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SG and Gawith, Hoggarth & Co.

(27 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by dragonslayer
  • Latest reply from doctorthoss
  1. dragonslayer

    dragonslayer

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    How do SG and Gawith, Hoggarth & Co. stand up to each other when we are talking straight VA, not blended? Same thing or which is better in product.

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    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. samcoffeeman

    samcoffeeman

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    Never tried any Hoggarth's, but FVF is renowned as one of the best Va. I agree with that, but like I said, I have nothing to compare it to from Hoggarth. My other favorite Va is Blackwoods flake from McClelland.

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    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. cortezattic

    Cortez

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    Sam Gawith's Medium Virginia Flake is not mentioned too often, but it's a wonderful smoke.
    Gawith, Hoggarth's Bright CR Flake is exceptional also.
    One of the most exquisite Va flakes around is the new Erik Stokkebye 4th Generation 1855.

    IMO all three are pretty much on a par, but I like 1855, Bright CR and MVF in that order.
    Of course, no discussion of straight Va's should omit Mac Baren Virginia #1 -- in my book, a benchmark Va.

    Funny thing, all of the above are broken flakes.

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    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. thesmokindragon

    thesmokindragon

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    Never had a bad SG flake haven't tried any Hoggarth's flake just yet

    Some of my fav SG flakes;
    FVF
    Bracken
    1792
    St. James
    Navy
    BB

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. eaglerico

    eaglerico

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    dragon

    From some recent threads here and some researching I have found that apparently there are many more blends offered by both companies you mentioned that are not regular offerings in the USA. I say this as you might find more info on both if you find some European boards to peruse. I have been trying to find a European located tobacco review site as well, I haven't look hard, but I haven't found anything yet.

    I myself am just starting to work my way through VAs and the only straight VAs I have experienced is MB No1. I have had to mix it with other blends. Too bold for me by itself.

    Glenn
    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. ohiopuffer

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    I want to try the SG Black Cherry tobacco but its pretty hard to find and not available in the US.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. dragonslayer

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    I guess to get specific would be the comparisons between the BBF and FVF, and their offerings. Mainly due to availability and being able to get untouched 17oz bags.

    Craig

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    I'm a big virginia lover and, silly me, I much prefer SG Best Brown Flake to FVF. Just tastes better and smoother IMO.

    Haven't tried the SG Medium Virginia Flake yet, but I probably should.

    I was never a fan of MacB Va #1 -- nothing wrong with it per se, just not my thing. Good blender though.

    I have some 1855 (and the 1931, which isn't "pure" virginia) in the cellar to age some.

    I really like the G&H Bright CR Flake. I have 1 pound plus a jar in the cellar; I should get more. Great straight up and it blends very well with my Izmir.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. sparroa

    simenon

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    Dragonslayer,

    I don't think that Gawith Hoggarth has any replacement blends for FVF or BBF.

    Most of their tobaccos are a combination of Virginia and Burley.

    As well, most of their "unscented" tobaccos have a touch of that traditional floral/soapy casing. Some people argue that their use of the same machinery imparts a touch of the Lakeland essence to all of their blends - a blend signature, if you will...

    If there is a substitute for those popular Samuel Gawith flakes out there, believe me, it would be equally sold out. I have seen that question asked many times and I have never seen a satisfactory answer come from it.

    Most of us just move on to a different style of VA or simply wait it out for the next batch to arrive.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. dragonslayer

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    Yeah BBF and FVF are my number 1 and 2 favorites. I'm stocking and just wanted to make sure that there wasn't a match I was missing. Missed the St. James window last week, had already ordered a pound of each. I have years, but looking for decades.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. mlyvers

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    i like the lakelands myself. the only SG tobacs i

    t be of more help to you sir.

    mike.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. cigrmaster

    cigrmaster

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    I tried a couple of the GH flakes and am not a fan of the Lakeland essence, which is why I prefer the SG flakes. My favorites in order are ST James, Best Brown, FVF. Of course that could change a few months from now.

    Harris
    Posted 1 year ago #
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    As well, most of their "unscented" tobaccos have a touch of that traditional floral/soapy casing. Some people argue that their use of the same machinery imparts a touch of the Lakeland essence to all of their blends - a blend signature, if you will...

    I tried a couple of the GH flakes and am not a fan of the Lakeland essence

    The G&H Bright CR Flake, to my taste has zero Lakeland -- and I too cannot tolerate soap and floral.

    I suppose there's good an bad to having super sensitive palates; in this case it's too bad, really.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. pitchfork

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    I smoke both SG and GH flakes. In my experience, the SG flakes are much smoother and more refined -- the flavors are just more tightly structured or better integrated.

    That being said, I actually prefer GH's Best Brown #2 (which has a touch of burley) to SG Best Brown Flake and its cousin FVF. I also like GH's Brown Flake Unscented (which has a touch of dark fired leaf -- and some people find it to be very much scented indeed!).

    I enjoy the tangy, zesty flavors that GH VA's have compared to the smoother flavors from SG. I haven't had GH CR Flake, but I bet it's good. It's supposed to be the unscented cousin of Glengarry Flake which is a wonderful, sweet, bright VA flake (with just a touch of sweet flavoring).

    Still, I like both FVF and Best Brown Flake and occasionally choose them over a GH blend. If SG VA's are fine French cooking, then GH VA's are more like Tex-Mex -- both are good, but the styles are different.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. cigrmaster

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    roth, I am glad to hear you cannot taste the essence in the Bright CR, which Gawith is similar to this one? I just checked the price and it is very reasonable. Do I need to add this to the cellar?

