Replacement Stems, How Much do They Reduce the Value?

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estumpf

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jan 22, 2013
178
0
Does the value of a pipe diminish if the stem is a replacement? I've run across pipes for sale that give that impression. In my book collecting days I ran across this quite regularly, e.g., I was collecting Ian Fleming first edition (English) of the James Bond series. The first book is almost always the most costly in a collection. Ian Fleming's first was Casino Royale. Now in general if you found a nice copy with an almost pristine dust cover, it would go for about $10,000. Same copy without a dust cover, it dropped to $1,000. I always thought that was a bit silly since it is the book, not the dust cover that's important (although the dust cover of the English editions has really great art appeal). So, back to pipes. If you have a major collectible pipe like a Dunhill, Charatan, Barling, etc. and it has the original stem in good shape and sells for $300, what would it be if the only thing different was the stem was a replacement (and here I mean a well done replacement by someone who knows what they are doing and duplicates the white dot on the stem)? I suppose as a sub-set with that is the same pipe with original stem which needs replacement, say broken at the lip, as opposed to a replacement stem. I realize that with some pipes, say a Comoy, the three stage "C" on the stem helps date the pipe, where that might not be as important with another brand. I'm asking this because as I am venturing into the Estate market and especially in auctions, I want some kind of guidance in judging the value of the pipe. Thanks for your wisdom.

 

piperl12

Part of the Furniture Now
Apr 7, 2012
970
4
Good question, I have always wondered the same. So long as the rod used to make the stem in the first place was the same material and the stem maker used exactly the same markings I am not sure how you would even tell. Short of taking material samples and comparing that to aged delrin, or bakelite I am not sure how one would go about discerning the difference. At the end of the day it is plastic with a white plastic spot drilled and glued in. I am interested to hear what the Dunhill,Barling collectors say.

 

mlyvers

Can't Leave
Sep 23, 2012
487
0
I think keeping the pipe as original as possible is your best bet. when it comes to value original is best. I have a charatan supreme s100. I sent it to tim west, he told me he could not replace the stem to the original DC stem. how ever he did replace the stem with a beautiful Lucite stem with the CP stamp. this pipe was made in~ 1957 by hand. I do think that I could get a good price for the pipe if I were to sale it. the original stem was chewed up at the button end. here is a pic of my supreme.
try to keep it as original as possible, in order for the pipe to hold its value.
take care.

mike.

 

mlyvers

Can't Leave
Sep 23, 2012
487
0
I think keeping the pipe as original as possible is your best bet. when it comes to value original is best. I have a charatan supreme s100. I sent it to tim west, he told me he could not replace the stem to the original DC stem. how ever he did replace the stem with a beautiful Lucite stem with the CP stamp. this pipe was made in~ 1957 by hand. I do think that I could get a good price for the pipe if I were to sale it. the original stem was chewed up at the button end. here is a pic of my supreme.
try to keep it as original as possible, in order for the pipe to hold its value.
take care.

mike.

 

numbersix

Lifer
Jul 27, 2012
5,449
53
I am not a collector, but in many cases, the original stem is highly desired; esp in the case of a quality pipe that may have a hand-cut stem, and a logo imprinted on it.
I know myself that I prefer it if only because I may want to sell it someday, and adding "replacement stem" to the description will reduce its value. In lower to mid-range pipes, a replacement stem likely won't affect the smoking qualities or the value by that much, so not as big of an issue.

 

kashmir

Lifer
May 17, 2011
2,712
64
Northern New Jersey
I've got about 30 Comoys now. All three part Cs. A lot of Blue Ribands. I used to worry about the bits. I don't anymore. I just enjoy my pipes. Because I don't plan on reselling any of these. I'm a clencher and go thru about eight bowls a day. When I smoke I use thin surgical tubing to protect the bit. I remove em when I'm done. I use Obsidian oil and my stems show no oxidation. If it rears its ugly green head, I'll use Brebbia stem polish. Black and glossy.

 

numbersix

Lifer
Jul 27, 2012
5,449
53
What I use for approximately true value TO ME -- the replacement stem has to be identical to the original and very well done here -- runs around 40% less than the same pipe with a prefect or close to perfect original stem.
Good post rothnh. From what I've seen on ebay, I was going guess only a 25% reduction, but personally speaking, I agree with rothnh on this one.

 

eaglerico

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
1,134
1
The only experience I have with this issue is with Savinelli Autographs. People who want Autographs want all the nomenclature on the pipe as well as the logo on the stem. Even if it is the original stem but the logo has been worn / buffed off it is a hard sell. To me I feel I am getting a deal but to the collector looking for the special piece for the collection it is a deal breaker.
I have seen several really nice higher graded Autographs with replacement stems go for a fraction of what they would have gone for with the orignal stem.

