Can anyone tell me how this is legal? This is really getting pathetic.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/11/us/11smoking.html?_r=1
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Pipes Magazine » Tobacco Legislation
This is really sad.
(29 posts)-
Posted 1 year ago #
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I could swear that is called DISCRIMINATION. Turning away people for one reason or another. I mean, businesses aren't allowed to not hire women, old people, gay people, ugly people, black/white/Asian/Mexican people.
*Sigh* I hate the way society is going.
The best gift to give a woman is what she told you she wanted when she thought you weren't listening.Posted 1 year ago # -
In Texas it is technically legal, I've been refused jobs for it, I've been docked pay for smoking in uniform before too.
Its also illegal to unearth sealed criminal records, and to refuse to hire or rent property based on such information. Yet I've been expelled from a university, from a damned -hotel-, cannot get an apartment, and if a job checks my background I simply will not get hired -- all for what effectively amounts to something unbelievable stupid I did as a minor (I will say that it was not theft, nor assault or damage of a person or their property of any kind, I only harmed myself, and nobody pressed charges. . .so the state did. The records were sealed, but apparently not very damned well. I paid my penance, and instead of being deemed rehabilitated I've been deigned a criminal unfit for society -- nice)
Sincerely,
YoruPosted 1 year ago # -
Just one more reason to be glad I'm retired. As for the federal estimate that smokers cost more than $3K/yr to businesses it is just one more unsubtantiated number thrown out there.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Boys this is nothing new. Twenty-five years ago one of the conditions of my job offer was to be a non-smoker,.....and remain that way for one year. Twenty-five years ago.
Get used to it,.....we're a dying breed.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Doesn't mean we have to like it, or even accept it.
Business tycoons were a dying breed when the Industrial Revolution swept the U.S. so forcefully it helped to bring an early end to Reconstruction in 1877 -- and suddenly poor men who rose to riches (a breed LONG since nearly extinguished) to fill in the ranks of those tycoons, even supersede them.
Today 'old money' that actually has control over any major players on the world economic stage are likewise a dying breed, but through a bit of in-breeding and the sheer force of their will (money actually but the point is valid) they have kept their way of life very much alive, and probably always will as long as the world market exists. And any God-fearing American can 'earn' 60k per year interest per million. . . heh heh.
What we need to do then, I suppose, is establish some kind of "sanctuary" for smokers, a new kind of business establishment would be ideal, something like a "smoke-easy" in the form of a nation-wide chain of private clubs that are also shops and perhaps bars.
My knowledge of private club law even as applicable only to my state is a bit vague, but I'm fairly certain it could be pulled off.
Hey Warren Buffet has always liked investing in tobacco due to the MASSIVE profit margin (even with these insane taxes) -- anyone got his number? I can't see why he'd turn us down.
Posted 1 year ago # -
No offense my friend but yes you have to accept it, sorry.
I don't like it either, but what are you going to do? I mean really,...."What are you going to do?" Or better yet,...."What can you get done?" Nothing.Cigarette smokers are considered animals that need to be "exterminated" by the vast majority of the world...and unfortunately we as pipe smokers are lumped in with those who smoke cigarettes, and all the wailing and gnashing of teeth is NOT going to change that.
I think from now on I'm going to do my best not to open threads that have anything to do with ordinances, bans or laws. They only ruin my day, and I don't need the aggravation.
Wish me luck.
Posted 1 year ago # -
One needs to stand with the cigarette smoker. Much like freedom of speech, we need to defend the speech we find personaly offensive just as vigorously as the speech we agree with.....
Posted 1 year ago # -
One needs to stand with the cigarette smoker. Much like freedom of speech, we need to defend the speech we find personaly offensive just as vigorously as the speech we agree with.....
Are cigarettes merely "offensive speech", or are they hazardous enough to us to be considered "dangerous speech"?
We happy few understand that "smoking" is too broad an umbrella to be practical, but the world around us does not. What I've said all along is that we need some division between the smoking that is harmful, and the smoking that has considerably less harm.
It's a tough call. Do we band together with the cigarettes and the cigars and the hookah and the chaw and fight for all tobacco, even if if maintains Phillip Morris' ability to poison their product? Or do we segregate, and in the separation, draw more attention to the hazards posed by the tobacco additives and not the tobacco itself?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Ditto papipeguy and Tommy.
I find myself sitting idly on the line dividing past and future,
as if I could kill time without injuring eternity. -- ThoreauPosted 1 year ago # -
Anonymous
Unregistered
Posts: 256offlineLogin to Send PM
I am truly thankful I have enough tobacco to last the rest of my life. I am thankful I have thousands of miles of open country north
east south and west where I can get lost from the stare of self righteous eyes. I will now have no more to say on this issue.
