Sabbatical Thoughts 2 - The Thorny Issue of Tongue Bite (long but less rambling)

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flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
Rather than indulging in necrophilia I've started a new thread on a subject which has been much on my mind over the past three months. Those not prone to tongue bite should consider themselves very lucky. Those who are have probably learned ways of mitigating or even averting it. I am prone to this affliction and since I’ve recently been getting through around nine bowls a day I have developed some theories about its mechanism and considered the ways I have found to lessen its impact. I would be very interested to hear the thoughts of others.
The Mechanism? – The pain in a bad attack seems similar to that of hot chilli pepper the mouth, but of course pipe smoke does not have capsaicin (substance P – the inflammatory ingredient of chillies which stimulates the nerves in the mouth). It is also different because repeat doses of chilli cause less nerve stimulation (desensitisation) whereas continued pipe smoking makes tongue bite worse. Further you may have found that a mouthful of sugar immediately alleviates a severe chilli burn, at least temporarily, but this does not work for severe tongue bite.

There are many potentially damaging agents in tobacco smoke, but I don’t think nicotine itself is a factor since my brown ropes which have +++ nicotine cause me no trouble. I suspect the main culprits are oxidants (which pipe smoke contains in great abundance) and certain tar products (perhaps explaining why some tobaccos are more likely than others to cause tongue bite) which stimulate pain fibres in the tongue and mouth. The other reason for the oxidant theory is that red wine (not white!), port and tea in my experience have an alleviating effect – they are all rich in antioxidants.
The Bit/Button – This is crucial:

- The pinhole button of old clay pipes are brutal.

- The round button on old Barings are not much better, which is why mine get smoked only monthly.

- I think the Peterson P-lip was introduced more than a century ago specifically to direct the smoke away from the tongue and towards the hard palate.

- Similarly the fish-tail bit was introduced to spread out the smoke, as opposed to the focussing effect of the clays.
The Tobacco Blend – Many pipers find that various blends affect them differently, which weakens the oxidant theory somewhat. I find ‘bright’ VAs to be the worst in this regard, but once tongue bite has set in almost any blend will exacerbate it.
Anti-Tongue Bite Strategies –

- Give up pipe smoking (I would rather cut off my left testicle with a blunt penknife!)

- Take a break for a few days (in severe cases this may be necessary, but avoidance tactics are preferable)

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,747
45,289
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Virginia bright hits my mouth like napalm. Since my natural inclination is toward the "S" in the "S&M" equation, I avoid Virginia bright to the fullest extent possible. The "M"s are welcome to it.

I smoke milder blends of burly and cavendish, as well as some of the lighter and medium weight latakia and oriental blends. Nothing with Virginia bright.

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
@sable, same with me,but it seems you've got it worse. I usually start the day with a couple of VAs and a P-lip then avoid VAs for the rest of the day.

 

pruss

Lifer
Feb 6, 2013
3,558
370
Mytown
My predilection for latakia forward blends and oriental blends combined with the infrequency of my smoking means that I don't worry about tongue bite too much. There are, however, occasions where I will smoke multiple bowls in a day, and will change up tobacco types and explore different varieties in back-to-back bowls. In these situations tongue bite can be a problem.
I find that taking a short break, with food and drink, between bowls is helpful in minimizing bite. As is having a beverage with some palate cleansing properties. I drink coffee and tea pretty much continuously, and like to pair my beverage at hand with the tobacco in the bowl. Failing choice, I'm happy with a nice glass of water.
I'm also a clencher who doesn't move the pipe around too much. It almost always is hanging out of the right side of my mouth firmly clenched between my canines and premolars. This doesn't help much with regards to bite, as it isolates the part of my tongue getting hit by smoke.
I agree, that light and bright Virginias tend to hit me hardest, as do reds. I seem to find blends like Vintage Syrian, Margate and Oriental #40 some of the easiest to smoke with limited risk of bite. I'm not a storied enough smoker to tell you why, but they're working for me.
Nice topic Flaky, I don't recommend the inguinal orchiectomy with a dull knife... or quitting pipe smoking. I may be a coffee guy, but even I know that doesn't sound like a smart medical decision.
-- Pat

 

saltedplug

Lifer
Aug 20, 2013
5,194
5,100
Tongue bite, which is due to a chemical reaction, describes only part of the discomfort in the mouth caused by pipe smoking. The other part is a scorched tongue, particularly at the point where the bit rests, and general inflammation of the oral tissues. The latter is caused by smoking too fast. Finding a cadence of puffing small enough puffs into the mouth is one of pipe smoking's most difficult tasks. By nature we love to suck, and it is almost axiomatic that we want to suck more rather than less smoke; afterall, the larger the amount of smoke, the more vivid the taste.
I have an uneasy truce with my mouth whose tissues are chronically sore. As long as I smoke slowly I'm good, but doing so requires keeping part of my attention on my cadence, and that waxes and wanes. But I'm s l o w l y improving.

