Pipes Magazine » General Discussion

Search Forums  
   
Tags:   

Some Thoughts from the Wine World

(35 posts)
  1. haparnold

    Hap

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2018
    Posts: 1,008

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    We often talk on here about whether expensive/hard to obtain pipes and tobaccos are objectively better than cheaper options. I know there are people firmly entrenched in both camps on here, and I tend to find myself somewhere in no-man's land on the issue.

    However, I'm reading a book entitled Cork Dork by Bianca Bosker, which concerns the world of wine. Her words here immediately put me in mind of the pipe world:

    Researchers at Stanford University and CalTech put subjects in an fMRI machine and had them taste five bottles of Cabernet Sauvignon priced from $5 to $90 each. The tasters predictably panned the cheap $5 and $10 wines, while applauding the pricier $35, $45, and $90 bottles, which made their brains' pleasure centers go nuts with glee. But there was a twist: The bottle that cost $5 had been served a second time, disguised as a $45 wine, and the $10 wine had actually been poured from the $90 bottle. The supermarket swill was deplorable when it cost $5, and divine when accompanied by a $45 price tag.

    The scientists concluded that our brains derive pleasure not only from what we experience-- those aromatic molecules tickling our noses and tongues. Rather we're delighted by what we expect we'll perceive. In other words, all that careful attention to flavors, aging, and vintages could, for some tasters, be overshadowed just by saying a $50 Chardonnay is really a two-buck chuck. Knowing my Latour cost $275 might have enhanced its flavor as much as the oak barrels it was aged in.

    I am skeptical about scientific studies until I have a chance to read the methodology, but I find this very interesting. People in the "cheap can be good too" camp sometimes suggest that those with tastes for Balkan Sobranie in an Eltang are just pretending to get more from the experience than a cob full of Carter Hall. But it may well be that their brains are really experiencing more pleasure just by knowing the rarity and expense of their smoking materials.

    I'd love to hear what the rest of y'all think about this.

    De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum
    Posted 7 months ago #
  2. irishearl

    irishearl

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2016
    Posts: 849

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Think this applies to a lot of products, but, particularly gustatory ones. I can't afford $45 or $90 bottle of red wine but, fortunately, find that my "swill" tastes mighty fine enough.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  3. haparnold

    Hap

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2018
    Posts: 1,008

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I agree, Irishearl. I think this really goes both ways: one ought not to assume that the cheap stuff isn't great just because it's cheap, but we also shouldn't assume people who prefer pricier options are just being snobby.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  4. coyja

    coyja

    Member
    Joined: Feb 2018
    Posts: 294

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I tend to stick in the $10-15 range most of the time... mostly because I've been burnt on pricy bottles that sucked and because there is a large amount of options in that low/mid price point. Sometimes is horrid, other times is awesome, but I'm never out much. The result is I've got a good couple dozen options in that range that are good to go, for me at least.

    Now I want a glass of wine...

    Posted 7 months ago #
  5. carolinachurchwarden

    carolinachurchwarden

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2018
    Posts: 1,693

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Sounds logical to me. I, for one, am what my mom always used to, and still does on occasion, call me cheap. I don't look at it as cheap, but more frugal. I search for those $90 tasting bottles of wine for a $10 price. I know for a fact that I was never happier than I could ever remember being one night sitting at a picnic table by a sushi joint on Hatteras Island enjoying the freshest sushi while guzzling down ice cold $0.50 PBR cans. Can't explain it. Probably don't even want to in order to keep from ruining a great time with logic or theory.

    That said, there are some people in the world who derive great pleasure from being able to afford the most luxurious wines, whiskies, foods, etc. Whether they truly taste as good as they think they do, I have no idea. Could be similar to the placebo effect.

    I for one would gurantee that in a blind study, where no cost is identified, most would consider a lot of the cheaper swill to taste as good or better than the pricier stuff. It could all just be relative, like so many other things in life. Because you "think" that $200 bottle of wine tastes better than the $10 bottle, you will never find anything on the cheap side up to your standards.

    I grew up drinking homemade wines and couldn't tell you the difference between a Cabernet or a Merlot simply on taste alone, unless I can tell that the Merlot is drier than the Cab, but if not, I'm not going to really care, so long as it tastes good to me. I've seen my Step-Dad turn his nose up at a wine I thought was great while he goes to pull the cork on an $85 bottle that he liked.