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    Harris, I dunno -- hard to compare the Bright with the SG blends I smoked (I haven't tried the SG Medium Flake).

    IMO, G&H Bright CR Flake is mild and sweet, with rounded yet slightly tart (some call this high note) flavors that are all subtle -- more like Dunhill Flake -- if a bit more amped up than DF.

    SG FVF and even Best Brown are just... well, more intense is the best way I can put it and, for me, with less in the subtleties I mention (or they are simply overwhelmed). That intensity can be good, even great early on, but I found my enthusiasm waning a bit for them (I haven't reordered FVF, I have some tins of BBF but haven't reached for it in a long while), and the St. James I tried a bowl of seemed to have too much Perique to me but I have to admit I haven't given the SG Va/Per a fair try). The intensity I mentioned, in the case of FVF, is a bit over the edge for me, which is why I prefer BBF over the FVF. It's more nuanced.

    I wanted order a bag of BBF as I do not want to pop a tin of it (my tins are not that old), and tried doing so after you mentioned it was back in stock at SPC, but I checked again just now and it still shows as out of stock.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. sparroa

    simenon

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    I don't think I have a sensitive palate for the most part, but if there is a flavour/scent I don't like then it sticks out like a sore thumb.

    On the other hand, I am always metaphorically "chasing the dragon" and trying to find the intense flavours I once experienced that now seem milder. It can be quite frustrating and usually the only thing that solves it for me is an extended break to rest the palate.

    FVF and BBF are too mild in taste for me as it is so I would not enjoy a subtler blend if thats what the CR Flake is... (Also, I would like to see more perique in St James Flake - different strokes...)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. doctorthoss

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    I doubt very seriously that either company makes "straight VA, not blended" -- I'm not quite sure what you mean. Both companies use a blend of different leaf (even if it's all virginia) and both process their tobaccos. GH tends to use the classic "Lakeland" sauce quite liberally, while SG seems to use straight sugar or something similar as a casing.
    Both companies have superlative products, I think, and I doubt that there's really any qualitative difference between them. I personally like GH products, but it seems to me that more guys like SG products. Full Virginia Flake is probably the best "straight" VA on the market, although I prefer Blackwoods Flake myself.

    "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. For even the wise cannot see all ends. -- J.R.R. Tolkien
    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. dragonslayer

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    Right now I'm consentrating on ageing in order. BBF, FVF, AK (I think this will be a suprise in 1,5,10 years), St. James and escudo. But things change, but for ageing it's got to be a VA, Vapers for any ageing, otherwise it's just storing.

    Craig

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. sparroa

    simenon

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    Few people say straight VA with the intention of meaning that it is a single crop or varietal of Virginia.

    That would be the exception rather than the rule. I can't really think of one at the moment.

    Also, it is almost a given that there is a tiny percentage of burley in "straight VA" but in the case of a company such as Gawith Hoggarth who differentiate themselves by declaring the burley, I would think that their blends consist of a higher burley percentage and that it contributes a lot of character to the tobacco whereas it is mostly there for filler or body in everything else.

    The McClelland VAs are great, of course, but they are so far from the Sam Gawith offerings that it isn't funny. (I know that you aren't suggesting otherwise, doctorthoss, I just want to make it clear to others who may not be aware of their fundamental differences)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. cigrmaster

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    roth, the Best Brown usually last only a day or so. You should sign up for their email notification so you can grab it next time. Remember that the 250 gram boxes are in their tinned selection.

    I was reading the reviews on the Bright Flake and it was interesting, some people did not detect the Lakeland essence but many did. They said it was lighter than the other GH flakes but still there. Based on the mildness and the fact I might be able to taste it, I am not going to search this one out. I have tons of SG flakes and really do not feel like stocking any more bulks. I am so running out of room for any more bulks, my freaking closet is loaded.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. dochudson

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    so how do you pronounce.. Gawith Hoggarth

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    Posted 1 year ago #
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    Anonymous

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    so how do you pronounce.. Gawith Hoggarth

    It is GAH-WITH *AND* HOGG-ARTH to you, sir.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    I am so running out of room for any more bulks, my freaking closet is loaded.

    I'm almost on the same wavelength regarding BBG. If I do find some 250g bags, I'll get some. As for FVF, it's just not that worthwhile to me, period.

    The G&H Bright CR is fine fresh and matures to be absolutly stunning aged. And it's easy to find.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. cigrmaster

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    roth, I find FVF to be the most finicky blend that I have. I had an incredible smoke the other night. I let it dry a good 2 hours and I smoked it in a group 4 Dublin. I was having difficulty finding the right pipes for it and also getting it to the perfect humidity. Best Brown on the other hand smokes great in so many different pipes,and the humidity doesn't have to be so exact. My St James Flake is also a lot more versatile. If you have a group 4 Dublin give it a shot and see if you notice a difference.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    . If you have a group 4 Dublin give it a shot and see if you notice a difference.

    Harris, thanks. I do have a Dunhill Group 4, but I don't have any FVF, and given my take on it (as well as getting tired even reading the hops you are going through with it), I'll hold on to my opinion and pass on further investments in that blend.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. doctorthoss

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    simenon -- you're correct, of course! McClelland VAs have little in common with SG products. Different leaf, different processing, different presentation.... Totally different (if equally good) products.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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