Posted 1 year ago # -
If smokers cost businesses $3000 a year, I wonder what the shop lifters (thieves) cost them?
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane.Posted 1 year ago # -
I saw it first thing yesterday morning. I didn't post anything about it since I immediately assigned it to Carter to write about.
Posted 1 year ago # -
"It's a tough call. Do we band together with the cigarettes and the cigars and the hookah and the chaw and fight for all tobacco, even if if maintains Phillip Morris' ability to poison their product? Or do we segregate, and in the separation, draw more attention to the hazards posed by the tobacco additives and not the tobacco itself?"
IMO pipe and premium cigars smokers should stick together. Any association with cigarettes is a losing battle. Keep the issue very targeted. Make the fight about pleasure vs. addiction.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Just bear in mind that when they come for us...and they will...expect no backing from the cigarette smokers.
Banning anything is nonsense.Posted 1 year ago # -
You've got at least one cigarette smoker on yer side -- even though many of you seem to harbour the same hatred for my loved (even moreso than pipes) hobby non-smokers do. And while I get it, especially from the perspective of the non-smoker crusade on cigarettes effects you as well -- I say that should engender a brotherhood, a realization of an injustice that non-smokers who aren't anti's can't understand. Rather than the kind of resentment it seems to more commonly bring.
Flanative I think you're spot on with the biggest issue I see with the whole ordeal "Banning anything is nonsense."
Posted 1 year ago # -
To yoru, who said: :... a "smoke-easy" in the form of a nation-wide chain of private clubs that are also shops and perhaps bars."
There is a clause in the public smoking ban ordinance that just went into effect in San Angelo, Texas (close to you?) which says 'venues established to get around this ordinance are prohibited'. So your good idea is nipped in the bud, around here, at least.
As for the DISCRIMINATION tag, the antis will just say that one has no choice in their sex, race, handicap, etc. but smoking is a choice, so that can't be "discrimination".
Posted 1 year ago # -
Well its still effective in bars here in Denton (its in Texas at least, not sure how close Dallas and San An are), in fact every bar in town is a private club.
Besides, you put Warren Buffet('s money) behind virtually anything, it gets done. Especially when he's fighting things he can so easily get a Republican Supreme Court to overturn (and these laws fall into that category), he and people like him have done it hundreds, if not thousands of times.
Still don't think it would in reality, but its a nice thought.
Posted 1 year ago # -
yoru,
Well, I don't know about stand-alone bars, but I was in Denton last year for the North Texas graduation. The big motel we stayed at was 100% non-smoking, including their bar (which I didn't like... nor the college kid bartender who SHOOK my Manhattan
) I did ask to see the manager and politely informed him that ACCOMMODATION for smokers as well as non-smokers would be a good idea.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Daveinlax wrote "IMO pipe and premium cigars smokers should stick together. Any association with cigarettes is a losing battle. Keep the issue very targeted. Make the fight about pleasure vs. addiction. "
Unfortunately, association with tobacco of any type is a losing battle , its the beastie du jour.
Also, where would you draw the line with "premium" cigars and pipe tobacco?
Im sure a Graycliff Gran Cru would be acceptable,a Partagas Black Label? Sure, why not? What about a Swisher Sweet? or a White Owl? Not "premium enough?
I personally keep 4 or 5 lbs of Prince Albert on hand at all times, certainly not "premium" by any stretch. Guess I would be out of luck. Of course Dunhill blends would be acceptable....Altadis blends? Hmmm..borderline there.
Maybe we could apply the same principle to alcohol! I mean, beer is so low brow, Wine or a good scotch, well, thats just fine............................i think Ill shut up now and go hide my PA.
Posted 1 year ago # -
The trouble with "divorcing" ourselves from cigarette smokers is that THEY are the ones that make it possible for upscale cigars and pipe tobacco to exist! How many tobacco growers (and companies) would stay in business by catering only to the "carriage trade"? Not many.
Posted 1 year ago # -
He shook your manhattan? how horrid!
Posted 1 year ago # -
The article that was posted makes me angry. This is becoming a trend in society that makes no sense and is a discriminatory practice. If you were to change the "tobacco user" tag and replace it with anything else, it would not happen based off of the discrimination laws.
Another thing that is very dis-heartening is that smokers still want to segregate themselves from each other. This makes me very angry as well. People are running around looking for self preservation and going about it the cowardly way by just trying to protect their own selves instead of trying to protect the rights of everyone. If this was the case in a lot of things in history, freedom would never had existed. We have to stand up for the rights of EVERYONE, not just ourselves. Tobacco users are still falling for the 'Divide and Conquer' techniques that are being used.