    "If you can't send money, send tobacco." - George Washington

    Posted 7 months ago #
  6. mso489

    mso489

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 26,318

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    My wife is a professional food person, so has quite a bit of wine knowledge to go with it. I've had some truly fine wines, price-wise, and truly appreciate her ability to pair up wines with food, even with specific courses. However, when I buy table wine, mostly for myself now since she has meds that don't go with alcohol, I am usually pleased with distinctly inexpensive wines. I will shop by grape and take recommendations if I am in a wine store, but don't spend much. I'm often quite content with what I think is a lesser wine, and also think that I appreciate the good when when I can. On the other hand, I believe in the power of the mind to change our sense of reality. There's an old experiment where they get inexperienced drinking college boys roaring drunk on non-alcholic beverages, being told the are drinking potent booze. This ploy, old as it is, is usually effective in getting these people sauced. I don't know, but I kind of suspect the hangovers aren't too bad.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  7. workman

    workman

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jan 2018
    Posts: 1,716

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I believe in that effect. I'm sure I like a lot of Bob Dylan songs, that I wouldn't have liked if they weren't Dylan songs. I was a little awed at meeting the prime minister of Norway a couple of weeks after the massacre at Utøja, that he handled exceptionally well, even though I am aware that he is just a man lika all other men. I own expensive french cast iron frying pans that seem to fry stuff better than other pans. Etc etc.
    I'm sure about the mind's power to alter our perception of facts under the influence of different fancys. I don't think it is a bad thing. It's just the way it is. As long as nobody gets hurt, whatever pleases you is a good thing.

    Smoking is one of the leading causes of all statistics.
    Posted 7 months ago #
  8. haparnold

    Hap

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2018
    Posts: 1,008

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Well said, Workman. Why does it matter to me one way or the other if I like cobs and my fellow smoker only smokes high grades?

    Posted 7 months ago #
  9. ashdigger

    ashdigger

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jul 2016
    Posts: 5,297

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    As long as nobody gets hurt, whatever pleases you is a good thing.

    So your safe word is "Merlot"?

    In all seriousness, the whiskey world is just like the wine world. I have great expensive whiskey, bourbon, etc. and I have great inexpensive drams.

    I truly believe quite a bit is about the mental experience.

    Ubi Ignis Est?
    Posted 7 months ago #
  10. workman

    workman

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jan 2018
    Posts: 1,716

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    So your safe word is "Merlot"?

    I prefer Pinot Noir. I think. I'm sure I would never pass a blind test.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  11. coyja

    coyja

    Member
    Joined: Feb 2018
    Posts: 294

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Bottle Shock is a reasonably fun movie dramatization about the Paris Wine Tasting of 1976 in which Californian wines swept French wines in a blind taste test.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  12. warren

    warren

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 7,640

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I don't do tests. I buy and drink the wines I like. Now, keep in mind, my wine of choice in high school was from that well known vintner ... Boone's Farm.

    A man without a shillelagh is a man without an expedient.
    Posted 7 months ago #
  13. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

    The Bard Of Barlings
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 9,775

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I remember that blind Paris wine tasting. California wines won in all classes. But you have to remember that Clos du Val, which kicked ass at the tasting and which was founded just a couple of years before the famous "Judgement Of Paris", was founded by two of France's top winemakers who knew exactly what soil and climate made for an outstanding wine. That was the end of "California swill" type comments from French wine snobs, at least the ones who didn't want to be ridiculed.

    I certainly enjoyed drinking the California wines of that era. But I certainly was no connoisseur. One of my best friend's father was a member of Les Ami Du Vin and he gave me a rare Romanée Conti as a gift. I didn't like the wine, but I thought it would do for Boeuf Bourguigon. That was the last bottle he wasted on me.

