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Samuel Gawith Majorly Different

(38 posts)
  • Started 10 months ago by steamboat
  • Latest reply from hiplainsdrifter
  1. steamboat

    steamboat

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    I just finished a tin of 2014 1792 Flake, and ordered the 250g box. What i received was not a minor change from the previous batch, but a totally different blend. What i got was basically Dark Birdseye Flake. The unique 1792 smell of the tonkin bean is not even present in the tin note or smoke. It even has some anise smell to the flake, sorta like Peterson Irish Flake. Luckily i love Dark Birdseye and all Dark Fired Kentucky blends, so this will all be smoked, but it is NOT 1792 in any shape or form. Anybody else experiencing major differences in the recently released Sammy G blends?

    Posted 10 months ago #
  2. workman

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    I have an open tin of 1792 from may. It certainly both smells and tastes like tonquin. No anise.

    Smoking is one of the leading causes of all statistics.
    Posted 10 months ago #
  3. steamboat

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    That is good to know, maybe i just got a fluke box. I will order another tin to compare. I am hoping to be the only one here to have experienced this change, as i really enjoy 1792 as of recently.

    Posted 10 months ago #
  4. workman

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    I have seen posters complaining about inconsistency with SG on other threads. I wouldn't know. My first 1792 was around last christmas.

    Posted 10 months ago #
  5. canadianpuffer

    canadianpuffer

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    I grabbed a few tins from the recent shipment to smoking pipes, one popped open in transit. Man my mailbox smelled like tonquin when I opened it. Worked out well as it had dried just enough to smoke right upon delivery! But same old 1792 that I remember.

    Posted 10 months ago #
  6. mrenglish

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    I have a friend who smokes 1792 on the way to work in the morning and he's had batches that taste different or even a little weaker in strength from time to time.

    Michael
    Posted 10 months ago #
  7. josephcross

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    one popped open in transit

    Well, I had a strange occurrence with a tin of 1792 recently. First I got dinged for a single tin *ouch, paid for it at the post. I was quickly given a plastic wrapped envelope full of yellow tape and shooed out the door. It was pretty smelly and not ever have had fresh 1792 I was pretty excited, though I wasnt sure of the plastic wrap.
    Got home, opened it up and was surprised that the tin had either popped open in transit, or was opened by customs. Either way it was kindly taped up and sent on its way to me. I figured that it was a new service by customs to start drying out Gawaith blends before they reach their customers. It only took a few days for me to get that flake dry.

    Posted 10 months ago #
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    robcapp

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    I was thinking one of my 250g St James Flake boxes was blended to dark - the Perique seemed like it was added way to liberally. Even when I opened the box, the flakes were almost black. I smoked a bowl of it, and or was seriously intense.
    Another box I recieved had a far more familiar colour, and taste.

    Posted 10 months ago #
  9. perdurabo

    perdurabo

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    I ordered a Box of SG Full Virginia Flake last year. The tobacco was completely different than what I had smoked from the tin. It was an uneventful bright Virginia flake with grassy hay notes. The tin FVF is dark malty and bready. . Now that I've aged the flake for a year, I can say the taste has improved, but it ain't the FVF I've had in the past.

    It's not my position nor want to help another man. It's his responsibility to help himself, as where he can learn to dig down deep enough to save himself. -I. Kidd
    Posted 10 months ago #
  10. steamboat

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    The flake cut i got has completely different as well. 1792 was a thick flake, that i used to cube cut. After it was cube cut if I wanted to break down the cubes further, i had to really work out the cubes to get a ribbon/shag going. The new batch were long thin shreds sorta like a G&H Flakes. It also rubes out like FT CVP into perfect ribbon with little effort.

    Posted 10 months ago #
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    heyeveryone

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    Hello everyone!

    Sorry for bumping this thread but trying to find an answer to this.

    I recently bought two tins of SG SJF that are completely different, both in flake and tin color.. One of the tins, which i also supspect is older contains thick, dark, almost black flakes with a "dark" smell of dry fruits.

    The other smells like straight up hay with a much lighter hint of dry fruits. Flakes being bright/light in color, with very little dark parts. As example, my only previous experince of SG is my tin of FVF, and those flakes are of darker color.

    Thickness before cutting seems different, where the lighther one is of thinner size and the darker was a big slab.

