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Smoking Pipes Reporting Back to IRS ??

(54 posts)
  1. kola

    kola

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    I haven't ordered from SP in a long time. I decided to place a order only to find out about the tax disclosure that I needed to agree to before ordering. It appears they send in a tax report to the feds on every purchase and hold the customer resposible to report and pay the tax? WTF ?

    =========================================++++++++++++++
    Colorado State Sales Tax
    As of July 1, 2017, all online retailers, including Smokingpipes.com, are legally obligated to report taxable purchases to the state of Colorado. Accordingly, we're required to inform you of the following:

    (1) Smokingpipes.com does not collect Colorado Sales or Use Tax;
    (2) This purchase is not exempt from Colorado sales or use tax merely because it is made over the internet or by other remote means; and
    (3) the State of Colorado requires that a Colorado purchaser (a) file a sales or use tax return at the end of the year reporting all the taxable purchases that were not taxed and (b) pay tax on those purchases.

    What does this mean for you? At the end of the year, we'll only submit to the Colorado Department of Revenue the four pieces of information that they've required us to report: customer name, customer billing address, customer shipping address, and the total dollar amount of Colorado purchases made by each customer during the previous calendar year.

    Here's what we won't report: details about what you've ordered. We pipe smokers can be a private lot, so don't worry--we'll keep the details about what you've ordered just between us. And in order to help you Coloradans satisfy your obligations to the state, we'll be providing you with an end of year summary as well.

    As always, if you have questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to give us a call at 888-366-0345 or to write to us at info@smokingpipes.com.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I treat people the way they treat me. It's that simple.
    Posted 8 months ago #
  2. kola

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    ...guess I'll stay with P&C ,4 Noggins and others.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  3. mso489

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    I'm not happy about it, but I see this as eventually affecting all the U.S. states with sales taxes. B&M retailers have been disadvantaged, and the states have been circumvented on their taxes, so this will probably get to be standardized and streamlined. Most states cannot afford not to go after this. Maybe SP is among the first because it has become one of the larger corporate entities, now with a branch overseas.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  4. ashdigger

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    One more reason I'm glad my cellar is completed.

    Ubi Ignis Est?
    Posted 8 months ago #
  5. kola

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    Just tag it onto my bill. I don't want to have to play around come tax-time with this BS.

    Addios Smoking Pipes ! I stopped ordering anything from them years ago after three botched orders which were clearly their fault. I just wanted to get some Drucquer and Sons ....but not anymore.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  6. jvnshr

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    I am not a US citizen and I have no connection to SP but doesn't this explain the situation?

    As of July 1, 2017, all online retailers, including Smokingpipes.com, are legally obligated to report taxable purchases to the state of Colorado.

    Javan
    Posted 8 months ago #
  7. aquadoc

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    Yes, Javan, it does. And oddly enough, the Federal Government is not involved in State tax collection.

    "If you resolve to give up smoking, drinking and sex, you don't actually live longer; it just seems that way."
    Posted 8 months ago #
  8. jvnshr

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    Living in a unitary state, I forgot about the Federal Government. It is more complicated than I thought then. Thanks aquadoc.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  9. haparnold

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    Seems to me that this effects 4Noggins, P&C, etc. just as much as SP, unless SP is the only major online retailer not collecting sales tax. I think the OP has some misplaced aggravation with SP that might be better directed at the people who make tax legislation, unless I'm misunderstanding something.

    De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum
    Posted 8 months ago #
  10. winton

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    IL has a Use Tax. Effectively, this is the sales tax on items bought from other states. To comply, you could track all your online purchases, or just use a specified percent of your income. I usually find it easier to just use their chart.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  11. kola

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    No ax to grind here. If that were the case I'd go into more details.

    I just placed order a from 4 Noggins, no tax was tagged on my order and no disclosure (contractual) statements about customers having to report/pay taxes down the road.

    As I mentioned I don't care if SP charges tax, just add it on my bill. I was just wondering why SP does it that way in comparison to other tobacco retailers.

    Posted 8 months ago #
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    loadclear

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    I'm not sure where you read "IRS" of "Feds" in that.

    I read "Colorado Department of Revenue"

    So your state requires anyone doing business in the state to report taxable sales. That's a "your state" problem, not a Fed or SP problem.