    Branding can play as much of a role as quality. An ex-girfriend worked in the interior design business, selling fabrics to hotels, resorts, and other public spaces. The fabrics were largely made in India. The SAME fabric that sold for $10 a yard was rebranded at $40 a yard and rebranded yet again at $100 a yard and all of it sold quite well. The buyers perceptions were based on price and the brand's reputation within the interior design industry and it was the same fabric, just with a different label and different price.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 7 months ago #
  14. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2013
    Posts: 18,222

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Funny, when people start talking about wines, I start to salivate and get the urge to go out and buy a bottle. But, then I remember that all I taste with wine is a burning gasoline-like acid burn all the way down my throat, and then I start to get sick, like the feeling a flu gives me. Two glasses, and I am sick.

    Yeh, you know, pinto beans and cornbread is amazing to me. For under $2, I can cook a meal that is tasty in all aspects, spicy, savory, a touch of sweet. Some people really enjoy a can of Vienna sausages. Some people prefer caviar... that makes some people gag. BTW, in the US, the highest quality caviar is scum by comparison to what they serve in Russia. We only ever get the dregs here, so if you see someone enjoying caviar, let that give you a chuckle.

    But, yes, I could live off of eating cheap... but, in my life I want a few flame broiled fat primeribs, aged to perfection and served hot and crisp on the outside, and blood red on the inside. A few $70 steak in one's life isn't going to hurt.

    So, what it boils down to is that, yes, you can drink box wines and smoke grocery store cigars and have a fine life. Or, maybe you can splurge a little, for variety, and novelty. If I were on more of a budget, I would live just fine, and enjoy every minute of it. But, while I can, I don't mind dropping a grand on taking my family out for the finer things every now and then. It's just money. And, it's nice to get out of my element.

    As to something being better than another... as I will say to my dying day, it's all subjective.

    Michael
    Posted 7 months ago #
  15. lawdawg

    lawdawg

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2016
    Posts: 562

    online

    Login to Send PM

    I am well aware of the phenomenon described in Cork Dork, so I try to buy based on quality alone. I've found that there is often a certain price point you have to get to in order to find quality, and to an extent you do get what you pay for.

    For example, I wear oxford cloth button down shirts to my office every day. I've owned shirts from Brooks Brothers which retail for over $100, Ralph Lauren Polo ($90.00), Target ($25.00) as well as others. The sweet spot is Lands End oxford shirts that retail for around $50.00 and can often be had for less at Lands End's frequent sales. They are very good quality, much better than the cheaper and even equally priced brands, but without the "branding premium" that I feel comes with Polo, Brooks Brothers, etc. That said, there are some other articles of office clothing from brands like Brooks Brothers which I think are some of the best deals you can get.

    Likewise with bourbon, I am firmly of the belief that you can find as good a bottle as you would ever want for under $30.00. Larceny, Buffalo Trace, and Elijah Craig are hard to beat at any price point in the different styles of sweet, balanced, and spicy bourbons, respectively. Decent scotch, on the other hand, starts north of $40.00 unless you want just a basic speyside. However, once you start jumping up to bottles that cost over $100, in my experience you are not getting any more quality than you can expect at $60.

    Just my rambling 2 cents on the topic.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  16. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2013
    Posts: 18,222

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    It's like those $30 cigars. I don't care how damned good they are, they'd have to massage all of the "toxic masculinity" out of me, fire off an orgasm, and then gently rock me to sleep for me to pay $30 for a smoke.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  17. ashdigger

    ashdigger

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jul 2016
    Posts: 5,297

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Cosmic, so there's a chance?

    Posted 7 months ago #
  18. haparnold

    Hap

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2018
    Posts: 1,008

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The sweet spot is Lands End oxford shirts

    Lawdawg, I'm team LL Bean, but I think we have roughly the same price point for OCBDs.

    As to something being better than another... as I will say to my dying day, it's all subjective.

    I agree 100% Cosmic. But I think sometimes people with lower-end tastes either assume they're not capable of appreciating something on the high-end, or they get a reverse snobbery and assume people with high-end tastes are just being pretentious. I think the simple fact is for some people Chateau d'Yquem/Russian Caviar/Balkan Sobranie/whatever just feels better, and for other people it doesn't.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  19. irishearl

    irishearl

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2016
    Posts: 849

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    lawdog, think you're right about there being a "sweet spot" as regards price and quality for many things. You mention Ralph Lauren. I find many of their designs attractive, but they are tremendously over-priced in many of their lines such as RRL. I mean really, several hundreds for a pair of jeans. Sheesh. I work a job where I go in jacket and tie to work and like traditional, classic clothes but honestly have obtained most of my clothes second-hand including such things as a Brooks Brothers suit, cashmere topcoat, camel hair jackets, etc.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  20. lawdawg

    lawdawg

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2016
    Posts: 562

    online

    Login to Send PM

    Lawdawg, I'm team LL Bean, but I think we have roughly the same price point for OCBDs.

