowed for the components to marry, and makes a good time to smoke them. Now some blends only need 7 years to get really good while others need 12 to be perfect. I have a couple of pounds of 2002 Solani 633 and it has changed dramatically. The Perique has gotten way more peppery and I mean a lot more. I recently opened a tin of 3 year 633 and I can already taste the pepper begin to dominate the flavors. Now if I want big pepper flavor I can smoke the 2002, but if I want less, the 3 year old.
My 2012 Hamborger Veermaster I recently opened was just ok, it is going to need at least another 7 years or so to be at it's best. I had 3 tins of 2001 Vermaster and opened one in 2012 and it was sublime. The tobacco had turned black and the taste was really fig and prune like. Now would that Veermaster been just as good with only 8 years, maybe so, but I like a ten year old just because in my experience it is great. I would hate to open an 8 year old tin and it be not as good.
I totally agree about really old tins that have 40 or more years. I am planning on smoking a lot of ten-twenty year old stuff and not let is get that much older. I do have a tin of 1997 Orlik Dark Strong Kentucky that I plan on smoking when the special occasion arises, as I don't want to wait much longer. I also have a few pounds of 2006 SG Best Brown Flake that I took one pound out to smoke now, and it is great. I will probably give the rest till it has 12-15 years on it.
Another recent experience was with a 2008 tin of Escudo. It was very good and creamy, but it was not jet black like a 2001 I opened back in 2012, and the flavors were definitely not as good. Now some may like a 7 year old tin, but for my tastes the extra years made a huge difference.
My 2012 Hamborger Veermaster I recently opened was just ok, it is going to need at least another 7 years or so to be at it's best. I had 3 tins of 2001 Vermaster and opened one in 2012 and it was sublime. The tobacco had turned black and the taste was really fig and prune like. Now would that Veermaster been just as good with only 8 years, maybe so, but I like a ten year old just because in my experience it is great. I would hate to open an 8 year old tin and it be not as good.
I totally agree about really old tins that have 40 or more years. I am planning on smoking a lot of ten-twenty year old stuff and not let is get that much older. I do have a tin of 1997 Orlik Dark Strong Kentucky that I plan on smoking when the special occasion arises, as I don't want to wait much longer. I also have a few pounds of 2006 SG Best Brown Flake that I took one pound out to smoke now, and it is great. I will probably give the rest till it has 12-15 years on it.
Another recent experience was with a 2008 tin of Escudo. It was very good and creamy, but it was not jet black like a 2001 I opened back in 2012, and the flavors were definitely not as good. Now some may like a 7 year old tin, but for my tastes the extra years made a huge difference.
Ha ha, if someone wanted to get information from an expert, they'd just send one an email. No, that's not what forums are for. They are for wild speculation, myths, and acts of bravado. Besides, if he was "so good," why wouldn't they let him keep writing articles for pipesmagazine? Nah, I think he is trying to see if he can do anything with wines now, since the tobacco thing didn't pan out. :nana:
Heh, youse guys...
I've got some 10 year old Escudo, and some 15 year old Escudo, and some with a few years on it and some new. And the flavor profile does change over time developing a richness and fruitiness not found in fresh Escudo. But I don't need 10 or 15 years on it to enjoy it. I can enjoy Escudo at different ages for different balances. 10 years may work well for a lot of blends, but so might 5, or 7, or whatever. There's no magic number guarantee for all blends. You try different tobaccos and see what works for you.
I'm contemplating popping the tin on some Haddo's that's about hit the 15 year mark. I've really enjoyed it at 8 years. But I might very well like it with only a couple years on it, or new. And I might not like it with 15 years on it. It depends on what taste you like. It's not one size fits all.
Last year we had a similar discussion regarding Stonehaven, where a member here contacted Robert Germain to complain about it not being aged enough, or something like that. He published Germain's response (without his permission BTW) which basically said that the blends were ready to be consumed upon release and to stop "fapping about" with their blends. In other words, aging is a choice, not a necessity.
I've got some 10 year old Escudo, and some 15 year old Escudo, and some with a few years on it and some new. And the flavor profile does change over time developing a richness and fruitiness not found in fresh Escudo. But I don't need 10 or 15 years on it to enjoy it. I can enjoy Escudo at different ages for different balances. 10 years may work well for a lot of blends, but so might 5, or 7, or whatever. There's no magic number guarantee for all blends. You try different tobaccos and see what works for you.
I'm contemplating popping the tin on some Haddo's that's about hit the 15 year mark. I've really enjoyed it at 8 years. But I might very well like it with only a couple years on it, or new. And I might not like it with 15 years on it. It depends on what taste you like. It's not one size fits all.
Last year we had a similar discussion regarding Stonehaven, where a member here contacted Robert Germain to complain about it not being aged enough, or something like that. He published Germain's response (without his permission BTW) which basically said that the blends were ready to be consumed upon release and to stop "fapping about" with their blends. In other words, aging is a choice, not a necessity.
Maybe he had better use for his time. Do you know that PM shut him out? Has the press been alerted?
The tobaccos I have are not excotic or straight tobaccos, just stuff I got from P&C. So I think what I'll do is try to smoke everything up as soon as possible and the only thing aging is me. Today I deceived an order of Ten Russians and G&H Coniston Cut Plug. I like all of these also like, Peter St. 52 English, C&D Captain Bob's, Jack Knife Plug, Chenet's Cake, Black House, and from P&C also Best of the Rest. No large quantities, just small batches. I find I'm drawn to Classic Coyote while working and I've mix a couple blends with the Coyote which suit me. I most likely wouldn't know an aged tobacco if I smoked it. The can of Penzance is for warm days ahead. Smoking a long time, but anything off the shelf or on sale, so I don't have the refined taste you gentlemen on have. Thank you for the answers.
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