    SP, or any online retailer has three options- Choose not to do business in Colorado (ie not ship to you), send the required information to the Colorado Department of Revenue, or violate Colorado law by shipping to you and not reporting it.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  13. mso489

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    With shipping and taxes, this may be a revival of the B&M shops which will now have more comparable prices. As mentioned, I'm not happy about it, but trying to invent a silver lining. I'm not needing a pipe, for sure, nor tobacco, but I am tempted by a sale now and then. That PC price on an unfinished Peterson ... rare to see a Pete of any kind at the price. And so forth.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  14. haparnold

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    I seem to recall that several online retailers don't ship to Washington state because of tax policies. Is this true? I wouldn't be surprised to see an expansion of this to other states in the future.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  15. kola

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    Yep, sorry, state not feds.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  16. woodsroad

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    Hap, the reason that tobacco retailers won’t ship tobacco to Washington state is that state has made it illegal to do so. Not a tax issue, although I’m sure that WA also requires e-tailers to collect a sales/use tax.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  17. prairiedruid

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    Actually after the Supreme Court case this year that North Dakota won states now can require online retailers to collect sales tax at time of purchase. Just a matter of time until each state passes a law to activate the collection.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  18. folanator

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    It probably has to do with Sales tax. The vendor has to pay tax if they ship over a certain number of transactions or a certain number of $'s. If you live in a State that does not order much tobac, you may/should in fact be exempt.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  19. prairiedruid

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    you may/should in fact be exempt.

    Nope you always were on the hook for the sales tax; just used to be you had to self report it which most people don't do, hence the court case to force retailers to collect it.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  20. zitotczito

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    I already pay PA taxes from PipesandCigars since I live in PA so no big deal there. I also keep a folder in my email account that I put in my taxable transactions from other states to be used for tax time. I have been paying PA use taxes on out of state purchases for years. If I buy $3000.00 in purchases I owe the State of PA $180.00. No matter how I look at it that $180.00 is less than a lawyer would cost me for an hour of his time. To me it's a small price to pay to not be aggravated.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  21. weezell

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    this may be a revival of the B&M shops which will now have more comparable prices.
    Can't revive something that does not exist. That's the problem in my area...

    "the weez"...
    Posted 8 months ago #
  22. dochudson

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    If an online retailer to shipping into Colorado and not reporting the sales to the Colorado tax folks they will eventually have a problem.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  23. kcghost

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    No need looking for a problem where one doesn't exist.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  24. folanator

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    If an online retailer to shipping into Colorado and not reporting the sales to the Colorado tax folks they will eventually have a problem.

    Incorrect. If your State has a tax, you need to accrue and pay separately. The online vendor is not responsible for Sales tax unless they are located in the State or sell a high % of sales into that State.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  25. peckinpahhombre

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    This is a Colorado state law that SP is seeking to comply with and, in light of the recent SCOTUS decision in Wayfair, they obviously feel they must comply or risk fairly severe penalties. That law requires reporting to the Colorado Department of Revenue of sales by out-of-state vendors into Colorado where the vendor's total gross sales into Colorado are more than $100k in a calendar year.

    Many states are following suit, either requiring reporting or actual collection of the tax. In most cases the threshhold is at least $100k of sales or reaching a prescribed number of transactions in that state in a calendar year.

    Hard to blame SP for complying with the law. If you have an issue, speak to your elected state representative and complain.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  26. sablebrush52

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    As I mentioned I don't care if SP charges tax, just add it on my bill. I was just wondering why SP does it that way in comparison to other tobacco retailers.

    They're probably trying to avoid the headache of calculating the tax for all of the states and municipalities involved, potentially hundreds of different rates. If they're legally required to collect the tax they will have to figure that out.

    I've always paid the use tax. I've expected that it was inevitable that taxes would be levied on internet sales. The use tax gets credited against any state tax that I owe, so it's a zero sum deal for me.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 8 months ago #
  27. perdurabo

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    Well it looks like Colorado is the problem. If you live there change the law at the ballot box or not. It may be worth paying some tax so that internet commerce can survive.

    It's not my position nor want to help another man. It's his responsibility to help himself, as where he can learn to dig down deep enough to save himself. -I. Kidd
    Posted 8 months ago #
  28. kola

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    I live part-time in CO and in AZ. Yep CO appears to be a singled out state-taxy'-issue going after the vendor having $100k+ in sales.

