Pipe Off To Norwood's for New Stem

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mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,454
I received a handsome freehand "Thompson" pipe for Christmas, nice piece of briar with conspicuous grain. It had an old Vulcanite stem/bit with a distinctive sort of P-lip bit. I polished it rigorously by hand and gave it a light treatment with Brebbia polish. However, one smoke made the bit turn gritty with oxidation -- just an old Vulcanite vulnerable to this, I think. So off it went to Norwood's Pipe Repair in Tennessee for a new slightly bent tortoise shell lucite shank with a fishtail bit. Norwood's has been recommended many times in Forums. This pipe is stamped Thompson, but also West Germany, so it is pre-reunification of Germany, and maybe somewhat older than that. I'd guess at least 1970's. I believe this is a house pipe made for Thompson's Cigars founded in 1915 in Key West, currently located in Tampa. This is a good pipe with good draw and not heavy for its considerable heft. I'll report back when the job is complete.

 

codecreatively

Can't Leave
Sep 17, 2014
329
2
From experience, Norwood's isn't what it used to be since Kenneth took over. Hope everything turns out well and you get a good stem out of it.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,454
I'll hope for the best. Emailed my go-to carver, who also does pipe repairs, but didn't hear back for five or six days, and didn't want to pester him. He's a very independent guy. So I hope Norwood's can make good. This is a very basic assignment, so if they can't get it done on a reasonable schedule, I'll be greatly disappointed. Not like I'm asking them to repair a rare pipe by a famous carver. I'll report however it goes. Norwood's in the spotlight now! Kenneth, it's your chance to shine.
Any recommendations for future reference from anyone?

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,454
Still haven't heard back from my go-to carver, so I guess I feel okay about going ahead to Norwood's, and hope the "next generation" does well by me. This is a nifty pipe from a serious pipe appreciator, so I want to do well by it. I guess Walker is next in line for pipe repair, but I think Norwood's may do well. We'll see. I just sent the pipe with complete instructions to the address on Norwood's Pipe Repair's web site. Do they phone or email with a final tab? I'm willing to wait for my check to clear rather than use the card, if they'll accept that. I think it should be about $22 with shipping, or they'll phone if there is any extras needed. The briar is solid as a ship. I gave 'em all my contact info, so they can email, phone, or snail mail.

 

codecreatively

Can't Leave
Sep 17, 2014
329
2
I had only read good things also. He's fast, there's no question about it. It's the quality of the workmanship and materials that wasn't good, but it was inexpensive too so there's that.
I sent off a 1970 Dunhill bulldog to have a sagging stem repaired. He clamped onto if with a pair of pliers and snapped it off. Deep gouges by the pliers even if it didn't snap. The replacement stem was from a blank with holes in it. I only found out that the stem was replaced after asking for a summary of the work done when they called for payment. Ended up sending the pipe back at my expense and he fixed it, but this whole mess could have been avoided if he took some care and time with the original stem. I would have rather paid more for careful work.
I also requested a stem for an old 1940s Peterson system in the same order, and sent the bowl along. Got a used stem crusted with old tobacco juice for that one. Just not good business.
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lawmax3

Can't Leave
Jan 18, 2013
405
12
Good Luck!

They ruined a good Dunhill patent era stem for me (it was a diamond shaped stem).

Sent it to them due to oxidation. They got rid of the oxidation alright by over buffing the stem until the sharp edges of the stem were no more. Made me sick. Never again!

 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
5,529
14,176
Seems like a good time for some "industry background": :puffy:
Until relatively recently in the US, pipes were considered a consumable item.  An object with a limited lifespan. In addition, they were made from components that didn't age at the same rate. In the same way shoes had their soles replaced several times before the uppers wore out, and a new car would have several sets of tires over its life, a pipe was expected to have its stem replaced a time or two before it was "used up" and thrown away.
Remember: So-called "estate" pipes simply didn't exist until the 1980's, and pipes---with the exception of a handful of higher grade Charatans & etc, cased sets, and presentation pieces---weren't purchased with the intention of keeping them all that long.  Pipes were thought of simply as "tobacco access devices" by the vast majority of smokers.  Once a pipe reached a certain point, it was thrown away and a new one bought to replace it.  Only if an old pipe was special enough that a smoker wanted to extend its life, or a new-ish one was damaged, was it repaired.  
And those repairs were made in the same spirit as the original pipe.  Any passably decent looking return to functionality was considered a "good fix."  And arranging that fix was no more difficult than taking the pipe to any walk-in tobacco shop, of which there were many.  (If they didn't have a repairman in the back, they sent batches of pipes a couple times a week to another shop nearby that did.)
No one expected such repairs to be "invisibly good" because they understood that pipes were factory made, and repairs could only be done by hand.  And while such fine handwork was POSSIBLE, pipes were inexpensive, so there was no demand for it.
Fast forward to the Internet, Scandinavian quality standards, artisan masterpieces, and hardcore collectors of so-called "estate" pipes in addition to contemporary art pieces.  Those smokers---today's smokers---DON'T think of pipes as consumables, and have high technical and artistic expectations for repair work.  But, being consumers, they are delighted that pipe repair's cost structure was previously based on mass-produced inexpensive pipes and "you can't tell if you squint hard enough" craftsmanship.
Delighted until the new expectations + old price structure finishes driving the remaining handful of pipe repairmen out of business, anyway.  

