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Square tins and factory vacuum seal

(34 posts)
  1. paulie66scandinavian

    Paul

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    It occured me to ask if these 1,75oz square tobacco tins has an air tight seal on them for what I know the bigger square ones are not whreres those round ones are air vacuum tight.

    Paul The Scandinavian'
    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    These aren't a perfect seal. Round tins are better, but all of them slowly leak. The leakage is slow enough that they can be good for years, but they're not a perfect seal and eventually the contents will dry out. Put a few tins in a sealed bin, leave them for a few weeks, pop the lid off the bin and take a whiff. You'll be smelling tobacco. That's one reason that I keep all of my Latakia blends separated from the Virginias. You can run a metallic tape seal around the join to improve the seal, or bag them in heat sealed food storage bags. Or you can just jar the stuff.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

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    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. mawnansmiff

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    One thing I would dearly love to hear explained is how they vacuum seal the tins in the first place.

    It's one of those things like a radial engine...I just can't get my head around how it works

    Regards,

    Jay.

    ...take up thy stethoscope and walk...
    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. jpmcwjr

    jpmcwjr

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    I believe one way to create a small vacuum is to close the tin/jar under heat. When it cools, the air and moisture inside will compact, creating a bit of a vacuum. But for a factory run, I suspect it's pretty cool equipment that creates a vacuum around the whole tin before attaching a lid.

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. davet

    davet

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    It's one of those things like a radial engine...I just can't get my head around how it works

    I agree, think about it too much and my eye starts twitching

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. calabashed

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    See Russ' post about half way down this thread:
    http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/war-horse-tin-seal

    Seems they just get closed at ambient pressure then stuck in a vacuum chamber.

    Posted 2 years ago #
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    aldecaker

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    When you guys say "radial engine", are you talking about the old-school aero engine, or that goofy-ass perversion of a rotary engine that Mazda fiddled around with for a while?

    A man who serves his country is a patriot. A man who serves his government is an employee. The two are not always the same thing.
    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. paulie66scandinavian

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    SableBrush52:Thank you for the added info, always learing somethig new here.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. mawnansmiff

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    "When you guys say "radial engine", are you talking about the old-school aero engine,"

    Aldecaker, I was indeed referring to the aero engine, the one where the cylinders actually rotate.

    Seems hellish too complicated for me to figure out quite how the damned thing works

    Regards,

    Jay.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. toobfreak

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    I've not investigated it, but by the sound of it, it just sounds like they rotate the cylinder around a fixed eccentric. Same result, just a different way of doing it.

    As to the tins, I can't say I have ever had a problem with a square tin--- until after I opened it. Once open, they don't seem like they want to seal worth a damn. Probably why I try to avoid them.

    To Master Po: Is it not being able to see that makes you tire of life?
    Master Po: No! It is being able to hear!
    Posted 2 years ago #
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    aldecaker

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    The one where the bank of cylinders whirls around a fixed crankshaft is a rotary (such as in the WWI Sopwith Camel). A radial aircraft engine (such as in the B-17), by contrast, has a fixed bank(s) of cylinders, with the crankshaft rotating. A simple way to visualize it is this- one has the prop bolted to the crankcase. The other has the prop bolted to the crankshaft.

    They can be a bit goofy to wrap your mind around at first (how do they actuate the valves? Where do they even keep the camshaft? What the shit?), but they are a fascinating powerplant. While not exactly intuitively obvious to the casual observer, they do represent the pinnacle of aviation engineering, IMO. Jets are for kids; radials are where it's at.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. grouchydog

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    ...
    Aldecaker, I was indeed referring to the aero engine, the one where the cylinders actually rotate.

    Seems hellish too complicated for me to figure out quite how the damned thing works [:roll:]

    The cylinders didn't rotate - there was/is a single-pin crankshaft on which rotates an articulated, radial connecting-rod assembly attached to all the pistons; basically a "master rod" with a split big end, and other rods attached inside its split big end. Hard to describe without images...

    Posted 2 years ago #
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    aldecaker

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    The cylinders of a rotary aero engine rotate.
    The cylinders of a radial aero engine do not rotate.

    Posted 2 years ago #
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    aldecaker

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    I smoke a fair amount of OGS and MacBitey's Navy Flake, and I've never had any sealing issues with either of those in the square tin.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. paulie66scandinavian

    Paul

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    just have made an experiment with square tins,this is how I went: I did seal the tins around the joins using a plastic electric tape and ten put these two tins in a cettle with boiling water for bout 50 seconds, and tell you what:obviously these tins got a flatter in their appearence asumably creating this way some more inside vacuum.But seriously this somewhat boyish playing around and was not necessarily perform in any sense, but who knows this measure migth have some advantages too in it,

    Posted 2 years ago #
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    jitterbugdude

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    You should do the same thing to a few rounds tins and see if you get the same effect.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  17. beezer

    beezer

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    Threads like this is what provoked me to seal my tins up in mylar bags for long term storage. It gave me some peace of mind even if perhaps a bit overkill.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  18. samcoffeeman

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    But how does the air speed of a rotary or radial aero engine compare to an unladen swallow?