    I guess the other vendors that don't affix that tax clause in their orders is because they don't make $100k - or they refuse to play. If the latter, and as someone mentioned, they'll get snagged eventually.

    Once again, I'm not bitching about paying the tax (tag it on my bill) nor do I want to attempt to change the "law" (ain't gonna happen IMHO) I just wondered why SP is the only vendor doing it. Now, I guess I know. Maybe. Why maybe? I tend to think some other vendors easily rake in $100k in sales but I could be wrong.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  29. jpmcwjr

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    Many states are following suit, either requiring reporting or actual collection of the tax. In most cases the threshold is at least $100k of sales or reaching a prescribed number of transactions in that state in a calendar year.

    That is scary that a state could force collection of the tax; reporting is bad enough. I guess Amazon has bitten the bullet and just charges it upfront, then remits to the State that imposes it- wonder how many states that is?

    Hard to blame SP for complying with the law. If you have an issue, speak to your elected state representative and complain.

    Absolutely, though it's more fun to bitch and moan. (I do no different).

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 8 months ago #
  30. ron123

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    Does anyone that advises "change it at the ballot box" have any positive experiences of ever having successfully done so themselves? You know, I mean, really rallying the base and advocating a cause. Unless you're a career politician, it doesn't seem very practical. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  31. alan73

    alan73

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    oh Ron, why be so pragmatic

    Posted 8 months ago #
  32. blackadderlxx

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    Does anyone that advises "change it at the ballot box" have any positive experiences of ever having successfully done so themselves? You know, I mean, really rallying the base and advocating a cause. Unless you're a career politician, it doesn't seem very practical. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though.

    Lol. This.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  33. perdurabo

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    Politics is forbidden on this site. So elaborating on that statement is impossible for anyone to do. Changing your representatives is the only action you have. To answer your question Ron, no. Good luck changing a tax law. But really is there anything you can do besides what Peck and I advised?

    Also using statements as a foil to prop up politics is only going to create click bait and the occasional Anonymous Declaration.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  34. kola

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    Right on, Ron. George Carlin has a good take on "voting"

    Posted 8 months ago #
  35. brian64

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    "If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it." - Mark Twain

    “Bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.” – George Carlin
    Posted 8 months ago #
  36. alan73

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    Ron, you have my exact same hair do. Left to right business man haircut, that’s what my wife calls it

    Posted 8 months ago #
  37. mothernaturewilleatusallforbreakfast

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    Birth, Death, Taxes... sorry, I meant to say Taxes, Birth, Taxes, Death, Taxes, Birth.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  38. ron123

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    Alan, I go to the same barber all the time, and he still always asks How do you want it? I always say, Just normal...I'll go with Left to right business man's cut, the next time I'm there LOL

    Posted 8 months ago #
  39. dochudson

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    If an online retailer to shipping into Colorado and not reporting the sales to the Colorado tax folks they will eventually have a problem.
    Incorrect. If your State has a tax, you need to accrue and pay separately. The online vendor is not responsible for Sales tax unless they are located in the State or sell a high % of sales into that State.

    Again, all untaxed online sales into Colorado need to be reported to Colorado tax people!!

    Posted 8 months ago #
  40. swilford

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    I've been studiously avoiding weighing in here, but I think I probably should at this point.

    In 2017, Colorado started requiring out of state sellers to either collect sales tax or report sales to CO and the customer. This isn't new: we've been complying with this law for a year. I can't speak to why others are or aren't doing it: maybe they're too small, maybe they're non-compliant, maybe they're compliant but their customer communication on the subject isn't as robust as Smokingpipes'.

    As of December 1st, we have to move to collecting and remitting sales tax directly to CO anyway, so this reporting stuff will become moot soon enough. I can walk through the various laws and changes over the past few years, but anyone actually curious can google the relevant information.

    But, yeah, it's law; it's legal law; it's a thing. We take privacy concerns really seriously, which sounds trite, but is also why we're very up front and public about what we're doing. Note, of course, that the initial post was prompted by us telling the OP exactly what and how we were doing it (of course, somehow a detailed explanation of reporting for sales tax purposes to Colorado became reporting to the IRS, which is not the case). We're going to comply with laws we're obliged to comply with, but we're as protective of our customers as we can be, so we don't entertain information fishing expeditions or broad requests. In situations where we--me, compliance at Laudisi, outside counsel--don't think the agency in question has the authority to request information, we simply say no and try to provide some combination of redacted examples and meta-data that will tell them what they need to know without exposing privileged information.

