The Quality of Sandblasting at Retail Shops

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cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,280
66
Sarasota Florida
Last night I went to a bunch of different on line retailers looking to see if there were any artisan pipes I might want to buy. What really struck me was all of the lousy sandblasted pipes these retailers were trying to sell for top dollar. It is interesting that when I look at the artisans own website, these poor blasts do not show up. I personally think it sucks that these artisans seem to be dumping their not so good work on these retailers and it makes me wonder why these retailers are putting up with it. When I look to buy a sandblasted pipe, I want to see an awesome blast that has great definition all around the pipe. I don't want to see half assed blasts especially for the prices they are charging.
I think retailers need to tell these artisans to stop unloading their crap on them and force them to eat those pipes that are below their best work. I cannot believe some of the shoddy blasts I see for 400.00 plus. Hell if I was an artisan, I would be embarrassed to put my name on those pipes. Now I do understand what goes into making a pipe as a good friend of mine is a pipe maker. I understand how sometimes the briar just doesn't cooperate and sometimes you just cannot get a good blast on a particular piece of briar. If my friend ever tried selling blasts like I saw last night, I would tell him to either keep the pipe for himself or give it to a friend, or even sell it at a discount to friends so that his name will not be associated with a poorly blasted pipe. I would strongly advise him to never sell it to a place like SP where the entire world sees it.
So am I being too critical, am I not taking into account the amount of time and energy an artisan has put into a poorly blasted pipe and asking too much that they not try and dump it on the public? When I spend 400.00 plus for a blasted pipe, I want a damn fine blast and I don't think I am asking too much. What really burns my ass is when I see a pipe selling for 600.00 plus and it looks like an amateur has blasted the damn thing.

 

raevans

Starting to Get Obsessed
Apr 20, 2013
273
17
Well, from working on the retail side, I can tell you that the retailer is not obligated to buy any pipe from an Artisan. They have the chance to look over the pipes and then pick which ones they want. They then add a mark-up in order to make a profit. So it could be that the retailer got the pipe for $175.00 - $250.00 which may be the accurate price for the pipe, (weak blast and all), but then they need to increase the price in order to make a profit.

The other side is...Does the pipe sell? If the retailer can sell the pipe for that price, then they have no reason to complain. If they can't, then they tell the Artisan that they are not interested and go about their business.

I would not be too hard on the Artisans, most of them are still relatively new and are just trying to put food on the table, if someone comes along and offers to buy their product, then they will probably sell it instead of letting the electric company shut of the power to their shop. (Even if the product is not quite up to the standard that they would like it to be)

I would say that you would probably be better off going directly to the Artisan's website. That is where they are going to highlight their best work. (Not a knock on retailers, I know what they have to go through and it's not an easy task)

And..NO..I don't think that you are being too critical, as a consumer, you should expect the best for the money that you spend.

 
May 3, 2010
6,427
1,476
Las Vegas, NV
A lot of new carvers are trying to make pipe carving their sole income and they really don't have the experience to do it. A lot of them aren't going through an apprenticeship under a master carver. It's turning out a lot of shoddy pipes and these pipes are demanding and getting higher prices than they should because of the guy's popularity on social media.
I'm sure another part of the problem is some carvers are trying to reach the demand and are turning out pipes faster than usual which is leading to less attention to detail.

 

daimyo

Lifer
May 15, 2014
1,460
4
Even the best pipe makers are going to have blocks that do not blast out amazingly and yes, I think it's silly to expect them to throw them away. An interesting blast does nothing for a pipes smoking qualities. But I agree a unspectacular blast is not worth 600 let alone 400. One reason I love buying from Talbert is that he grades his pipes very honestly and describes in detail where things are great and what issues have held the pipe back in grading. That said, if people pay 2k for a smooth from a master carver, I don't suspect that maker would desire to sell pipes for $150 even if the grain isn't the best.
I doubt the retailers are seen by many artisans as a dumping ground, they are the ones doing free advertising for them and helping them cement their names.

 

voorhees

Lifer
May 30, 2012
3,834
939
Gonadistan
Harris, I have begun the search for a commission Lovat. I want a blasted pipe with a smooth rim with proportions I like. I see a lot of poor blasts as well.

