This Ageing Malarky....

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aimlesswanderer

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jun 25, 2016
211
2
... maybe I ought to find out what all the fuss is about....
I don't cellar tobaccos, I just grab a pouch or tin of whatever takes my fancy, and smoke it till I run out or get bored, and just buy others on an "as and when" basis.
I've currently got three sealed tins which I was going to crack open and smoke one at a time, but I figured why not try jarring some up and see how they differ with time. The jars I have were bought for snuff, and probably won't hold a full tin of pipe tobacco. This means I can fill a jar, and still have some left over to sample now.
The three tins I have are all SG: Perfection, Skiff Mixture, and Palace Gate. I haven't tried any of these before. My understanding is that aro's don't age per se, and that latakias mellow over time. Is this right?
Questions:
Is it worth jarring up all three, or should any just be smoked straight away?
How long does each normally need to be tucked away before the benefits of ageing will be noticed?
Will any of them suffer from being stored too long, and if so, which and how long?
I understand this isn't an exact science, I'm just trying to get a feel for what the general understanding is.
Thanks in advance.

 

hawky454

Lifer
Feb 11, 2016
5,338
10,220
Austin, TX
I would just keep them in the tin if you really want to age them. Jarring them will just disturb their slumber. Skiff Mixture tastes it's best with about one year of age on it. I've never had Palace Gate but if it's an aromatic, I wouldn't really bother aging it, as you won't see much improvement. I don't like to age English blends too long as I think they suffer with too much age (5 to 10 year) but giving them 1-3 years really lets the individual components marry and the smoke does improve somewhat in my own opinion. I still think aging tobacco is way over hyped though and ya should just smoke em if ya got em. Pipe tobacco is meant to be smoked now... well, except for the C&D Cellar series but that to me is more of a gimmick than anything.

 

jefff

Lifer
May 28, 2015
1,915
6
Chicago
Wether they are better or not is subject to debate but they WILL change in as little as 6 months.

 

ashdigger

Lifer
Jul 30, 2016
11,379
70,057
60
Vegas Baby!!!
Not malarkey real. But, it depends on the blend, how and where you store the tobacco to be aged. The variables are off the charts. I've had 10 year old tobacco that was just an almost ethereal experience and I've had 10 year old tobacco that was just garbage. Same blend, same age and tin appeared to be the same condition. I age tobacco by default now because of my cellar's size and I buy aged tobacco because I don't mind experimenting. I have a tin of Old Virginia purchased that's very good for an approximately 25 year old Virginia. I've also had a 10 year old tin of Haddo's Delight that i thought tasted like absolute garbage, but I love Haddos with about a year on it. I've had Reiner Long Golden that was 10 years old and it burned my mouth like it was a toxic landfill waste product, but fresh or with a little aging it tastes so citrus like I can't get enough of it.
Hope that helps.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,632
44,856
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Aging will change the flavor of the tobacco. That change may be perceived as beneficial by some and harmful by others.
As a general rule, Virginias and Oriental varietals do best with aging and can continue to develop for decades. Over time, the Virginias become sweeter and the flavors become more pronounced. Orientals see an increase in flavor as well.
Latakias fade over time, but many smokers like the flavor of the faded latakia, as the mellower profile allows the other components in a blend to reveal themselves. Latakia can start to lose its punch in the first 10-15 years. After 30 years it's often so faded that you wouldn't know it was there. Yet some of my best smoking experiences have come from English blends in the 30-40 year old range because of the way the Latakia and the orientals developed over the decades, and the flavor balance that resulted. So there is the occasional exception that happens on a tin by tin basis. And some of the worst experiences because a particular tin didn't age well.
Burley doesn't change a great deal, but it's the longevity champ as it's the one clear note that I've detected in a century old tin of sludge that I tried a couple of years back.
According to GL Pease, whose FAQ is pretty informative, the most pronounced affects of aging happen within the first 3 to 5 years, but continue for decades.
Just because something has been aged, doesn't mean that it's better, just that the flavors will be different. The other issues are the conditions under which the blend ages.
As has been pointed out by Ashdigger, the same blend from the same year could be delightful from one tin, and disgusting from another. And Haddo's Delight is a good example as it's one of my favorites and I've smoked it aged 15 years, at a variety of ages, and fresh. Some of the 2001 tins I've smoked were truly amazing in how the edge of the blend had been replaced by a rich smoothness. But others were hugely disappointing.
So the condition of the tin, the conditions under which it was stored, could be a factor, which makes buying vintage tins always something of a gamble. Like anything else in the world, tobaccos peak and then fade, and my experience with tins in the 40 years old and up range has been overwhelming disappointing.
So why cellar? Well, aging of some tobaccos is beneficial and I don't plan to keep them for eons, but rather to smoke them. Also, by putting stuff away I've been able to have a nice stash of what I enjoy without dealing with tax increases, price increases, shortages, production bans, eventual internet sales bans, or maniacal buying by frenzied hoarders. I just go to a bin and get what I want. Aging is the frosting on the cake.

 

ophiuchus

Lifer
Mar 25, 2016
1,557
2,052
No kidding, that about covers it. :clap:
I do enjoy how the flavors of certain blends change over time ... it's part of the fun ... I'm really more just glad that pipe tobacco is something you can store a good supply of for a long, long time.

 

aimlesswanderer

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jun 25, 2016
211
2
Many thanks for the insight. So it seems that "ageing" can be a bit of a lottery subject to individual tastes, and is predominantly a side effect (and possibly a secondary justification) to cellaring.
I can fully appreciate why some people cellar, particularly in countries where bulk is significantly cheaper (not applicable here in the UK), but it seems trying to age tobaccos without actively building a doomsday stash isn't necessarily worth the effort, particularly if some of the already expensive tobacco can suffer as a result. I also don't have the surplus funds to start stockpiling stuff the way that some of you are accustomed to.
I think I'll save myself the torment, and resort back to trying to just keep a tin or two ahead of consumption. It seems the safer, and probably (for me) the most sensible approach.
Thanks again for taking the time to give such full replies.