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,454
This doesn't sound good. I hope the old guy is helping his son out. Sounds bleak. We'll see. Wish I'd consulted before I sent it. Earlier reports had been so positive. When repairs are done well, they are so good, it's almost better than a new pipe. Hate to go the other route. Still hoping for the best.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,454
georged, interesting take. I think you have the story about right. I observed my dad, a chain Granger pipe smoker. He'd smoke one pipe continuously, no rotation, burn it out, and buy another at a drugstore or newsstand. Never had one repaired. Nonetheless, I would think even with this disparity in price structure and labor cost, maybe a push-bit stem replacement should be one of the easy fixes. It happens this pipe of mine doesn't have to be carved to the shank. As long as the tenon is the right size, it just pushes in. So an attractive repair should be relatively simple if the repairman has skill and sufficient experience. I'm glad I'm not trying this with one of my old faithfuls or personal treasures. But it's a nice pipe, and should be good with a serviceable well-fitting stem.

 

cally454

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 31, 2012
205
0
If you hang out your shingle as a repairman I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to think you won't ruin thier dunhill. If you can't do the repair admit it and don't try. I gladly pay premium money to have my pipes fixed right. It's not the consumers fault the pricing is low most companies go out if business for charging too little. Another big reason is poor quality.

 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
5,529
14,176
If you hang out your shingle as a repairman I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to think you won't ruin thier dunhill. If you can't do the repair admit it and don't try. I gladly pay premium money to have my pipes fixed right. It's not the consumers fault the pricing is low most companies go out if business for charging too little. Another big reason is poor quality.
I agree completely. Sorry if I gave any other impression with my previous post. Good work was assumed. Without it, nothing else matters or will ever work out for anybody on either side.
That said, it's an interesting question how many repair guys COULD do reliably good work if they weren't trying to "beat the clock", and how many couldn't manage it regardless of time spent.

 

codecreatively

Can't Leave
Sep 17, 2014
329
2
Totally and completely agree. Given the option of destroying a stem for $60 vs. having it properly fixed for $120, I'll take the $120. That's about the value that was destroyed by replacing the stem in the first place, so you aren't actually saving any money by having a hack do it. It's costing you much more in terms of value.

 

theloniousmonkfish

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 1, 2017
943
497
For the money that is ridiculous, man. Honestly, hate to talk about others unless they're around to defend themselves but damn. Taken care of stem problems like yours and can't imagine how it resulted in a replacement but I take my time and don't advertise so there's less inclination to rush through anything just to get it shipped out. Everybody has bad days but that shouldn't have left like that, and the stem on that Ardor Peteguy linked to, man, how did that thing get approved to send back???
I'm sure for the average 20-50 dollar pipe anywhere that's cheap with quick turnover is fine but if you have something special, or special to you, find someone that will take the same consideration with it as you would. Which means more wait time and it will likely cost more, that or start doing the work yourself which also costs money, takes time and has something of a learning curve.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,454
Peteguy, I posted on that earlier thread you had about Norwood's, but I guess I remembered earlier positive input from others. Tracked my pipe in the USPS just now, and it has arrived in Tennessee, so I am hoping that things will work out. This is not an expensive pipe, so that is reassuring, and if the stem is replaced well, and the stem is reasonable quality, it may be a sign that things are improving. If not, I guess my next repair goes to Walker. I really wanted my home-state carver, because I like the stems he puts on his pipes a lot, but he's just hard to contact. Frankly, reviewing georged's post, it is difficult to see how people make money on repairs. Seems like they'd be working for near minimum wage, and that's not the pay grade of an accomplished craftsperson. But if they raise prices significantly, many would simply buy a new pipe. You'd have some high-end repairs, but the volume would decline, so it might be the same problem with no revenue stream. The other road would be to track down a pre-cut stem in a suitable size, bend it gently with heat, and try to do this myself. May do that eventually, though time is tight.

