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The Samuel Gawith Era

(234 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by cigrmaster
  • Latest reply from fishingandpipes
  1. cigrmaster

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    A discussion on an other thread got me thinking about this subject. The subject being Samuel Gawith tobacco before their merger with Gawith Hoggarth and after. The before is obvious, SG only put their Lakeland essence into blends that were designed for them. Since they merged and are now reportably using GH equipment is the Lakeland essence tainting blends that are not supposed to have it?

    On another thread( Preparing SG Flakes) hawky454 mentioned tasting the Lakeland essence in one of his boxes of SG Full Virginia Flake he received after the merger and sometimes in his Cabbies Mixture. I would be pissed if that had happened to me. I don't want to taste Lakeland where it does not belong.

    So the big questions are when did GH & SG merge and do we need to now look at SG blends as before GH and after GH. Are blends from before going to be worth more in the open market because there is no chance of their being a Lakeland taint associated with them?

    Harris
    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. alan73

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    I have bought all my SG tobacco post merger, and have never tasted Lakeland essence in my Best Brown or FVF.

    I would notice a Lakeland essence, because the flavor is god awful to me (taint is the right word). I tried some Ennerdale one time, ghosted the pipe for at least 20 bowls. Maybe hawky is tasting a ghost.

    I would guess, that they would be smart enough and experienced enough to know that Lakeland essences will TAINT the flavor or less adulterated tobacco.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. saltedplug

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    I don't regard Lakeland as an essence or in any way characterizable as there 100 or 100s of essences, and vestiges being faint at the start and variously constructed cannot be of any one type so as to be characterized by one word, Lakeland. Which? Which Lakeland? But if I did taste something so variable on a blend where I felt it didn't belong, I wouldn't get all that excited such that I would find pre-merger SG tobacco more valuable than post. I would try to find it sophisticated and thus more valuable, though I admit that before I reordered I would extract a promise that the tobacco could be returned were such essence upon it.

    Lakeland scenting would appear to be what some love to hate and about which they also love to post.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. chasingembers

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    I would imagine that like the food industry, they would clean and sanitize the equipment between batches. I love lakelands BTW.

    Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.
    -Edward Teach
    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. mcitinner1

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    @ Plug ... I don't think you get it, on how guys who don't like any Lakeland essence feel. Your last sentence is uncalled for.

    Stan
    Godfrey Daniels!!
    The Plenipotent Key to Cope's Correct Card of the Peerless Pilgrimage to Saint Nicotine of the Holy Herb:
    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. saltedplug

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    McT, you're right. But maybe in the context of having read the same opinions over and over and over again on forums for many years why I say this might make sense. Bashing Lakelands makes as much sense as bashing P&C and Petersons and does no good. To me its whining. I do admit to whining, but I try to not to post about it. I think its time to give this one a rest but I know there are many who feel otherwise.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. cigrmaster

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    salt, talking about tobacco and their flavors is what we do here. The Lakeland essence is a flavor that most either love or hate, not a lot of middle ground with that. I happen to smoke St Bruno Flake which does have a small amount of Lakeland essence and in that blend I expect it to be there. If I were to buy a tin of SG Best Brown flake today and found it had a bit of Lakeland, I would be upset as it is not supposed to be in that blend.

    I think a discussion of possible Lakeland essence showing up in blends that is not supposed to have it, is not whining but is simply a discussion, nothing more nothing less.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. saltedplug

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    My point was not that the topic should not be discussed, but that it has been discussed so long that it bears no more discussion, and that thus it amounts to bashing. This forum has had threads bashing P&C, sometimes multiple threads at the same time, for years, as have the others forums I've visited. I maintain that Lakelands, P&C and Peterson bashing are among the most enduring topics on the forums. Criticism is helpful when directed against a particular practice. As I understand it, P&C had problems with packing recently. So, worthy of criticism. But this is not what is posted about the triumvirate from hell, above.

    If you want to state how you feel, I would vote for a "I Hate Lakelands" thread. When you feel the urge you could post to it, only writing, "I hate Lakelands." Similarly we could have threads for Peterson and P&C hatred. Since everything has been said, and said and said, why keep saying it?