    And to get to my question, i have tried both this forum and search engine but never found an answer to this - is this SG being SG, old machines and all. Or has it something to do with the SG/HM merge?

    Thanks

    Posted 1 month ago #
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    oldgeezersmoker

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    Hard to say if one or the other of your possible reasons is correct, but not an unusual question. My own opinion is that they use quality raw ingredients that vary from time to time at least in appearance. And perhaps taste, too.. if a recipe calls for x% of Malawi Virginia, then that is how it goes out the door regardless of variations in the crop. The casing and toppings do seem to me to be consistent and over a period of time, my opinion and experience is that things tend to reach equilibrium. I have never had a tin or bag of 1792 that didn’t smell like Tonquin, though. That would be a concern. But YMMV.

    Posted 1 month ago #
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    64alex

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    Another variable to consider is that many blends have really the same tobacco components but processed in different ways. For example Golden Glow, Best Brown and FVF are exactly the same with difference being in the 1st there is no heating/steaming, in the 2nd a little bit and in the 3rd a full of it. So there could be some differences in processing from batch to batch. Think like going to the bakery and one day you get bread undercooked and soft and another day a bread overcooked and crusty.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  14. hiplainsdrifter

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    I think Gawith might have some serious QC issues, probably in their packaging 'department'. I just got a box of Best Brown that was definitely quite different than any I have purchased previously. It's appearance matches Golden Glow. If you search the forum, you will find pretty regular reports of variable appearance and taste with S. Gawith products. I expect some variability, but it seems like they are having a hard time putting the right label on the right blend lately. I like 64alex's bakery analogy. Unfortunately if I experienced that much variability, I would go get my bread somewhere else. Who cares if you got a good loaf once, if you never know if you will get another. I do LOVE S. Gawith Virginia blends, so this is disappointing to be sure. To answer heyeveryone's question more directly, I have never opened SJF even when fresh and found anything other than dark flakes. Like FVF dark or darker.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  15. npod

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    I jarred up a few boxes of St James and 1792 tonight. The flakes where 250 gr boxes purchased a few weeks ago. The product for both looked great and no change vs 2014 to my eye. YMMV, and this thread certainly is intriguing since others have had a different experience.

    Neal
    Posted 1 month ago #
  16. hoosierpipeguy

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    So you smoke tobacco from 2014 and some from 5 years later and it tasted different. I for one would be a lot more surprised, and disappointed, if the two weren't different. The 5 and 6 year old SG blends I've have and smoked look nothing like what I've canned in the past 9 months. And I'll bet 9 out of 10 or 19 out of 20 smokers would swear they weren't the same blend if they tasted both one after the other.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  17. lochinvar

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    Had the same experience with my most recent box of BBF. I'm pretty sure Golden Glow got put in a BBF box. Way too loose and (most telling) way too light. Golden Glow is ok, I wasn't totally burned, but it will definitely sit longer than BBF or FVF.
    To their credit, I'm sure the two Gawiths are still adjusting to being in one House, and it's not like its a huge operation. As long as someone doesn't accidentally put the Grousemoor concoction on a batch of FVF, it isn't that bad.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  18. npod

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    I’m not sure we are talking about the same thing Hoosier. I was simply referring to the way the flakes present fresh out of the box. I wasn’t comparing Aged tobacco or color or flavor from different years (eg, 2014 aged vs 2019 fresh). The OP was interested if the fresh flakes have changed. In that regard I see no difference: same color, same cut, same smell. I’m smoking fresh 1792 right now and is the same fresh as it was in 2014 and each year since I’ve been cellaring. But others mention they noticed a change in quality, so there may be something going on. It just hasn’t been noticeable to me (yet).

    Edit: I reread your post. Maybe I’m more confused about what you are getting at. Do you mean that in general blends do change year to year due to nature and climate, etc? And that in any year a blend may change slightly?

    Posted 1 month ago #
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    oldgeezersmoker

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    Interesting pictures of the St.James. I have seen a picture posted elsewhere just in the least few days that showed some that was much lighter in color than I have ever seen. Your picture is about the shade I am used to.

    Not to answer for Hoosier, but I think SG and GH do change some from time to time. Always have. Nothing recent about that. They do tend to revert to the mean given some (modest) time.

