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mawnansmiff

mawnansmiff

Lifer
Oct 14, 2015
7,416
7,339
Sunny Cornwall, UK.
On a recent thread I gave some accounts of pipesmoking in Elizabethan England (1558 - 1603) and the following detail puzzled me...
"the powder is lit in a small pipe. The smoke is sucked into the mouth,"
...would the tobacco really have been powdered?
Then yesterday whilst reading Nathaniel Philbrick's excellent book 'Mayflower' about the Plymouth Pilgrims I came upon the following excerpt dating from 1602 attributed to British explorer Bartholomew Gosnold relating to a first meeting with Native Indians and the gift exchanging ceremony that often accompanied such events...
"For their part, Gosnold and his men took an immediate fancy to the Indian's tobacco, a dried green powder that when smoked in carefully crafted clay pipes proved addictively pleasant".
So there we have two events taking place at roughly the same time though thousands of miles apart, both mentioning 'powdered tobacco'. Is it likely that the 'cut' was indeed so fine as to be regarded as powder? Interesting to note too was that the tobacco of the Native Indians was green so presumably freshly harvested.
From Nathan Bailey's dictionary around 100 years later we have...
'Powder: Any Thing that is ground or beat very small'.
Does anyone have any insights into tobacco preparation and use from such early times? If so I would be delighted if they could be shared.
Regards,
Jay.

 
bluegrassbrian

bluegrassbrian

Your Mom's Favorite Pipe Smoker
Aug 27, 2016
6,076
53,295
41
Louisville
It's possible that contemporary terminology hadn't been developed yet, so as to accurately describe cut tobacco whether ribbon, shag, long cut, what have you.

So in this instance I'd think it were the best quick description of a very new substance.

Perhaps the Indians used a mortar to combine tobacco with herbs, rendering it very ground up.

I'm hard pressed to think either instance was describing anything close to snuff though.

 
cosmicfolklore

cosmicfolklore

Lifer
Aug 9, 2013
33,973
75,648
Between the Heart of Alabama and Hot Springs NC
You guys are thinking in terms of contemporary pipes, but if you go to a museum and see some of the designs of pre-Colombian pipes, some have tall narrow bowls, like would hold a quarter of a cigarette, and taking the smoke deep into the lungs was a part of some mentioned ceremonies. I could see powdering some kinickkinnick Mixture of dried berries, fruits, tobaccos, and other herbal drugs and smoking them in one of those huge, long pipes with their tiny bowls. The Japanese had kiserus with very,very fine cut tobaccos. And, in the Balkans, they had unusually small bowls with very, very fine cut tobacco.

 
fluffie666

fluffie666

Can't Leave
Apr 4, 2014
497
5
Native Americans made a mixture of tobacco and herbs. It was (and probably still is) called knick knick. Different tribes had their own recipes. Herbs were added to the tobacco according to their medicinal / spiritual properties and what the mixture would be used for. Healing, ceremony, prayer, etc. A lot of mixtures contained no tobacco at all. Only herbs. Maybe the "addicively pleasant" aspect came from some peyote mixed in there. In Native American culture, pipe smoking is considered to be a connection to The Great Spirit.

 
P

pipeman7

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jan 21, 2017
291
0
I've def read some historical accounts of Indians powdering their tobacco and smoking

 
jpmcwjr

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,708
27,308
Carmel Valley, CA
Before mylar bags and such, before rope and plug tobacco, I imagine it was very hard to not have even an uncured leaf dry out and crumble into tiny particles, or dust, or powder... But a fascinating topic.

 
mawnansmiff

mawnansmiff

Lifer
Oct 14, 2015
7,416
7,339
Sunny Cornwall, UK.
Some excellent ideas being thrown about here which is great. I don't doubt Native Indian tobacco was a mixture of tobacco and herbs, bark and even fungi but what of what was smoked in Europe in the period?
From what I can gather that was straight tobacco yet still described as being in powdered form, so perhaps it arrived in dock in bushels of pure leaf only to be minced or shredded and perhaps ground up afore distribution?
John, your comment makes a lot of sense actually. Once out of the tobacconist's fancy Delft jar it was a case of smoke it quick else it will dry right out.
Maybe Pitchfork can enlighten us as he studies this period of history, or rather a little later.
Does anyone have any pictures of these early pipes they might be willing to share?
Regards,
Jay.

 
mortonbriar

mortonbriar

Lifer
Oct 25, 2013
2,676
5,722
New Zealand
Years ago when a friend of mine grew a tobacco plant without any knowledge around the curing process, he brought over a leaf that was so dry it crumpled into powder in the hand, we attempted to smoke it and gained an immediate respect for the art of curing ha.
Isaac

 
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