    These topics are the subject of eternal hatred, which I feel brings down the tone of the board. But wait. . .no one cares what I think! Why am I here? Why am I posting to a thread of such unimportance for the third time, whining about others' whining? (Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. cigrmaster

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    salt, show me a thread where the topic is Lakeland essence possibly tainting blends that are not supposed to have it.

    Also who are you to tell anyone what topic they should or should not post about? Because you are tired about the Lakeland topic we should never discuss it again? What about new smokers? Are they supposed to just know all about that topic because in your opinion it has been discussed enough?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. saltedplug

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    mea culpa. If I feel the need to wade into such an eternal thread again, that I feel is to to no purpose, I will substantiate my argument, having found supporting evidence.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. brian64

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    I ordered a new Peterson from P&C one time, along with a couple of Lakeland blends (just because I wanted to see what all the stink was about). Well, needless to say, the box was torn and the contents were rolling around loose inside with almost no packing protection.

    The Lakelands had busted open and caused the mailman to lose consciousness and knock my mailbox over.

    The Pete was already ghosted from just being in the same box with that God-awful stuff even before the first smoke...but didn’t matter because the thing was drilled so badly that you couldn’t smoke it anyway.

    I got as far as touching one match to that mixture from hell and immediately sealed up the rest of it and shipped it off to Captain Embers to do whatever it is he does with it.

    EDIT: disclaimer: the above is pure fiction...strictly for entertainment purposes.

    “Bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.” – George Carlin
    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. cigrmaster

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    brian, too funny.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. cosmicfolklore

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    Bah ha ha ha!!! Coffee just shot out my nose!!!

    Michael
    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. chasingembers

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    immediately sealed up the rest of it and shipped it off to Captain Embers to do whatever it is he does with it.

    EDIT: disclaimer: the above is pure fiction...strictly for entertainment purposes.

    Damnit Brian, I got excited for a second.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. cigrmaster

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    So does anyone know if SG flakes or other blends are being cut or worked on GH machines? Also when exactly did the merger occur? Can we nail down a date so we can create a before GH era for SG products?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. cortezattic

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    I bought a tin of Cabbies blend (02/10/17), after the merger, and there was definitely a floral scent to it. Although I avoid Lakelands like the plague, I must admit that the tainted Cabbies was still pretty good. It is even more lightly scented than Peterson's Hyde Park.

    ps. Salted, take a time out.

    I find myself sitting idly on the line dividing past and future,
    as if I could kill time without injuring eternity. -- Thoreau
    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. cosmicfolklore

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    This was discussed quite a bit, but I think you were on break with the forum at the time. Just going by my poor memory, I think it was resolved that there might be contamination from storage, but that is based on my memory, so... FWIW

    I don't remember the exact year it was moved. But, when someone says Lakeland, they can be referring to one or more of hundreds of scents. Some I love, and some, not so much, especially that rose geranium oil that was also used in those pink soaps. But, a little licorice, a little tonquin bean, doesn't bother me so much. But, for someone who is repulsed by "any" scents... I'm not sure that one can be 100% absolutely certain that there won't be any contamination.

    I'm not sure how devastating the contamination is. There is a forum phenomena that a small percentage can look like it's much more than it is here. One guy posts, and then it starts to look further compounded by just discussion, and then maybe one or two verify the problem, and then it looks like much more a big deal than it really is. I feel totally confident that if I picked up a tin of FVF at my local B&M, that it is going to be unadulterated FVF. I have personally bought 12 boxes of FVF in last last year, and jarred them. I didn't notice any scents in the blocks of flakes. FWIW. Not to disrespect those who have had issues. I just cannot verify with what I have experienced. Maybe I am lucky, or maybe they just got very unlucky.

    I feel confident that if I did have an issue, and if I used one of the forum sponsors, I feel confident that they would help resolve my issue. And, I am saying that as a "no longer a moderator or associated with PipesMagazine," regular guy posting on the forum just like you. YMMV

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. saltedplug

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    I used to put my daughter in timeout and now I done got put in a timeout on a pipe forum. The injustice of it all. . .

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. alan73

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    Merger occurred late 2015.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. cigrmaster

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    cos, you need to smoke a bowl out of each of those 12 boxes and report back. The smell alone is not enough, we need to know the taste. When you have finished your assignment, please report back here.