    Posted 1 month ago #
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    bent1

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    Confirming what Alex posted. Heard that from SG reps at the Chicago show in 2008.

    Posted 1 month ago #
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    heyeveryone

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    I took a closer look at my SJF tins now that i am home again. Unfortunately i dont own a camera so i will use some google pictures as comparison.. All rights and all that to the rightfull owners ofc.

    The tin which i suspect is older looks very similar to this picture, but even darker in color,

    And the other one looks similar to this one, but even ligher in color,

    The darker one has a very rubbery consistency, almost impossible to rub out with the tobacco wanting to form a ball rather then turn into ribbons.. The lighter colored one is slightly crumbly and i can literally rub it onehanded with 3 fingers.

    I have not smoked any of them yet, and to be honest, im almost scared to.. Incase there is a taste difference and i happen to like the older "version" better.. If there is such a thing as new or old version.

    Posted 1 month ago #
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    heyeveryone

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    I cant edit my last post but to compare it with my tin of FVF, they look almost identical to this picture.

    Posted 1 month ago #
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    occa

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    I bought some of the last batch of 1792 weeks ago, dark with hardly if any tonquin but still heavy nicotine content. A tin I bought a couple years ago was a bit too heavy on the tonquin. Was fully entertained by both.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  24. hiplainsdrifter

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    Great photos heyeveryone. Those two SJF are WAY different IMO and I think that your theory that the lighter one is FVF is very plausible. Can you taste any perique in it? Hoosier, I see you came on over to poo poo this thread just like you did my thread a week or so back. I haven't seen anyone say that they think aged and fresh tobacco should be the same. We are talking about variability in fresh product.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  25. hawky454

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    I think Gawith might have some serious QC issues,

    Yeah, that’s it. Think you guys better stop buying their tobaccos for a spell, why not boycott them?.

    As they say, you can take it or leave it. I’d be happy if more people left it just so those that are totally okay with their “quality control” issues amazingness can have more than 30 seconds to buy some of their blends before the vultures do. Yup, sometimes you’re gonna get the bottom of the barrel scraps but it’s still the same blend and ya should be happy you got some. As others have already mentioned there are always going to be inconsistencies when dealing with a natural product, if ya don’t like that, don’t buy from them. Me? I’m totally happy to buy from them and I’ve never had a single problem with QC issues where their blends didn’t taste amazing as usual. Most of these threads pop up before the user even smokes the stuff. Oi vey.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  26. cosmicfolklore

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    +1 Hawky, ha ha.
    It's hard to feel sorry for someone who was richer and faster than me... at getting 20 lbs, 2 seconds after it was released... so it don't taste good? Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

    Just kidding. I stopped buy SG products a while ago.

    Michael
    Posted 1 month ago #
  27. hoosierpipeguy

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    npod, my post was directed toward the OP, not your own. I have no doubt there are changes from year to year. The tobacco crops are not identical year to year. We're dealing with a organic material here and antiquated manufacturing processes (and process controls). I didn't get in on the SG round of buying in the past month so I can't comment on recent production.

    Aside from that, I'll defer to hawky's post.

    Posted 1 month ago #
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    oldgeezersmoker

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    I’d be happy if more people left it just so those that are totally okay with their “quality control” issues amazingness can have more than 30 seconds to buy some of their blends before the vultures do.

    +1

    Actually, I kind of have mixed feelings. If SG and GH weren’t selling so well, the distributors might bring in less of it and/or cut the number of SKU,s they support. Even with the vultures, I haven’t had too many issues getting what I want from the on line stores and a few phone calls. One blend I would like more of from SG didn’t show up at all in this drop, but I am hoping it will in the next one

    Posted 1 month ago #
  29. hiplainsdrifter

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    Cosmic, who bought 20 lbs? I bought two boxes. I agree that if someone isn't happy with a product, they should shop elsewhere. However I find the logic of 'it's not what I ordered but it's Gawith so all good' quite surprising. If I go to a restaurant and order prime rib, and get fried chicken, I would be dissatisfied, even if the chicken is good. Hawky, it's NOT the same blend. That's the whole point of this discussion.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  30. cigrmaster

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    It is clear to me that the SG era is over. Since their merger with GH, consistency has been a serious issue. Contamination of non Lakeland blends is a real thing. I think we need to create a Before Merger status and an After Merger status. So all of my SG flakes are BM making them far more valuable than the AM product.