 
We've had many similar discussions, to where I surmised with the vast knowledge conveyed and a little of my own conjecture that it is an acidity issue. We tend to keep a natural culture in our mouths with a balance of microbes that maintain a specific PH balance. Virginias being acidic, burleys on the base end of the spectrum. If you acclimate your mouth to Virginias and VaPers, you'll eventually be able to maintain a low PH, where the acidity doesn't bother the smoker, and the nicotine (of which there is less in Virginas) is more easily absorbed. Burley forward blends are more base (making the higher nicotine level more moot, because it doesn't absorb as well).
If you switch frequently between the two leaves, your mouth never acclimates, making an acid burn more prevalent. Some people acclimate more readily to each, and some never reach a low PH, making Virginia forward blends more infamous.
Me, I have slowly acclimated myself to Virginias, so that if I smoke an aro, I tend to get bite a little more easy. I also get bitten from latakia more easily. However, if I don't smoke for a few days, these issues recede a little, and I can enjoy a burley. But, I tend to have to readjust to the Virginias a little.
Acclimating to Virginias, my solution to ease the process, is to avoid sodas and enjoy a fruit juice to wash the palate, and don't overdo it. Fruit juices tend to help me. I hope it helps for others else as well. Also, Biotene!! Good stuff!!

 

pruss

Lifer
Feb 6, 2013
3,558
370
Mytown
Hey Cosmic, following your hypothesis, would I be taking to grand a leap if I posited that folks whose diet tends to be more acidic (coffee, tea and wine drinkers, folks who get their protein from meat) might be less prone to tongue bite as a result of acclimation to acids through food and drink they ingest?
-- Pat

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
@comicfolklore, that's very interesting.I confess I hadn't considered mouth pH. I don't drink fruit juice when I smoke, but have certainly noticed that dry white wine (quite acid) is an exacerbating factor. I'm less sure about acclimatising to a particular blend, but I will try it with VAs alone when I get home. How long did it take you to acclimatise to VAs?
Thank you for a very helpful response.

 
Sure pruss, this is just a summation of other discussion on here. Not exactly my own research.
For me it takes a few days to acclimate. In that adjustment time I avoid red Virginias. But, once I am acclimated, I try to avoid the base leaves of burley to keep my PH low, and then I can smoke as many reds as I want. I would think white wine would work. I just press a lot of my own juices from my orchard, so that is what I enjoy.
But, every now and then I crave something outside the acidic range, like Molto Dulce, and then it's like starting over, lol.

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
@Cosmic, is it possible that my smoking only small amounts, then increasingly larger amounts of the same blend you are 'desensitising' your mouth to agents specific to that blend, much as we desensitise patients to bee venom, for example? Then when you switch blends, new specific agents set up another response which requires desensitisation?

 

brdavidson

Lifer
Dec 30, 2012
2,017
5
I will second the recommendation of Biotene as part of the solution, it is used in hospitals to help patients with dry mouth and helps keep the mouth at an optimal PH level. I smoke mainly Virginias and Burleys and generally have no issue with tongue bite. I'm a clencher but I do move the pipe around in my mouth quite a bit to avoid developing a "hot spot" in my mouth if you will. I have run out of Biotene in the last two days and haven't remembered to head to the store to pickup more and I do notice a difference in my mouth after smoking a bowl. I almost exclusively drink coffee with my pipe, with the occasional Canadian Iced Tea in the summer months. I have found too that Brigham's maple rock insert definitely helps with blends that tend towards biting.
Not very scientific research but seems to work for me.
Brian

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
@Brian, whatever works is all that really matters! What is 'Biotene' - I don't think we have it on this side of the pond?

 

brdavidson

Lifer
Dec 30, 2012
2,017
5
Flakey its a mouthwash that has no alcohol in it, it is designed to get your mouth to an optimum PH level. I use it after every bowl I smoke and it seems to have really helped my mouth not get "fatigued" from smoking.

 

brdavidson

Lifer
Dec 30, 2012
2,017
5
I get mine at my local pharmacy, however if you go to Amazon you can purchase online and perhaps have it shipped. I will say it made a huge difference in my mouth with regards to enjoying the pipe. I would usually get a sore mouth (not tongue bite, just sore and almost tired) after 2 bowls and then I would have to be smoking something mild for the remainder of the weekend and limit to a bowl a day. After using the biotene I have had as many as 4 bowls in a day with no issues with my mouth (I won't talk about the effect the nicotine had on me, that's for a different thread).

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
Gentlemen, thank you. Bugger the science, I can see a way forward - Biotene from Amazon and desensitisation against bright VAs.
Her Indoors may even kiss me on the mouth now, but that is a trivial matter in comparison!

 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,280
66
Sarasota Florida
flakey, I smoke nothing but Virginia, Vaper and Vabur flakes and have found that anything with Red Virginia's bite the crap out of me. Take this test. Smoke a bowl of one of your worst biting flakes and notice if you are getting a tongue burn like acid hitting your tongue right away. This is what happens when I smoke the reds. I have one blend that has a small amount of Red that I can smoke and it is Solani Silver flake.
I cannot smoke any Virginia from the houses of Rattray or MacClellend as they all burn me bad. I also figured out that even with my no bite flakes if I do not pack them tight enough, after the bowl I will have a tiny amount of bite. I use the cube cut method because I can pack them tighter than anything.
In terms of the stem, I totally agree with you. All of my stems except 1( my Castello) are all hand cut artisan stems and I noticed a huge difference after I bought the first one. I can put 2 of the BJ Long Tapered cleaners through my stem which means they are quite large. In my experience a well cut hand made stem does reduce tongue bite.

 
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