    Alan, late 2015 is way too general. We need a month, a day and the time please. Now get back out there and bring me home the info.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. lazar

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    I think the thread subject is interesting and totally legit - but I also see what saltedplug is getting at. It's tedious to read Lakeland bashing or M79 bashing or whatever, because taste is so subjective. It's like those reviewers on TR that bash Latakia blends because they hate Latakia - completely useless. Same with "gooper" bashing. What's the point?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. chasingembers

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    But the point of the thread was about finding lakeland flavoring in blends that weren't supposed to have it. Not bashing them.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. lazar

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    But the point of the thread was about finding lakeland flavoring in blends that weren't supposed to have it. Not bashing them.

    Yeah I get it. But bashing occurs pretty much every time Lakelands come up. I don't really care, just saying that saltedplug had a point.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. hawky454

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    Maybe hawky is tasting a ghost.

    I'd like to think you'd give me a little more credit than that! To be fair, I have only ever tasted it on Full Virginia Flake from that one box in particular. I still have a little left from that batch and yes it is still very much tainted but ever so slightly and it detracts from what Full Virginia Flake is all about.

    I love a lot of the Lakeland tobaccos but I do not want to taste that stuff where it does not belong. If I pick up on it in Best Brown #2 I'm alright with that because I've come to expect that but I certainly get annoyed when I find that it's in my Cabbies Mixture. CM is the only SG blend that I have noticed it in more than one batch. I love that stuff but when it has hints of the Lakeland "sauce" it's a total turn off.

    Overall I've been very pleased with Samuel Gawith and they remain one of my all time favorite houses. I can also attest that you can buy there stuff with no risk as Smoking Pipes refunded my money on the box of FVF. So I wouldn't put too much worry in it as their product is still excellent!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. cigrmaster

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    lazar,

    I don't really care, just saying that saltedplug had a point.

    No he really did not have a point. This thread was not started to bash Lakelands as you can clearly read in the first post.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. ashdigger

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    Maybe this is why I don't post much currently. I truly understand Harris's post and remember the other post about this issue.

    I'm also curious why Salted Plug took offense and then the always mercurial Lazar agreed with him.

    Btw, I've not noticed Lakeland in my FVF or Cabbies, but I did notice peanut butter in my chocolate.

    Ubi Ignis Est?
    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. hawky454

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    I ordered a new Peterson from P&C one time, along with a couple of Lakeland blends (just because I wanted to see what all the stink was about). Well, needless to say, the box was torn and the contents were rolling around loose inside with almost no packing protection.

    The Lakelands had busted open and caused the mailman to lose consciousness and knock my mailbox over.

    The Pete was already ghosted from just being in the same box with that God-awful stuff even before the first smoke...but didn’t matter because the thing was drilled so badly that you couldn’t smoke it anyway.

    I got as far as touching one match to that mixture from hell and immediately sealed up the rest of it and shipped it off to Captain Embers to do whatever it is he does with it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. hawky454

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    cos, you need to smoke a bowl out of each of those 12 boxes and report back. The smell alone is not enough, we need to know the taste. When you have finished your assignment, please report back here.

    Harris has actually got a point here. I couldn't and still can't detect the scent when I smell the flakes but boy oh boy is it there when I light up. As to what the "Lakeland Scent" is? You'll know it when ya taste it.

    In all seriousness I've bought a lot of boxes of FVF since that tainted box (not as many as Cosmic) and I have smoked from many different batches and I've not ever come across a tainted batch of it since. I don't know what the deal is with Cabbies Mixture though? Maybe they can't make up their minds about whether or not it should contain a scent. lol.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. lazar

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    I've been called a Martian before, but never Mercurial.

    My only point was, regardless of the thread topic, one mentions Lakelands and people will jump in to bash them (as began in post #2 above). At least we haven't heard the one about Grandma's underwear yet! No big deal - just seeing two sides.....

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. woodsroad

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    Except that I don't think that you are seeing Harris's side. And just because there is more than one side, doesn't mean that the others are correct, or even worth acknowledging.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  31. ashdigger

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Posted 1 year ago #
  32. brightleaf

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    From this new article printed on 2 Oct. 2015 http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/13799418.Snuff_firms_in_historic_merger/

    a merger between historic tobacconists and snuff makers Samuel Gawith – based at Canal Head since 1881- and Gawith Hoggarth in March.
    ...
    Both companies are continuing production at a factory on the Lake District Business Park, at Mint Bridge.