 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,280
66
Sarasota Florida
daimyo, I totally agree with you about Trevor and his grading system, it is much fairer to the consumer. I bought one of his Ligne Bretagne pipes that had an awesome blast and paid 315.00 for it which is at the high end for that line. I thought it was more than fair because of the quality of the blast. I have no problem paying for a great blast, I just don't feel it is right for people to charge the same price for an inferior blast as they charge for a great one. It is like paying top dollar for a smooth pipe with lousy grain. That is another subject we could discuss as I see a lot of that as well. I agree they should not thrown out a pipe with an inferior blast, but either sell it a big discount or sell it to friends. I saw pipes from 600-800 with lousy blasts.
Jason, I hear you buddy. I have had 8 commissions done with Rad Davis and everytime he came through with a great blast. I ordered a pipe from a younger pipe maker and the first one he did had a lousy blast so he made another and it was lousy as well. I felt badly so I ended up buying both pipes and fortunately for me I was able to sell them for a small loss. I did learn a valuable lesson from it so it was no big deal. Now that Rad may be out of pipe making for a while I have also been thinking about who I would want to do a commission with. I honestly was looking to buy a pipe when I was searching last night but there was not one pipe that fit my criteria for a pipe that had a great blast. I must have looked at over 60 pipes and was really disappointed at what I was seeing. I also was checking out a bunch of the artisan sites but no one had much on their own sites as the Chicago show is next week and everyone is taking their best stuff with them.

 
Jan 4, 2015
1,858
11
Massachusetts
In reading this thread what struck me is two things. First is that there appears to be a market for blasts of inferior quality. If people didn't want them, the retailers wouldn't buy them so at least some of this issue rests with the buying public. Producing a great blast is a very labor intensive effort. If I can pass off lessor quality and still get my price I might be inclined to do just that especially if the wolf is at the door. The second issue would seem to be the general lack of a grading system. As was pointed out, charging top dollar for a pipe with unspectacular grain, a poorly done blast or unimaginative rustication simply isn't good business. But as was also pointed out a lessor pipe graded fairly by the maker is appreciated. Demand is probably at the base of the problem. There's a high demand for these kinds of pipes and often by those who might not know a good blast from a bad one. It's certainly not unreasonable to want quality work for top dollar paid but too it may be that the price for the superlative blast has risen. Comments about commission work suggest that maybe there might be a shortage of real talent in producing great blasts. Likely as not there are probably several underlying reasons. The sad news is that unless the artist is internally driven, current market conditions don't seem to provide much of an incentive so what's available isn't likely to change.

 
Dec 24, 2012
7,195
456
I like a nice deep blast as well, and I do search for them, but not everyone shares that view. Lighter blasts are much more prevalent and sought after in Europe, for example. Rather than making general statements, perhaps you should put your money where your mouth is and link to some blasts that you consider to be inferior and then folks can chime in and comment on whether they agree or disagree,

 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,280
66
Sarasota Florida
peck, you would just love me to start an all out war wouldn't you? lol In my cigars days I would be outting people left and right but this is the kinder gentler me and I do not want to hurt someones business. I will post a picture but no name. This pipe retails for 625.00, and if you like that kind of blast then good for you, I think it is a weak blast myself.


 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,280
66
Sarasota Florida
Here is another pipe that goes for 600.00. I could do this all day but I have better things to do, like scratch my nuts. Again, if someone loves this type of blast then I think it is great, and it lets the pipe maker have a different market.


 

raevans

Starting to Get Obsessed
Apr 20, 2013
273
17
I'm really not sure how deep he could go with the blast, the pipe has fairly thin walls to begin with. This pipe will sell at 625.00, the Artisan is in demand and only puts out a limited number of pipes each year. Someone will take one look at this pipe and will have to have it. (and compared to some of the prices on other blast work this particular artisan has, they will probably think it's a great deal)

Personally, I don't think that any blast is worth 600.00 plus dollars. A blast means that the pipe is flawed or it wouldn't be a blast. I have found that when this kind of money is being charged, you are usually paying for a name and not so much for the pipe.

 
Dec 24, 2012
7,195
456
Dare I toss the cat among the pigeons and suggest this as an example of a fairly anemic blast:
qQGaNAc.jpg


 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,280
66
Sarasota Florida
raevans, I will respectfully disagree that the artisan is in demand as he has more unsold pipes on a number of different websites than any other artisan out there. I have seen lots of his pipes sitting unsold for over a year and some are sitting for 2 years.

I am totally with you about any blast costing 600.00 plus, I would never pay that personally but that is me.
When I see a blast going for 1550.00, I just shake my head. Here is a pipe from Former, that is nice but 1550.00, no way. I have owned 6 of his pipes in the past and yes they are good smokers, but not better than my Rad's or other American artisan pipes for a whole lot less.

http://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/former/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=160453

 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,280
66
Sarasota Florida
peck, the lighting on that pipe is not the best, the blast is nicer in person, but still not as deep as I like. Also it was a pipe of the year with a retailer, and I only bought it because of who was selling it. I normally would have passed as the blast is not as defined as I normally like. The price was also comenserate with the less than perfect blast.

