To Pass, or Not to Pass.. A Nicotine Test

zeedoctorae · Feb 28, 2018

Good lads and lass',
So, my insurance company for work is telling me that if I can pass a nicotine test I can save a bunch of money a month on my insurance premiums.. anyone have any idea how long I will have to go without my pipe to pass a saliva test? Even the thought wracks me with sorrow, but alas, I need these savings.

Thanks for any help!
The Doctor
Edited by jvnshr: Title capitalization (please check Rule #9)

lazar · Feb 28, 2018

No idea, but I will say that this is yet more evidence that insurance companies are scum. The mind boggles that they would even think of this.

exbenedict · Feb 28, 2018

From everything I have heard, for the saliva test, to be safe a month should be sufficient. They say the average exposure rate is up to two weeks prior, however, if it were me, I would go a month, but I tend to lean more towards the paranoid side and would double the average to be safe. Take all of this with a grain of salt of course, as it is all second and third hand knowledge. Good Luck!

warren · Feb 28, 2018

They offer a customer savings and they are "scum?" No one is forcing him to quit smoking! They are simply offering a way to increase his income. Even with that he's looking at how to "game" the system and get moneys he is not entitled to. Situational ethics, gotta love it! You learn a lot about the members just reading the threads.

derekflint · Feb 28, 2018

Where and how do they give you this test ?

zeedoctorae · Feb 28, 2018

Yikes, Warren. That was pretty rude and uncalled for. I'm just a man who loves to smoke his pipe while trying to afford to live all at the same time. This is a brand new policy that actually increases our cost by 100 dollars a month unless we meet certain expectations. If we meet these expectations, we get to keep the rate we were at previously. The more we know...

warren · Feb 28, 2018

Again, situational ethics. I know, I know, everybody does it! They don't though. I tend to see things in black and white, no grey. If a hundred dollars a month is critical, quitting the pipe seems the correct answer. Or, seeking employment else where if you are unhappy with the situation.
I fail to see how my observation is rude or uncalled for. Harsh maybe, certainly not rude. You said you wished to "game" the system while seeking assistance in doing so, not I.

zeedoctorae · Feb 28, 2018

<p>Well, thank you for your opinion, Warren. If anyone else has some info that could be useful to me, I'm all ears.

warren · Feb 28, 2018

Again, situational ethics. I know, I know, everybody does it! They don't though. I tend to see things in black and white, no grey. If a hundred dollars a month is critical, quitting the pipe seems the correct answer. Or, seeking employment else where if you are unhappy with the situation.
I fail to see how my observation is rude or uncalled for. Harsh maybe, certainly not rude. You said you wished to "game" the system while seeking assistance in doing so, not I.
You're seeking info I'm not going to provide, I could though, and not wishing to highjack the thread I'll refrain from further posting on this thread.

filmshooter · Feb 28, 2018

Maybe I am a cynic... Personally I would never submit to any test and demand they prove whatever point they are making. Further I would demand from my employer the benefits which I agreed to upon accepting employment.
First off, and this may be gloom and doom but I think not, a saliva test captures genetic personally identifiable information. This is an insurance company. Their profit depends on how much they will have to pay out before you die. Cold, but true. Who is going to ensure they do not use your genetic info against you? Remember, they are incentivized to deny you for any reason possible. They are not there for you, they exist to make a profit, such as any company. However, amazon doesn't charge more for their goods based on a test they give you.
You may not have a choice in this and that is unfortunate. I would be looking at my employer though, who has chosen this insurance carrier and by extension approves of their policies.
Plus where does such policy end? What if you like bacon? That can be bad for your heart. How long before the insurance company asks how much bacon you eat, or if you own guns, or use power tools, or play recreational sports. Any of these activities can be dangerous or cause injury.

elguapo · Feb 28, 2018

My insurance company tests your blood, and the test they use will detect it going back a month. From what I understand they test for a different chemical found in tobacco instead of nicotine. Fortunately, they test during the winter when I don't smoke my pipe.

And yes, from my dealings with insurance companies, they are a special kind of scum.

hawky454 · Feb 28, 2018

@ Warren :crazy:

We learn a lot about the members here indeed. Nothing is black and white man, shit, I wish it were that simple. I see this as all kinds of wrong and it certainly is anything but black and white. They’re finding a way to gouge pipe smokers even more than they are already gouging the non-smokers and it sounds like a whole load of BS to me. Unfortunately you are screwed either way so I say just don’t give them your saliva. It sounds like this will be the new norm though and it won’t be as simple as quitting your job (like that’s simple! Ridiculous!!) just cause you don’t like the insurance. I feel for ya man and I’m sorry to hear you’re having to loose money because you happen to partake in a hobby that we all love. It’s just wrong on every level.

hawky454 · Feb 28, 2018

Btw, Filmshooter has raised some excellent points.

olkofri · Feb 28, 2018

I wholeheartedly agree with Filmshooter. And for that matter, a blood test can let them have your DNA as well. I also agree with elguapo: given that nicotine has a half-life of only days, they must be testing for something else.
Man, am I glad I don't have insurance!

badbeard · Feb 28, 2018

Most saliva tests for smokers actually test for the chemical "cotinine". The half-life is about 20 hours, but can be detected by most tests for up to one week with average daily consumption. If you are all day smoking 3P, Royal Yacht, or maybe some rope, you are going to need to give it more time.
That said, I tend to agree with Warren. Let's say I go into a store and get a veteran's discount with a fake military ID.. I am getting a discount for pretending to be something I am not. In comparison to purposely deceiving an insurance company, what shade of wrongness grey is that? Furthermore, knowingly providing false information to an insurance company is considered fraud in most states, so asking for assistance in doing so on an open forum might not be the best idea.

pipesticks · Feb 28, 2018

For crying out loud, the man is trying to save a buck. If he signs something to the effect he has never smoked in his life, weell then I could see an ethical dilemna there. But if all he has to do is pass a baccy test, then it's fair game and a smart man uses his wits. Here's the info you need, Zee.
https://thelawdictionary.org/article/for-the-purposes-of-life-insurance-testing-how-long-is-nicotine-detectable-in-the-system/

pipesticks · Feb 28, 2018

Keep in mind that if you do lie and they can prove you lied, they will not cover you when you need them most. And then you're screwed.

snagstangl · Feb 28, 2018

Or they could say your hurricane insurance doesn't cover your home damaged in a hurricane because it was flooding that caused the damage, as the hurricane was on top of your house.

Skapie · Feb 28, 2018

Is Nicotine itself carginogenic, or otherwise harmful? I understood the tars and other compounds to be the problem, and also the reason why pipe is less harmful than cigarettes.
If the above is true then the test’s validity can be challenged, as it would be discriminatory without a justifiable risk-argument. Vapers wouldn’t qualify for the discount while not increasing the risk.

lazar · Feb 28, 2018

zeedoctorae - glad you're getting some sound info here.
warren - situational ethics are what keeps the world from being a sterile dictatorship, and from everyone "just following orders". The insurance company has no ethics, they are simply trying to gouge by applying a blanket policy across the board, without regard to situation. A once-a-day pipe smoker is the equivalent of a 40-pack a day smoker in their eyes, and they are punished for it.

To Pass, or Not to Pass.. A Nicotine Test

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