 

mackeson

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 29, 2016
758
2
I also "accidentally" age. I don't have the size of cellar we see from some members, but I'll be really into a baccy for a while and buy a couple extra tins, then move onto something else, :squirrel:, and then sometimes a year or four later open the tin I'd forgotten about. I've never had a bad one, but sometimes meh, and sometimes amazing. The best old ones I've had were a 9 year old tin of Orlik Dark Strong Kentucky, and a 2 1/2 year old tin of McClelland NO. 27.

 

aimlesswanderer

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jun 25, 2016
211
2
What the heck, I've decided to jar them up anyway. That way I can dip between all three as I want without worrying about them drying too much or the tins rusting.
The jars actually held less than I thought. I've loosely packed two jars or each blend, and still got enough in the tin for a couple of bowls. With around 20g of Coniston Cut plug already in my pouch, these four tobaccos will probably last me well into the summer, so even if they don't "develop", at least they'll keep in better condition than they would if I just kept dipping into the tins..... hopefully.

 

toobfreak

Lifer
Dec 19, 2016
1,365
7
The jars actually held less than I thought.
It's been my experience that loose packing with more air will encourage greater aging of the product while very tight packing with all the air forced out does better with things like aros which tend not to age as well, keeping them more like new.

 
It's been my experience that loose packing with more air will encourage greater aging of the product while very tight packing with all the air forced out does better with things like aros which tend not to age as well, keeping them more like new.

I'm a loose packer :::cough cough::: I mean, I pack mine in 2 oz quantities, in the smallest jars. But, many on here report that tighter packs :::snickers::: results in more plume. Although, after smoking plenty of plumed tobaccos, it is not sugar, IMO, and it does not make the smoke sweeter. Greg Pease had posted that it is where the minerals are starting to leach out of the tobacco.

In smoking the plumed parts, and the unplumed parts... I do not think it is anything spectacular; however, it may just be further evidence that something amazing has happened to the whole jar, box, or tin. But, the plume itself is not sugary, nor especially tasty.

 

toobfreak

Lifer
Dec 19, 2016
1,365
7
I thought the plume was an oil, but maybe it is mineral. In either case, I tend to age large quantities in quart jars. I like the results more than smaller jars. It is like the tobacco has more "chemistry" going on with more tobacco around it. Once I feel it is sufficiently aged and I'm ready to break into it, I take the large jars and break them down to small jars for smoking. Then the rest of the tobacco can go back to aging (all flake, plug and ropes are always packed very tight so little air), while I smoke the one open jar.
As to the plume, I agree, but it is a good visual indicator that the aging process has occurred.

 

mawnansmiff

Lifer
Oct 14, 2015
7,385
7,295
Sunny Cornwall, UK.
"I can fully appreciate why some people cellar, particularly in countries where bulk is significantly cheaper (not applicable here in the UK),"
Aimless, perhaps you ought have a chat with member Mcitinner. He has a huge list of blends for sale, aimed specifically at us Brits and other European smokers. I have made a considerable (for me anyway) order recently and as soon as his supplier get their shipping issues sorted out will be winging its way to Cornwall.
I then intend on ordering some bulk FVF that with p+p costs, I will still be making a huge saving. Send him a PM, he will be sure to help you out :puffy:
Regards,
Jay.

 

aimlesswanderer

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jun 25, 2016
211
2
It's been my experience that loose packing with more air will encourage greater aging of the product while very tight packing with all the air forced out does better with things like aros which tend not to age as well, keeping them more like new.
@toobfreak That might work in my favour then, as I only packed fairly loosely to ensure I didn't have difficulties getting it back out again. The jars are 70ml (around 2.5 US fl oz I think), so really quite dinky, and I've got just over 20g in each at a guess.
Aimless, perhaps you ought have a chat with member Mcitinner. He has a huge list of blends for sale, aimed specifically at us Brits and other European smokers. I have made a considerable (for me anyway) order recently and as soon as his supplier get their shipping issues sorted out will be winging its way to Cornwall.
@mawnansmiff Thanks for the heads up. Unfortunately I don't have the funds available to take advantage of these opportunities at the moment as I'm on long term sick. Even when they eventually figure out the diagnosis (we've identified lots of things that it isn't, but no positive identification yet), I may still be several months (at least) in treatment and recovery before I can get back in gainful circumstances. Just waiting for appointments for next round of MRIs.

 

mawnansmiff

Lifer
Oct 14, 2015
7,385
7,295
Sunny Cornwall, UK.
Aimless, I can understand your position. I have been 'long term sick' since the 1990's with a collapsing spine and arthritis. I have been living on disabled pension for years but my pleasures these days are very few and my expenditure on them even less thereby leaving me to spend on baccy.
When you do go for your MRI be sure to take a (loud) CD with you due to the noise it makes. If I recall I used to take Hawkwind and Pink Floyd discs with me.
Good luck :puffy:
Regards,
Jay.

 

toobfreak

Lifer
Dec 19, 2016
1,365
7
I wouldn't pack too loose aimless, believe me, I've packed stuff in there like a rock and it comes out, even if you have to stick something in there to loosen the top up. Use reasonable jars. 4 ounce is nice. If you pack it too loose, the air capacity can draw moisture out of the tobacco easier and unless overly moist, with repeated openings, it will dry out faster than with a tight pack.
I try to store my tobacco so it will age well, but I don't alter the dryness until I'm ready to smoke it, FWTW.

 
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