    If the weather is cool and it's the weekend, there is about a 75% chance that I'm wearing an LL Bean flannel. They are an excellent company and the epitome of good customer service.

    lawdog, think you're right about there being a "sweet spot" as regards price and quality for many things. You mention Ralph Lauren. I find many of their designs attractive, but they are tremendously over-priced in many of their lines such as RRL. I mean really, several hundreds for a pair of jeans. Sheesh. I work a job where I go in jacket and tie to work and like traditional, classic clothes but honestly have obtained most of my clothes second-hand including such things as a Brooks Brothers suit, cashmere topcoat, camel hair jackets, etc.

    Agreed about Ralph Lauren. Dunhill: The Ralph Lauren Polo of Pipes!

    I think you were spot on in your earlier post above when you said that this psychology applies even more so to "gustatory" products. It's easier to fool someone into thinking that something tastes good since that's more or less a subjective judgment. It's harder to pull the wool over someone's eyes with more tangible products such as clothing, though Payless shoes apparently was able to just that with their recent "Palessi" boutique shoe store experiment.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  21. shanez

    shanez

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jul 2018
    Posts: 580

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    This thread could go lots of ways, and it has!

    I'll just throw in my couple of pennies as well.

    I buy some cheap stuff and I buy some expensive stuff but most importantly I buy according to my own tastes, with an occasional recommendation followed. My tastes just don't seem to follow the crowd.

    I have a wine cellar crammed full of $15-ish/bottle wines that are fantastic. For the price. They pale compared to some of the other bottles in my collection though. The thing is, it is not a fair comparison.

    And just to muddy the waters a little more, there is always the possibility that people in the test group simply paid more attention to the wines when they thought they were more expensive and, in doing so, noticed some characteristics they might have otherwise missed.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  22. macaroon

    macaroon

    Member
    Joined: Oct 2015
    Posts: 254

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    With booze, tobacco, and innumerable other products, the law of diminishing returns is a very real factor. I agree very much with the discussion of a "sweet spot" above the obviously cheap stuff but below the point when you're really only paying more money for the brand name.

    And as always, never underestimate the power of suggestion. And the power of the placebo effect, for that matter, though that may not be quite so directly applicable here

    "I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul"
    Posted 7 months ago #
  23. sparroa

    simenon

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2010
    Posts: 1,537

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Taste is subjective, yes, but there are real differences between wines that (usually) account for the massive disparities in price.

    What is often derided as cheap wine is often just made simply for mass tastes. They source mechanically harvested grapes from a vast growing region like California or Australia and try to attain an easy drinking flavour profile at an inexpensive price point. These are designed to be enjoyed immediately as table wine or party wine for the average consumer.

    Expensive wines are typically made from more exacting methods that require more manual labour and input costs. Grapes are harvested by hand and the wines are often aged for longer periods of time in specific barrels, depending upon the local tradition. There is also the element of exclusivity because "fine wine" is finite. There is only so much land available in the best growing regions so supply and demand reigns here. If you desperately want a bottle of Chateau Margaux from a certain vintage, for example, you have to contend with the world market and pay the going rate. There are only 150,000 bottles produced every year from about 200 acres and that is not going to increase in any significant way. The best years will fetch the highest prices and you will accordingly receive a relatively rare bottle of wine from an exclusive vineyard in Bordeaux for hundreds or even thousands of dollars. This kind of wine is bought by the one percent and matured for years in cellars so they can enjoy the complexity over time. These are really a different beast in comparison to more casual wines meant to be enjoyed young at a barbecue that were blended from many different estates across a wider region. The sense of "terroir" and character offered by these high end bottles is often absent with these inexpensive options.