    Posted 2 years ago #
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    aldecaker

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    No one knows. The charts are calibrated for Half a Bee, not Unladen Swallow. Some older engines, though, have conversions for Furlongs per Fortnight (fpf).

    Posted 2 years ago #
  20. paulie66scandinavian

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    Jitterbugdude: I already did with one, the result was something alike but tidy bit in lesser degree than with square tin ones, now no more experiments on this, otherwise I consider myself being something not adult but oddball''whos has too much speartime

    Posted 2 years ago #
  21. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    So how does boiled Balkan Sobranie taste? Do you serve it with cabbage?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  22. paulie66scandinavian

    Paul

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    SableBrush52, heaven sake, you horriefied me,final result remains to be seen, into what containts'got turned,but still I do remain optimistic,will report back to you if something unexpected did happen with contents,(OGS_S&G Golden Glow.Solani 633Flakes, )experiment took approximately 30-50 sec with beforehand well taped seals-then tins were immediately cooled down +toweled dry.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  23. monty55

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    Sounds like your having fun!

    Nice experiment, I'm curious, were the tins unopened new tins you put in boiling water, or previously opened?

    Can't wait to hear how the contents fair. Are these for cellaring, or just till you open the tin for another smoke?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  24. shaintiques

    shaintiques

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    I opened a rectangular tin of Solani Aged Burley flake that was over 10 years old and the seal was still good. Nice pop when I opened it and moisture level inside.

    I know what I need, smoke, I can't recall the last time I tasted it....Gandalf in the mines of Moria.

    "we shall have to share pipes, as good friends must at a pinch'....'I keep a treasure or two near my skin, as precious as rings to me. Here's one: my old wooden pipe. And here's another an unused one...He held up a small pipe with a wide flattened bowl, and handed it to Gimli. 'Does that settle the score between us', said Merry. 'Most noble hobbit, it leaves me deep in your debt."
    Posted 2 years ago #
  25. weezell

    weezell

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    So how does boiled Balkan Sobranie taste? Do you serve it with cabbage?
    And shit does not stink till you step in it...

    "the weez"...
    Posted 2 years ago #
  26. paulie66scandinavian

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    Dear Mister Monty 55:
    Well this rather idiotic experiment performed by this crazy scientist'was done on a few Unopened square tins in order to try out and see if the tins inside vacuum would increase,and apparently this experiment did have some success,judging by the general appearence of these few tins which were involved in this nonecence experiment,At first glance they got flatter,something like the lid went closer to containts yet like the seal was improved. Despite of this doubtful success,I wouldn't recommend using this method too actively,possibility is that even 30 sec.'hot boiling seance'has negative affect on the tobacco taste+ moisture content,hardly but it might.Remains to be seen now,yet many classic flakes are steam pressed at the factory,and Now I will leave these tins alone sitting on my cabinet for some extented period and then pop open for sampling.

    Posted 2 years ago #
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    oldgeezersmoker

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    Back in the 1980's and 1990's when I bought, sold and cellared for personal use very large quantities of tobacco, exclusively from when the blends were made in the UK, the ones in rectangular or square tins were much more likely to pop. Your mileage may have varied.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  28. paulie66scandinavian

    Paul

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    Oldgeezersmoker:This was a news, Thanks for bringing it up,I assume those restancular(soap case like) ones used like it was with Capstan /Erinmore back then had better sealed in comparition to nowadays square ones

    Posted 2 years ago #
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    oldgeezersmoker

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    I do not have any experience with contemporary square tins, only ones from the Uk in those days. Capstan was one you had to check carefully from time to time, Bengal Slices and the old Sobranie made Krumble Kake would pop if you looked at them harshly, and I never would purchase Erinmore even if it was sealed in lead - can't stand it. Others experience might differ, but in making trades, etc. of any decent quantities of that style tin back then, you could almost bet that something would pop in shipping.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  30. paulie66scandinavian

    Paul

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    Oldgeezer: Yep I share your feeling with Erinmore,pretty awfull,

    Posted 2 years ago #
  31. craiginthecorn

    craiginthecorn

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    Talk about a rabbit trail! Rotary versus radial aircraft engines in a discussion about vacuum sealing. Fascinating nonetheless. I learned something new this morning.

    Links to videos which made the difference obvious.

    Radial
    Rotary

    Regarding aerobic and anaerobic fermentation, a fellow named Toren Smith conducted a little experiment comparing four methods of storage over a period of three years. He reported that any vacuum packing greatly slowed the aging process and thus much preferred simple jarring. I think I might conduct a similar experiment myself with some fresh Escudo.

    Here's a link to Toren Smith's article on Greg Pease's website.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  32. paulie66scandinavian

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    Now,I do love that Erinmore but only in flake version,yet I'm not planning on any further experiments with any tins whatsoever

    Posted 7 months ago #
  33. cigrmaster

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    Last week I opened a 2001 tin of Fribourg & Treyer Cut Virginia Plug. The seal was still intact and the tobacco was moist and delicious.

    Harris
    Posted 7 months ago #
  34. retrogrouch

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    Some brands, G&H in particular, put their tobacco in plastic bags before sealing them in their rectangular tins. I have no idea if this makes a difference in the seal but I suspect they take this added step for a reason.

    Posted 6 months ago #

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