    And we have never, ever provided information to state or federal agencies about customers without notifying customers before they initiate the transaction (hence the information about Colorado's laws peppered into the checkout process if the destination address is in CO).

    Sykes

    Posted 8 months ago #
  41. bluegrasspipe

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    I got the notice last year from them in Colorado. Reporting it well, that is another matter.

    For tho' at my simile many may joke,
    Man is but a pipe—and his life but smoke.
    Posted 8 months ago #
  42. kola

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    Thanks for the clear explanation, Sykes.

    I did make a mistake on my initial posting by saying it was a IRS issue, then was corrected by another member and I apologized for it.

    My experieces with tax issues (whether they be fed or state) is that Uncle Scam catches you sooner or later. Unless you're filthy rich ------ or a politician. OK, that should close the thread, lol.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  43. mikestanley

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    Just out curiosity, is this required reporting retroactive?
    Mike S.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  44. swilford

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    Just out curiosity, is this required reporting retroactive?
    Mike S.

    No. We made it clear from checkout for Colorado customers at the same time we were obliged to start reporting, so only customers who were notified that their gross purchase value (but not the items) would be reported were reported.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  45. jpmcwjr

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    Clear as a bell, Sykes. Unfortunate, but clear!

    I wonder if kola might request a change in the title, as it's more inflammatory than it need be, as well as inaccurate.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  46. mikestanley

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    Sykes said: No. We made it clear from checkout for Colorado customers at the same time we were obliged to start reporting, so only customers who were notified that their gross purchase value (but not the items) would be reported were reported.

    Thanks. So, State sales tax only. I figured they might demand at least the tax year's info.
    Mike S.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  47. spartacus

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    I live in Arizona and Smokingpipes charges me sales tax whereas tobaccopipes and P&C don't. It makes a difference in where I purchase pipes and tobacco.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  48. sablebrush52

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    I live in Arizona and Smokingpipes charges me sales tax whereas tobaccopipes and P&C don't. It makes a difference in where I purchase pipes and tobacco.

    Fear not. Soon everyone will be charging you sales tax on internet purchases.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  49. jaytex969

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    I just placed an order with Cigars International and was surprised to see sales tax added. I am not in their state.

    Gunner, Black Frigate. Say "Hello" to my little friend!
    Posted 8 months ago #
  50. sablebrush52

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    I just placed an order with Cigars International and was surprised to see sales tax added. I am not in their state.

    Being in the same state as the seller has no bearing. Did they charge you at your state's rate? That's what they're now obligated to do, collect your state's sales tax and send it to your state.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  51. jaytex969

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    That's exactly what they did. I was just surprised to see it, as it had not happened before.

    Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's...

    Posted 8 months ago #
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    bent1

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    Problem is the state of Colorado. I see the day with forced health care that tobacco purchases will be restricted.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  53. lordofthepiperings

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    I do recall the last order I placed with SP they tacked on sales tax to it. Don't recall getting a message from them regarding the state of Nevada.

    I never really gave much thought to sales tax ever being enforced on internet sales, but it does make sense. As the saying goes, Uncle Sam always finds a way to get his money.

    I'll continue to order from SP, because first and foremost they have the nicest most knowledgeable people in the biz working for them and second they tend to have more products that aren't in stock elsewhere. You're also not going to run across a better place to acquire estate pipes from either. Best clean up work, pictures, and they overall dimension the pipe so you know exactly what you're getting. On top of that trading in pipes to them for store credit is the easiest process I've ever gone through.

    Sykes, Shane, Kaz, Chip, Andy, Chuck, Josh, Adam and the rest of the crew at both SmokingPipes and SmokingPipes Europe thanks for all you do for the community. Have a happy Thanksgiving.

    "The thinking man always smokes a Peterson." -Peterson of Dublin
    Posted 8 months ago #
  54. jpmcwjr

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    It is NOT "Uncle Sam" (the Feds) doing this. It is a few states, and will probably spread to all of them except Alaska. (unless Amazon buys the state)

    I too wish Happy TD to the staff of SP as well as all brothers of the briar.

    Posted 8 months ago #

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