Another thing is that without cigarettes, pipe tobacco would disappear faster than you can blink.
Here are some articles that I think everyone should read:
Divided We Fall: The Self Segregation of Smokers
This one was written by G.L. Pease:
This article I wrote about when the news of HR4439 came out. The beginning part talks about the bill, but the part that you should read is after the red text that explains the bill.
Bill Introduced to Further Raise Federal Taxes on Pipe Tobacco
"When the Government Fears the People, There is Liberty;
When the People Fear the Government, There is Tyranny." - Thomas JeffersonPosted 1 year ago # -
"Maybe we could apply the same principle to alcohol! I mean, beer is so low brow, Wine or a good scotch, well, thats just fine............................"
FYI the world of beer and spirits is and has been highly segmented for long time. Beer has nothing to do with premium spirits, wine is off the charts with segments even jug brands want nothing to do with fortified ghetto juice. It's the way of the world folks. Like I said before keep it small and target issues you have a chance of winning. Lumping yourself with a very unpopular product is a losing hand. I have nothing against any smokers but I've been through a local and state ban fights and by pointing out the difference to politicians worked. With this workplace issue I would be pointing out little things like we're not the ones getting lost on the way back from the printer every hour but a man/woman who might enjoy a pipe after work or a cigar on the golf course. What we need is a "Wine is Food" type talking point for pipes and cigars.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Bob, thanks so much for your post and the informative links, and the perspective they bring to this issue.
Some pipe smokers may want to run away from cigarette smokers, but that is ill-advised.
Smoke is smoke, whether it comes from a pipe, cigar or cigarette.
And tobacco is tobacco, whether its packed into a white paper tube or into a Savinelli.
Every measure that restricts the cigarette smoker, has the same effect on the pipe smoker.
The anti-smoking forces, now a broad and empowered worldwide coalition, don't want people to use tobacco in any form.
The place I usually buy my tobacco, only 10 minutes down the road, is an independent tobacco and booze store. They stock an endless variety of domestic and imported beer and spirits and all kinds of cigarettes. And they have a walk-in humidor for cigar smokers.
They also stock a wide selection of "drug-store" blends and offer 10 to 12 Lane bulk blends by the ounce. All at reasonable prices.
But their profit center is cigs first and then beer, then cigars. Pipe tobacco and pipe accesories are just a blip on the register tape.
If their cig sales take a dive, the joint would close and I would have to find a new place to buy my pipe tobacco.
Thus, I have a vested interest in opposing restrictions on cig smoking and sales.
Frankly, if some pipe smokers consider themselves above or somehow different from cigarette smokers they are misguided.
The anti-tobacco movement doesn't care how much you paid for your churchwarden or how delightfully aromatic your new $6.50 per ounce blend is. Or that it has an intriguing name.
To them you are just another tobacco user.
And they are right.
To them you are just another smoker.
And they are right.
Do not underestimate the energy or determination of the anti-tobacco movement.
Public smoking -- buildings, parks, city sidewalks, outdoor venues, etc. -- might be totally extinct within 5 years, at least in North America.
I don't envision that smoking in your own yard or home will be illegal, only because it will be impossible to enforce, much like the Prohibition Era regulations.
But as tobacco sales decline, and taxes and restrictions increase, the cost of smoking a pipe might become prohibitive to middle class Americans. As usual, the affluent are immune.
Those who have stocked their cellars will be able to boast and say "I told you so."
The rest of us would have to decide whether we want to pay 15 bucks for an ounce of pipe tobacco.
Now that would be sad.Posted 1 year ago # -
Cornguy you said it better than I could. We need to support one another regardless of our own preferences.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Guys why do we think pipe or cigar smoking is really any different? The biggest difference that makes us not as likely to get much of the diseases as cigarette smokers is we dont inhale if you inhale your pipe or cigar you are not much better of than cigarette smokers. This is one of the reasons were losing this battle half the time we sound just like the antis agreeing how horrid cigarette smoking is and then saying but my tobacco is different that funny as hell we sound like real asses when we talk like this.
Posted 1 year ago # -
It seems as though we have an invisable wall being built, just like to real one R.Regan worked to bring down. I say we light up for our rights, the freedom of choice. They will have to lock me up, because I love
on my pipes and a good cigar as well!
Posted 1 year ago # -
So many of our Freedoms are being eliminated .......it is past time to wake up regardless of
party affiliation and look around and work to save our basic freedoms. The nannies will soon have
all of our freedoms stripped and there will be nothing we can do about it.Posted 1 year ago #
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