    POSSIBLY, contentment is not only the chief element of life, but also one of the very foundations of society. If this be so, then as Tobacco is the enemy of malice, friend of virtue, and a direct cause for content, its use should be encouraged. -J.W. Cundall 1901
    Posted 1 year ago #
  33. woodsroad

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    This is the GH factory:

    Posted 1 year ago #
  34. cigrmaster

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    Let's just agree to disagree on the Lakeland bashing and get back to the original topic. I don't want to get the thread closed because we are arguing, and I appreciate those who have come to my defense.

    I really would like to find out if the equipment now being used on SG products is causing any transfer of Lakeland flavors(good or bad). I am going to smoke a bowl from a tin of Cabbies Mixture dated 2/9/16 first thing tomorrow. I have had it open since then and I just checked it and it is still pretty moist. I will have to let it dry some before smoking. I will report back with my results.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  35. yaddy306

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    salt, show me a thread where the topic is Lakeland essence possibly tainting blends that are not supposed to have it.

    http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/aftermath-of-merging-between-sg-amp-g-amp-h-changes

    Posted 1 year ago #
  36. alan73

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    Yaddy: nice find

    Posted 1 year ago #
  37. woodsroad

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    Well, yes. There was that.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  38. cosmicfolklore

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    Cool pictures of the facilities. I'd always imagined it to look like...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  39. virginialover

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    I had a tin of "contaminated" Cabbies Mixture, it was my first and sad to say last one. If quality control becomes difficult for SG then no more SG for me. Lakeland scent is weird for me and requires of me to be in a weird state of mind to enjoy it. But to get Lakeland perfumes/flavors when not wanting or expecting it well...talk about a ruined orgasm.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  40. cosmicfolklore

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    Hey, maybe if everyone stops buying it, it'll be easier to find.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  41. metalheadycigarguy

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    I haven't noticed a difference between Golden Glow, Skiff Mixture and Perfection; which are the only three blends I've had pre and post merger.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  42. lazar

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    Except that I don't think that you are seeing Harris's side.

    Which is why I started my post, "I think the thread subject is interesting and totally legit"?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  43. cosmicfolklore

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    Do you have to be so damned agreeable, Lazar. Come on, pick a side and and stick to it. Ha ha!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  44. woodsroad

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    ---sigh---

    Posted 1 year ago #
  45. lazar

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    Do you have to be so damned agreeable, Lazar. Come on, pick a side and and stick to it. Ha ha! [:puffy:]

    The irony is, I really was trying to be an agreeable nice guy!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  46. ashdigger

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    Posted 1 year ago #
  47. cosmicfolklore

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    There's that one guy out there thinking, "This Ennerdale doesn't taste as much like ass as it usually does. I bet it's rubbing off on some Samuel Gawith stuff."

    Posted 1 year ago #
  48. cigrmaster

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    Talk about having no memory. I have no recollection about discussing this issue a year ago. Early onset dementia is a bitch.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  49. cosmicfolklore

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    Tell me about it. I just went ahead and had the kids chip me, so I can just wonder around in the backyard and woods and enjoy being lost, and they can just track me with an APP.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  50. woodsroad

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    At least you are consistent, Harris.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  51. mcitinner1

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    Glad it's not just me.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  52. cosmicfolklore

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    It’s time to line up.... medicine...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  53. hawky454

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    This is still a relevant thread because there has been more and more people tasting the Lakeland pixie dust on Samuel Gawith blends, in that old thread I was the only one who had the experience so if anything it’s good to hear that I am not alone, it’s always good to hear that one is not crazy.... well, you know what I mean.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  54. cortezattic

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    Is there any reason to believe that the company knows about the problem?
    Altho it's doubtful, if the powers-that-be smoke scented tobacco, they may not have noticed.
    After all, they apparently lacked the presence of mind to clean their equipment between product runs.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  55. condorlover1

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    I like Lakeland and Geranium flavorings so there!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  56. cosmicfolklore