 

pruss

Lifer
Feb 6, 2013
3,558
370
Mytown
A timely subject. Thanks, estumpf, for posing the question.
I've cleaned up two estates for which I'm going to have stems made. One was snapped in two places through careless handling and careless shipping. The other has been chewed through at the bit (frankly it looks like the previous owner ate his way down the stem from the bit a ways).
It sounds like it might be worth approaching the original manufacturers to quote on having new stems made; if the purpose is to try and hold as much of the inherent value of the pipe as is possible. On the other hand, if I'm trying to be true to the original marks, but am cleaning up estates for personal use, then there's no harm in going to an independent repair person.
The pipe with the chewed bit is a 60's Dunhill which needed to be topped slightly (due to tapping out), I sanded and leveled the top of the bowl, and held the original bowl shape. Since I've already had to alter the pipe, do you guys think it's worth me having Dunhill quote new stem?
Best,
-- Pat

 

doctorthoss

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 6, 2011
618
9
It's not much different from collecting anything -- if some part of the original is damaged or replaced, it loses a lot of value. Comic books are another example. You'd think that the "book" is what matters, but nothing drops the value faster than a damaged cover (even slight damage, such as a bent corner, can drop the value by more than half). Stems on pipes are a big deal. I have a 50-year old Dunhill that would be worth hundreds with the original stem. According to one of our community's most respected vintage brokers, however, it's value with a replacement stem is less than $50.

So yes -- a replacement stem is very, very big deal.

 

topd

Lifer
Mar 23, 2012
1,745
10
Emerson, Arkansas
I may have an alternate view: The reason for "needing" a replacement may be because the original stem may be

beyond it's serviceable life. The answer to your original question, does it affect the value..... Yes! But I

wouldn't leave a chewed-up, bent, broken stem on an unusable pipe.... Do what you have to do......
If you're the buyer.... take that into consideration and value it accordingly.
My Dad had a gun shop after 20 years in the Navy... He wanted a Coke machine for the shop. Saw one in the paper, went

there and two old guys were arguing over the $40.00 price because it had been painted blue. My Dad

walked between them and offered $45.00. Loaded the machine in his truck and drove away. Repainted it red with the original

white logos. All done.....

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,323
11,092
Maryland
postimg.cc
I'd say the quality of the replacement dictates the loss in value. A good quality replacement (made by an independent shop) reduces the total value by 30% or so. I'm curious to hear what Mike G. says, he would know a definitive number. I bought a 1930's Comoys 499 with original stem in January. The Pipe Rack sold the same pipe with a replacement stem for under $200 (Neill Archer Roan bought it). I value mine close to $300.

 

john218

Part of the Furniture Now
May 5, 2012
562
1
Connecticut
Would replacing a broken tenon on a stem, instead of replacing the entire stem have less effect on the loss in value of a pipe? Also would using a vulcanite replace instead of delrin help in maintaining the pipe's value?

I would think it may, but I wonder what everyone else's opinion is.
I ask because I have a Dunhill and a Charatan that were broken during a burglary. Dave at Walker recommended having a new delrin tenon fitted, rather than replacing the stems.

 
Apr 26, 2012
3,352
5,161
Washington State
For me it would depend on whether I'm collecting and selling pipes for monetary gain or collecting pipes for the pure enjoyment of smoking them. Personally I smoke my pipes and don't just let them sit on a pipe rest and use them for decoration. Sure it would be nice to have the original stem; however if the original stem was in non-working order and I really liked the look of the pipe then having a replacement stem is a plus. At least the replacement stem would allow me to smoke the pipe and enjoy it like it was meant to do.

 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,280
66
Sarasota Florida
If I was a collector I would never buy a pipe with a replacement stem because to me the value goes down by at least 60 percent. I am in the market for my birth year Dunhill and I passed on one because of a replacement stem. I want mine to be all original. I am not a collector but if I am buying an artisan pipe, I want it to have the original stem because of the smoking properties that an original will provide. Now if the replacement was done by the artisan, I would not have a problem with it.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,323
11,092
Maryland
postimg.cc
On a "collectible pipe", ie Charatan, Dunhill, etc. if a tenon repair was necessary, I'd rather have a reputable repair shop do a glue-in vulcanite tenon vs. the screw in delrin piece. I've seen some glue-in tenon replacements that are very difficult to detect and a few bad ones... (George Dibos = Master)

 

estumpf

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jan 22, 2013
178
0
I am enjoying the collective wisdom you are sharing. It looks like there are two camps and a few who run to both of them for various reasons. The first camp are the ones who want an estate pipe because they "don't make them like they use to." They have every intention of smoking them and enjoying them. Since it is the pipe and not the stem that gives the smoke its thing, the replacement of a stem is utilitarian. Naturally they would not pay full price for a pipe that had a replacement stem, but they are not going to have their life ruined by it. The second camp are the collectors and their hearts run pure. Best of all is a pipe never smoked, the pure virgin. Anything from "it was smoked only once," to replacement stems, and other horrors, despoils the ideal and probably would not want the skank ruining the reputation of the chosen ones in their collection. I think that is perfectly understandable. Then I suppose the middle ground are those who can live with a good restoration -- I suppose even the pure virgin pipe that sits on the rack for years and finds her stem oxidizing and has a little restoration is no longer "pure." I had a Ben Wade Denmark which I enjoyed very much, but the stem had a crack. After pinching my tongue a couple of times I thought I could live with a replacement stem in order to enjoy the pipe.

 

instymp

Lifer
Jul 30, 2012
2,420
1,029
I can't answer that question as knowledgeable as most here, and don't want to steal your post, but what about repairing the stem? Selfishly, I dought a Dunhill & the white dot isn't there all the way. Can that be fixed? Monitor, if inappropriate, please delete this.

 
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