Recommendation's like dark star and Blackwoods flake please.

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tarheel1

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 16, 2014
936
2
I have been smoking since 98 but from 2005 to now I have been primarily an English smoker. Last year I discovered Va/per blends and this yeah nicer aged pressed Va flakes. I have smoked va's off an on over the years but had problems with a chemical reaction so didn't smoke them often. Lately I have been enjoying Blackwoods flake and Dark Star. As long as I have an acidic drink with sugar and a side of water the reaction has been minimal.
I am now looking for blends along the lines of these two. I loved the aged dark flakes. They are naturally sweet and tasty without the sickly sweet addition of flavoring found in most aros. So lets talk about this and please suggest away.

 

andrew

Lifer
Feb 13, 2013
3,043
402
Try St.James woods, it's supposed to be blackwoods flake with perique added, it's one of my favorites. Also Admirals flake in bulk is supposed to be quite similar to dark star.

 
McClelland is about the only company that makes a single leaf stoved or aged Virginia (that I know of). Try the Matured #22 #25 and #27 in their matured line. They have a bulk stoved Virginia, but I bought a pound of it, and it came so dried and brittle that half was dust by the time I got it into jars, not good.

If another company has something similar, I would love to know. I'd give it a try in a heartbeat. But so far, I think that McClelland has become the master of Virginias, IMO.

 

bigpond

Lifer
Oct 14, 2014
2,019
13
Heavily stoved VA's are pretty easy on the tongue.
Here are a couple of others in the genre:
Red and Black, FVF, Wessex Dark Flake, Butera's Dark Stoved, Dark Fragrant, Black Viriginia,
McClellands' Royal Cajun series has a few options too, as does their bulk line but I have no experience with them.
Red and black has the most in common with what you're smoking and likely use the same leaf stock as both dark star and blackwoods. The rest have little to no unstoved red va's and lean more toward the dark star side of the spectrum.

 
FVF? FVF isn't stoved?

What determines whether a Virginia is golden (bright), red, or brown, is the temperature that it is cured in. The hotter, the darker. Whereas, the matured Virginia, isn't a color cure at all, but continually cured (and usually turned) till black... if the company is doing this naturally. It will also have a natural vinegary smell, unless the company covers it up with a casing or a pressure process making it a flake.

Stoved is where the leaf is cooked again (in a way) sometimes called fire cured by some companies. It results in a darkened (usually hard) leaf. It is similar to heating onions or sugar till the sugars turn brown. It brings out a deeper sweetness and "cooked" flavor.
Red and Black is pretty good, but I was already mixing my Blackwoods with Christmas Cheer, so it wasn't a revelation to me, when I tried it. But, it is a great flake, if you've never played with mixing your Virginias.
Who makes "Black Virginia?"

 

bigpond

Lifer
Oct 14, 2014
2,019
13
FVF must be mentioned in any thread about dark flakes, stoving be damned. It's in the TOS.
Rattray's makes Black Virginia.

http://www.tobaccoreviews.com/blend/950/rattray-black-virginia
Definitely falls in to the old school category. I suspect this is one that has changed substantial from when it was Scotts blended.

 
TOS? Tobacco of Samuel's? Tobacco on sale?
FVF, while very dang good, just isn't as sweet as a stoved Virginia. But, sure mention away.
Astleys 44 is a dark flake, but it just doesn't have that caramelized sweetness to it that those the OP mentioned, but, hey, if we're just plugging things to be plugging them, there we go. Ha ha!!

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
Astleys 44 is a dark flake, but it just doesn't have that caramelized sweetness to it that those the OP mentioned...
Love that stuff, but you're right about the profile, I get more of a toasty thang with it.
I wish that there were more dark flakes on the market.

 

andrew

Lifer
Feb 13, 2013
3,043
402
Are you talking about #5105 cosmic? If so it's more of a mixing tobacco than anything. You should experiment with it.
Also Butera's dark stoved would fit into the OP's recommendation requests.

 
Thanks Andy, yes the mixer stoved. I still have the dust, and I do mix my Virginias occasionally for different depths of flavor. I would encourage anyone to try it. Adding a stoved to a red really sweetens the pot, so to speak.

And, I will need to get me some of that Buteras. I wonder who makes this for him.

 

bigpond

Lifer
Oct 14, 2014
2,019
13
? Doesn't seem dark to me.
Hmm...Well, matter of opinion I guess. I lump FVF, WCDF and Stonehaven in the dark flake category.
McClelland's still blends the Butera line and there is a family resemblance in dark star and dark stoved.

 
there is a family resemblance in dark star and dark stoved

This is why I am anxious to try the Butera. But, I cannot believe that it is too similar, or people would be complaining about how hard it is to smoke, as they do Dark Star. But... I'll see.
Well, matter of opinion I guess. I lump FVF, WCDF and Stonehaven in the dark flake category

I've only had WCDF once a while back, so, I cannot speak to it. But, if FVF and Stonehaven are similar to you, then I guess I understand why you lumped FVF in with dark stoved tobaccos. FVF is a pressed range of yellow, red, and a tad bit of brown Virginias. Best Brown is a deeper darker blend with more of the brown Virginias in the mix, but still neither of these are stoved. But, I see where you got that. Stonehaven is a totally different animal, a heavily cased VaBur.
It's all in the process, cure, stove, pressed. It's like eggs, stoving is just a process of preparing the tobaccos for consumption, like frying, verses poaching, scrambled, or even an omelette.

If you like to explore the way the process sweetens the Virginias, try some of the McClelland Blakeney's processed line. It's a toasting process instead of a stoving. It has a dryer taste, but the sweetness is there, not as caramel-ly, but worth giving a shot, especially if you are interested in the way the Virginias are cooked and the way it influenced the subtle nuances of flavor. I have a friend who only smokes the Blakeney's blends. It is a little talked about McClelland, like a nice little secret small line of tobaccos. Tawney Flake and Acadian Ribbons are my favorites in this line. But, not a stoved as the OP requested.

 

krizzose

Lifer
Feb 13, 2013
3,126
18,182
Michigan
For something similar but just a bit less heavy, try McClelland Navy Cavendish. Don't let the word "cavendish" scare you away; it's a Va flake

 

andrew

Lifer
Feb 13, 2013
3,043
402
McClellands' Royal Cajun series has a few options too, as does their bulk line but I have no experience with them.

Royal Cajun really isn't at all like dark star or blackwoods flake. I've had the dark and the special, and they're very good, the special is smoother, the dark is a bit more robust, and it has an tad smokey flavor from the processing they use, almost like a bit of latakia but different, it's a smokier flavor than latakia but with no leathery or earthy flavor.

 
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