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    I saw you spit thAt pill out condorlover, and if you can’t throw that water fountain through the window, I’ll tell Nurse Ratchet!!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  57. cortezattic

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    I once met a girl who I thought was Geranium. Turns out she was actually Austrian.
    She thinks I'm a Moron, but I'm really a Presbyterian.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  58. mothernaturewilleatusallforbreakfast

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    I have not detected any changes in FVF since the merger, but I think we will see some of what Harris mentions, in that, I could see a sentence in the description of an aged tin of FVF reading something like... tin is hand dated prior to merger, guaranteeing no Lakeland essence.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    pipeman7

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    I agree certain specific people are constantly complaining about the scenting in Lakeland blends and usually about the "scenting" in the unscented blends. While most GH blends may scented to a certain extent, it's certainly not true of SG. There's no scenting in their unscented blends. And as someone who only smokes Lakelands I have bought many SG blends produced post merger and found no unwarranted scenting in blends where they don't belong. I have noticed a big change in the flavor of 1792 though. It's far less sweet and much more gingerbready now.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    pipeman7

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    And I think it's worth noting that this entire thread isn't based on the op's personal experience but an old account of hawky' who claims there was scenting in his fvf but personally im skeptical. I think FVF always has had somewhat a soapy flavor too it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  61. cosmicfolklore

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    I've been smoking a B&M bulk VaPer and gotten a hint of... what's that?.. maple? Or, been smoking some LTF and though, did a flake of latakia get in this? Maybe from the scales, or the scoop, or just floating around in the air at the B&M? Is that a wiff of... tonquin bean? When I was smoking cigarettes, I'd get little wiff of cherry or orange.

    I believe Hawky. He has been very active on here and been a positive influence on the forums. But, I am just not going to lose any sleep over it. I just chalk it up to one of those subtle mysteries of the hobby. Hell, without the controversy, none of us would give a possum dick about where S&G was located. It feeds information.

    Heck, the company that needs a scandal is Orlik. Is that a country? A Place? Does it mean something? What language do Orlikians speak?

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    pipeman7

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    Orlik was founded by louis Orlik on Bond Street, London. Their popular catchphrase was Shrewd judges smoke Orlik my balls

    Posted 1 year ago #
  63. hawky454

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    I agree! It’s definitely not worth losing sleep over.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    pipeman7

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    Right but I just find it silly all these accusations of scenting post merger that really only come from what...one report? it's not like SG needs false bad advertisement. As much as I want to keep the stock to myself I also want to see the company flourish and not close down as I would not be able to continue on smoking a pipe.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  65. hawky454

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    Did you even bother to read the thread? There are at least two other people on here that have tasted it as well. Hell, Brian even mentioned it on the radio show, so it’s not just one persons account. I’m not trying to scare anyone away or give them “false advertisement” I’m just having a discussion with my homies and I think it’s worth talking about. Like I said earlier in this thread, Samuel Gawith is one of my favorite houses. You are being a little dramatic, man.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    pipeman7

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    OK so the two other smokers who experienced it, i wonder what was their prior experience with SG? I get the impressions some of these accounts come from people unfamiliar with SG

    Posted 1 year ago #
  67. virginialover

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    pipeman7:

    "OK so the two other smokers who experienced it, i wonder what was their prior experience with SG? I get the impressions some of these accounts come from people unfamiliar with SG "

    Well I have a decent experience with both SG and GH and Cabbies Mixture had a soapy flavor. It was so much that I gave it away, there. I like both SG and GH but only when the product that's advertised is the one I'm smoking. I also gave away 4 oz. of Gawith, Hoggarth & Co. - Brown Flake U/S because it had the soapy flavor while advertised as unscented.

    Also, I have some reviews about SG and GH on the Tobacco Reviews web site. Does that make me an expert on those tobaccos...no, but it surely puts your question/affirmation to rest.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  68. cosmicfolklore

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    Next time anyone is giving away SG or GH flakes, please keep in mind that I'll pay shipping.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  69. virginialover

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    Well if they taste soapy while not supposed to, I'll keep it in mind. I'm in Canada though.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  70. cosmicfolklore

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    Ahhh Canada, I’ll send you some teddy bears.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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