    Harris
    Posted 1 month ago #
  31. cosmicfolklore

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    Cosmic, who bought 20 lbs?

    I bought 20lbs. But, I am not complaining. Actually, I jarred it all, so it'll be ten,twenty years till I can complain.

    Posted 1 month ago #
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    oldgeezersmoker

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    Since their merger with GH, consistency has been a serious issue. Contamination of non Lakeland blends is a real thing.

    I have smoked GH since the early 1980’s and SG since I guess about the mid 1990’s. Consistency has always been something of an issue. I can’t say if it is more or less of one now, but I haven’t had the contamination issue crop up yet. I don’t doubt that reports from users who are stating their personal experience are true.

    Posted 1 month ago #
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    heyeveryone

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    Hello everyone!

    As previously stated, i dont own a camera but managed to borrow/rent one for today..

    What i suspect is the older tin is to the left (smaller warning label)

    https://imgur.com/a/8bIrRG9
    https://imgur.com/a/SMnlNRk
    https://imgur.com/a/ifrT8PF
    https://imgur.com/a/LmLdpiQ
    https://imgur.com/a/jPY10nJ

    Having trouble getting good picture on inside content, but this is the "new" one.. Its lighter in person then on camera.
    https://imgur.com/a/WMK7ANA

    And here we have the "old" one,
    https://imgur.com/a/V7PVB4a

    Had to quickly edit my post, the img links would not show.

    I will give a smoke report within 1-2 weeks, since i dont smoke to often.

    Oh, and i forgot to add. The tin labels are only messed up since i wanted to check behind them.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  34. hawky454

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    Hawky, it's NOT the same blend

    How do you know it is not the same blend? First of all the pictures posted wasn’t even the tobaccos in question, the poster even stated that he doesn’t own a camera. Second, your just a spectator in this so how could you possibly know that it’s not the same blend? (by the way, he still hasn’t smoked it as of this post). Third, if it is in fact a different blend, talk to the supplier and I guarantee that they’ll make it right. I had that happen with SPC Plum Pudding, I bought an 8 oz tin to age, opened it 7 years later and it turned out to be Mississippi River. I contacted SPC and they immediately sent me out a fresh 8oz tin of PP. since that can’t be done with Gawith since it’s all out of stock, I’m sure where ever he purchased it from would be happy to give him credit for it, however, I don’t believe that it’s a different blend, I think y’all are just over thinking things but if it is, shit happens man.

    Edit* looking at the pictures directly above this post, I do not, for the life of me see what the complaint is. It’s a natural product, you are always going to have variations. These new pictures are nowhere near the extreme differences that were implied in the original pictures posted. Looks like SJF to me!

    Posted 1 month ago #
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    heyeveryone

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    Not sure i should ignore some of you or not.. I thought this was a pipesmoking forum with laidback people.. Take a chill pill for crying out loud.

    I am not complaining about anything, im just stating facts that i for the moment know (they can change).

    And as of now, they are not the same.. In the sence that this duck doesnt qwack like a duck, not walking like a duck and sure dont look like a duck. They might taste the same, who knows, thats what im going to find out soon.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  36. smokeyweb

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    Smoke and advise, bro!

    Posted 1 month ago #
  37. steamboat

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    Well, since this thread got brought back, i will just like to give an update, since the batch in the OP is almost a year old, and i still have about 4 ounces of it. It got much darker in color in that year, and its def majorly different, then prior aged 1792. I am not saying its worst, just different. The texture is completely different, and the tonkin in it, is almost undetectable.

    The long flakes breaks down into fine ribbons with little effort. It is closer to flavor of Old Dark Fired rather then 1792, which is fine. I have not been able to attain another box in the 9 months, to compare to that box, due to the B.S. of nothing being in stock this year. I missed out on previous drop. Its totally possible that i got a lower quality box of 1792 then others, since others report no dramatic changes in flavor.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  38. hiplainsdrifter

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    Second, your just a spectator in this so how could you possibly know that it’s not the same blend?

    Because I am talking about MY experience with tobacco that I purchased. I returned my Golden Glow (?) labeled as BBF to the dealer and they agree with me, saying that "definitely isn't" BBF. This discussion is very on topic and relevant. You already made it clear that you don't care about consistency.

    Posted 1 month ago #

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