    If you are satisfied with the taste and value of a $25 New World blend made with Bordeaux grapes, however, you can enjoy a decent tasting imposter at a fair price and keep the rest of your money in the bank. It's no Margaux, though and there will likely always be a significant difference between them. What you judge to be better or worse is up to your own palate and budget...

    With that said, fakes and forgeries are increasingly common in the wine world and people who buy expensive bottles as a status symbol without having any knowledge to back it up are frequently the unsuspecting victims of savvy scammers. It doesn't help that a lot of wine marketing is pure fluff and sommeliers have become too esoteric with their language and practices.

    The economics of pipe tobacco doesn't really compare well to the wine world because the industry is so much smaller and companies are often buying leaf from the same sources before processing them heavily with a lot of flavourings and additives. Wine is not doctored as much so the base quality is easier to discern.

    The "best" pipe tobaccos are often quite scarce but in the past price was sometimes no real reflection of quality. McClelland, for example, used premium leaf aged for many years yet they charged prices that were typically cheaper than their average European competitors. I don't know how they made it work for so long but obviously they were happy with less profits than the more corporate rivals in the industry.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  24. flakyjakey

    flakyjakey

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2013
    Posts: 1,147

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I haven’t posted recently, but this thread caught my attention. In response to the OP there are, IMO, analogies between the wine world and our world of pipes and tobaccos, and even with the world of Hi-Fi music systems.

    Pipe smoking is my 20-year hobby, whereas fine wine collecting (and drinking) is my 40-year passion. I have a cellar of more than 3000 bottles at Octavian Vaults under the Wiltshire hills. In the house, we have a Eurocave wine cabinet that holds up to 180 bottles, and I arrange a shipment from Octavian when the cabinet is running low. My tobacco cellar is beneath the stairs in the house. Some years ago, I determined to build up both cellars while I was on a decent wage, such that when I retired I would never ‘need’ to buy more wine or more tobacco. Since I retired from clinical service last April, I have been happily consuming both.

    So, what have I learned?

    - Particularly when starting out, try as many varietals, wine makers and countries of origin as you can. Start at the low/med price range but every now and again slip in a more costly bottle – see if there is much difference. Try the wines with different foods – wine was meant to accompany food – for example, a decent bottle of red Bordeaux may not snap your socks on its own but with roast lamb it would be a perfect marriage. Apart from champagne, I think this holds true for most “Old World” wines.

    - As with pipe tobacco, your tastes are likely to change over the years. Having smoked a huge range of different tobaccos, I am now an unashamed codger - my cellar is focused on GH&Co, SG and J.F. Germain blends (no aros or blends with ‘Lakeland Essence’), but I made sure there was room for 7 pounds of ODF!! The same is true of my evolved wine cellar – now mostly French, Italian and Spanish, having been much broader a decade ago – a codger’s cellar, with ten bottles remaining of my Birth Year wine (1953)!

    - Trust your own taste buds rather than labels, although it is well worth noting the opinions of experienced and trusted wine pundits like Robert Parker and his disciples. If Parker gives a £15 wine 93/100 – I’ll take it! There is another analogy here I think. Would you pay $$$$$ for a Hi-Fi system if you could not tell the difference from a $$$ system? I wouldn’t and neither would I for wine.

    A tip – The top chateaux will produce decent wine (at a high price) even in poor vintages, but the lesser producers (and second labels of the top estates) often punch way above their weight in years when the harvested grapes are exceptional. Like picking up an eBay pipe ‘steal’, I love picking up an exceptional wine for a relatively small outlay.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  25. mso489

    mso489

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 26,318

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Much of drinking -- wine, liquor, beer, whatever -- or pipe smoking, the pleasure is in the situation. The social company and general frame of mind make all the difference. Drinking to ease the stress of a crowd of strangers versus drinking with someone you care about, friend or partner, are two different experiences. My best buzzes have been with ordinary beverage. A trip across Lake MIchigan drinking folksy fruit wine with my wife, an outdoor orchestra concert picnic drinking table wine with my sister and her husband. Much buzz, much contentment, not expensive beverages. My best pricey buzz was celebrating the birthday of a friend (pipe smoker) with an up-market single malt Scotch.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  26. trouttimes

    trouttimes

    Senior Member
    Joined: Nov 2018
    Posts: 1,114

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    For years (14) the wife dragged me to the Aspen Food &Wine Classic every summer if I was in country. I have tried bottle that cost more than my truck, I've had wine that there is only 19 bottles left on this earth. I have learned to taste the undertones like a pro but...the one truth I have learned, is to drink what you like. Once it is in a glass, a $25,000 bottle of wine looks just like a $5 bottle. It is all about what taste good to you. Yes there are a lot of people that the cost does influence their enjoyment. Good for them if they can afford it. For me, I find something like 14 Hands or White Pine is just right ( both under $20 ). My wife says I should know better but I guess I'm just an old cowboy at heart. Drink what taste good to you.

