Restaining Question

rockymtnsmoker · Sep 7, 2013

Morning all. Currently working on a resto of a medico bent billiard that requires my first attempt at stripping and staining the briar. The pipe has a glossy/varnished finish over stain. It's been soaking in 99% isopropyl alcohol for about eight ours and the finish does not appear to be coming off. Did I need to sand the glossy finish off before soaking? As always, your collected wisdom and advice will be much appreciated.

captainsousie · Sep 7, 2013

If the finish isn't alcohol based/soluble, that would be my guess, then you need to sand it down first and then put it into the alcohol to pull the stain. Have fun with it.

rockymtnsmoker · Sep 7, 2013

Thanks Cap'n. Think I should let her dry out before sanding or try and wet sand?
Dumb question, as the briar hasn't absorbed any of the alcohol, I just discovered. It just wiped dry.
Thoughts on what grit I should start with to get the finish off?

captainsousie · Sep 7, 2013

Personally, I would let it dry for about 20-30 min if the alcohol percentage is over 90. After that long you should have no problem taking some sandpaper to it. What grit were you planning on?

rockymtnsmoker · Sep 7, 2013

Thanks guys. I was thinking of 400 to start with to remove that lacquer/varnish, and then move up to finer grits, but that sounds like it may be to coarse...

captainsousie · Sep 7, 2013

I'm with pete's suggestion on this one.

rebornbriar · Sep 7, 2013

I would start with 400 to remove the varnish. I think sometimes we get paranoid about too fine a grit.
I was recently speaking with 2 pipe artisans. One finishes their stummels down to 800 and the other finishes at 600!

They say that above that there is no noticeable improvement, as long as you take care with the hand sanding.
If I am refinishing a bowl I use 400, 600 and 800 then a buff with tripoli after the staining.

rebornbriar · Sep 7, 2013

LOL Chiz, I have to say that I was surprised by the pipe makers revelations, assuming myself the need to go to 1500 or 2000, but it does work, so I have stuck with it.

hfearly · Sep 7, 2013

I've always found that beyond 600 as a base for staining the stain just doesn't penetrate as well. The buffing off of the stain happens at 1000+ anyways and gives a nice gloss (tripoli/ diamond). One of these days ill just bite the bucket and hand sand one stumble up to 4000 and see what happens....

hfearly · Sep 7, 2013

Peter, I rough up a pipe stummel to be restained with 400 grit first, possibly wiping it down with acetone (nail polish remover) first, to remove the pre existing stain and clean it up. The I sand to 600, as 400 still leaves many fine scratches that are visible in light even after the final polish. I found that if I go beyond 600 in this step, the bowl becomes really slick and the aniline stain does not penetrate as well - it just sits on the surface and doesn't go down the pores, the ends up staining your fingers every time you touch the bowl for the next 6 months.

rockymtnsmoker · Sep 7, 2013

Great info guys. I think in another post hfearly you suggest that sanding beyond 600 impaired stain absorption and that stuck with me. Just got back from the store with some sandpaper so now it's time to roll up my sleeves and get to work. Thanks for the wise words.

hfearly · Sep 10, 2013

My favorite restaining technique at the moment doesn't involve dye at all, but tanine solution and an iron acetate solution. The two components together turn the wood jet black. You can either leave it like that or buff off with brown tripoli and put on a light top stain for some crazy constrast ;-)

zack24 · Sep 10, 2013

Call me overly cautious...but even though I know acetone evaporates completely, I'm not soaking a porous material like briar in a strong solvent that I'm then going to smoke later. The other problem is that is that people read that advice and take risky jumps in logic- "Hmmm- don't have any acetone, but I do have some MEK, or a little paint stripper- that should do it!". Take the safe way- sand it starting at 400 and move through the grits...and finish off with alcohol (...and the other part- if you're not using an incredibly flammable solvent like acetone, you can actually smoke a pipe while you're sanding your new acquisition.)

rebornbriar · Sep 10, 2013

and finish off with alcohol (...and the other part- if you're not using an incredibly flammable solvent like acetone, you can actually smoke a pipe while you're sanding your new acquisition.)

Is alcohol any less flammable than acetone? I wouldn't smoke around either of them

zack24 · Sep 10, 2013

Huge difference...acetone fumes are heavy, evaporate at a high rate and will light up your world given an ignition source....190 proof Grain Alcohol will not flame unless you stick a match to it...

bentmike · Sep 11, 2013

@ hfearly -That tanine solution and an iron acetate looks amazing. I like dark stains that let just a hint of the wood grain beneath show through.

rockymtnsmoker · Sep 14, 2013

Here's where I netted out on the project guys. Thanks for all the info... and the interesting discussion around alcohol and acetone. Working on another restaining project and like Sam above using acetone to try and preserve the stamping. More on this new project later! Here's the Medico.

Thanks for all the advice. Enjoying this this hobby and the lads (and lasses) who make this forum such a great place to hang out.

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