 

raevans

Starting to Get Obsessed
Apr 20, 2013
273
17
Cigrmaster, I didn't realize that he had dropped off to that extent, or it could be that folks have taken the same stance as you and will not pay that kind of green for what they feel is a mediocre product. Either way it could be that this may end up being a wake-up call for both retailers and Artisans so that further down the road we may see a more realistic prices. (I know, wishful thinking)

I had to go back on that Former. After three separate times looking at it, I just don't see anything that justifies the price. I would have to go back to the whole paying for a name and not the pipe on that one.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,454
I have a Ser Jacopo that has what I think of as highly acceptable sandblasting, good and deep with a defined pattern. I have a pipe or two with more subtle blasts, which I don't think of as anemic, but others might. Then, surprisingly, I have one or two low level pipes that have some pretty respectable blast, specifically a little Parker cherrywood where you can pretty much read the blast with your eyes closed. As with prices, the buyers set the standards for quality. I think blasts have become popular without too much reference to criteria.

 

chalbach72

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 27, 2014
158
2
28
United States
halbachphoto.com
I think it is reasonable to say that if a blast is executed beautifully no matter how deep, should we deem it inferior or of lower quality?
I personally do not enjoy deep sandblasts on most pipes, but to each his own. I find it rather ridiculous to shell out upwards of 5-900 on a pipe, let alone a cool G. But again, that's my opinion. I say respect a man's work. If you deem it unfit, simply don't buy it. But who are we to tell someone that his own work is, more or less, crap?
I don't intend to start any wars or arguments, but I think it's just incredibly important to remember that if you're going to judge a pipe as art (which I'm assuming is part of the reasoning behind high prices of pipes discussed here) each artist has their own style. One may not like the deep sandblasts, one might. I think we need to all take a step back and remember that everybody has preferences and opinions, but that doesn't make one more valid than the other. You might not like one blast style, but others may find it downright gorgeous. But just relax and don't take out such harsh hits against artisans and their particular blasts :D
That's just my 2 cents, take it as you will

 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,280
66
Sarasota Florida
chalbach72, I respect your opinion and yes people may like a blast with no definition or ring grain, but it is well known that a really nice ring grain blast is much more in demand than a blast with no definition. Some like Trevor Talbert charge higher prices for a fantastic ring grain blast and I have no problem at all with his pricing as I don't mind paying extra for something that I consider to be beautiful to look at. Some may not like the really deep ring blast of a JT Cooke, but if you have ever noticed, he never sells a pipe that does not have an awesome blast. Yes he gets 900.00 plus for them(out of my price threshold) but he sells everyone of his pipes within 4 minutes of it being listed. I am sure he has to eat plenty of briar to insure he only sells his best work, but maybe that is why he is in such demand. His name goes on the pipe and he really protects that by never selling a pipe with a blast he feels is weak.
I feel that an artisan should put his best work out there and if a pipe has a blast that is weak and undefined, it reflects on his reputation. I have been buying pipes for 15 years now and the really great ring grain blasts sell so much faster than a weaker blast. Yes I will say weaker because I know exactly what goes in to making a pipe. People of course have their own likes and dislikes, but in general, people love a great ring grain blast and I have seen this for the last 15 years.
In reference to my taking hard hits at artisans, I am entitled to my opinion and I feel that there are way too many WEAK blasts being sold to the public especially by new artisans who have priced their pipes as high as guys who have been making pipes for 10 plus years. I feel it is wrong for some guy to be carving pipes for a couple of years, producing weak blasted pipes and charging 400.00 plus, just as I feel it is wrong for a guy who has been carving 15 plus years to be charging 600.00 plus for a WEAK blast. I pay good money for my pipes, and it honestly pisses me off to see some new guy with little experience selling a pipe for 400.00 plus when a guy like Rad Davis who has paid his dues and creates really nice pipes and only charges 400.00. I spent hours looking to buy a pipe the other night and it sucked seeing all the crappy blasts for the money being charged. You may feel I don't have the right to criticize these artisans but I feel I have every right when it comes to how I spend my money. Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that, as I certainly respect your opinion and the right to voice it.

 

chalbach72

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 27, 2014
158
2
28
United States
halbachphoto.com
Of course, I understand where you're coming from as well. While I respect the art and would never condemn the blast patterns defined as "weak", I certainly understand your position on the pricing. I do agree that a shallower, less-defined blast should most definitely not be deemed as expensive if the quality does not match the price tag.

 
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