    “The Road goes ever on and on Down from the door where it began.
    Now far ahead the Road has gone, I must follow if I can
    Posted 7 months ago #
  27. krizzose

    krizzose

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2013
    Posts: 1,039

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I would have picked up on those cheap wines in the fancy labels immediately.

    Or probably not. It’s just another form of the placebo effect. And there’s certainly pleasurable innthe anticipation of something that’s supposed to be good.

    There’s also a flip side to this, I think, when you try something that by all accounts shouldn’t be that good. For example, I love Hamm’s beer for camping and filling up the cottage beer fridge at the start of the summer. It’s cheap as hell, almost comically low brow, but damn it’s not that bad at all.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  28. irishearl

    irishearl

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2016
    Posts: 849

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    lawdog, this one's for you: was just perusing the current Ralph Lauren RRL catalogue for the heck of it and, as an example of their pricing insanity, see that they have a faded and fashionably torn & worn denim work shirt for a mere $395. Actually prefer the less torn & worn denim shirt I have hanging in my closet which cost me around $20. If one wants the worn look, heck, go to Goodwill and pick one up for $4.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  29. pappymac

    pappymac

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Feb 2015
    Posts: 1,862

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Krizzose - Hamm's was a good beer. Until one of the bigger competitors bought the brewery and started cutting back on production until it's extremely hard to find. The same thing happened to a number of good beers going back decades. Who remembers Falstaff? In the 1960s it was one of the top selling beers and the third largest brewery in the country. My father drank Falstaff until he could no longer buy it, then in the 70s it fell on hard times and cut its marketing. Personally, I didn't like it when I started drinking beer in the early 70s and still remember it as being real bitter. Funny thing is there are a number of craft beers available that taste similar because they are hoppy. Falstaff is currently owned by Pabst but hasn't been made since 2000 or so.

    Point is, there have been a lot of good beer made that are considered low-brow now but taste a lot like expensive craft beers.

    I am glad we have a good admin and responsible moderators.

    Heave to you dark colored ship under sail! Prepare to be boarded!
    Posted 7 months ago #
  30. philobeddoe

    Philo Beddoe

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 4,551

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I agree that the placebo effect comes into play quite often in the higher price = better taste etc. argument. However, there are many instances when the better tasting or higher quality (X) simply costs more than the competition. For example, it is empirically more pleasurable to drive a Ferrari sports car than it is to drive a Toyota Camry, do they both transport you from A to B, yes, but the journey from A to B will be ever so much more pleasing in the Ferrari. Taste is subjective, but it can also be acquired and refined through exposure to many different examples of the objects in question.

    "So it goes." - K.V.
    Posted 7 months ago #
  31. warren

    warren

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 7,640

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I guess it boils down to, if you can't taste a difference, drink the cheaper. The Ferrari won't go where the F150 will so, it's usually in the garage.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  32. davet

    davet

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,809

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The Camry would be much more pleasurable to drive than the Ferrari this evening after 8 inches of snow

    Posted 7 months ago #
  33. philobeddoe

    Philo Beddoe

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 4,551

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I’d rather have an all-wheel drive Ferrari FF in the snow than any Camry or F150 for that matter!

    Posted 7 months ago #
  34. davet

    davet

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,809

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Didn't think of that...

    Posted 7 months ago #
  35. warren

    warren

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 7,640

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    For snow I prefer something by Bombardier.

    Posted 7 months ago #

Reply

You must log in to post.

 

 

    Back To Top  | Back to Forum Home Page

   Members Online Now
   64alex, lawdawg, donjgiles, monkeylyf, craiginthecorn