 

peteguy

Lifer
Jan 19, 2012
1,531
908
You want it fast and you want it cheap and dont care what it looks like as long as it smokes then you will be happy with their work. You want factory or better quality and don't care how long it takes or costs then georged and maybe a few others is probably your only options. I just want something in the middle and that seems to be just about as rare as georged at least in my searches. :)

 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
5,529
14,176
You want it fast and you want it cheap and dont care what it looks like as long as it smokes then you will be happy with their work. You want factory or better quality and don't care how long it takes or costs then georged and maybe a few others is probably your only options. I just want something in the middle and that seems to be just about as rare as georged at least in my searches. :)
What you describe has been the case for a while and is getting worse, peteguy. I posted something on this board a couple years ago that tried to explain some of the reasons why.
I'd link to it, but the older threads get here the harder they are to find, so here is a copy from my own computer's files (with a few small edits):
-------------------
In the pipe repair world, the output of repair shops has long been viewed as a consumer commodity in the same way as tires, toasters, or cameras. When buying those items, the only difference is who sells them to you and for how much. The quality of the same make & model item is the same at all retail outlets.
In the artisan pipe making world the output of carvers is unique, though, and each piece is considered individually and priced accordingly.
While the second case is fitting and economically sustainable, the first is not.
There are several reasons why carvers outnumber repairmen by fifty (or more) to one in our hobby, among them being the extensive equipment and inventory requirements. While a carver needs only what's required to create pipes that fulfill a chosen aesthetic, a full-service repairman needs the tools and materials to replicate the work of ALL carvers and brands, both new and old (some go back a century or more), and in every style.
Another reason is the stress of working on someone else's property. It is enormous. There are no "do-overs". Tossing a project into the fireplace when serious mistake is made is not an option.
But the main reason is the commodity pricing structure, especially when it comes to replacement stems. No matter the quality or price of the original pipe, there's an expectation that a new stem for it should cost a fixed, nominal amount.
What pipe repairmen do however, is not the same as being a retailer of tires, toasters, or cameras. They sell labor, not merchandise.
In fact, it's not even equivalent labor. Most pipe makers agree that the stem often takes as much time to shape---sometimes more---than the rest of the pipe. In addition, shaping a replacement stem after the stummel is complete and its shape cannot be further modified requires the stem to be made "in a vacuum" to fit that stummel exactly. Doing that adds to the difficulty considerably and takes additional time. Then, the labor/time demand is (often) increased still again by requiring the replacement to exactly match the original in all dimensions. (The original maker didn't have to follow any pattern or meet any particular set of dimensions... whatever simply "looked right" became the finished product.)  Such dimension matching is both unforgiving and tedious.
For the record, and to be 100% clear, I am emphatically NOT criticizing or trying to minimize what "whole" pipe makers do in any way---being truly good at it is insanely difficult and requires having ALL of MANY uncommon skills rolled into a single person. I know any number of them personally, and respect what they do---and am occasionally in awe of what they do---more every day. That their work and business model is more linear and streamlined isn't something they are responsible for creating, it's simply how things are.
It's the combination of those three main things---high financial barrier to entry, the stress of working on other people's property, and the laborious, unforgiving nature of matching the work of others as opposed to creating it in the first place---that keeps people from entering the repair field (or staying with it for long when they do).
Entire articles have been written about this situation before by highly qualified people, btw. Here's a good one:
http://talbertpipes.blogspot.com/201...pe-repair.html
So, what's my point with all this? It is to take a swing at raising awareness, and thereby, eventually, make the specialty field of pipe repair more attractive to newcomers by encouraging them to adopt a tradesman model of business instead of a fixed-price commodity one. In short, price their work according to time spent instead of by simplified task categories. That's how it has always been for other tradesmen, from plumbers to machinists to welders. Try getting a fixed-price/categorical quote from one of those guys for clearing a blocked drain, machining an antique motorcycle engine part from billet, or repairing a cracked flange on an oil pipeline. Their pricing is, and has always been, based on labor and (when applicable) materials.
I think that such an approach would not only help to attract more repairmen, but, over the long term, would benefit their customers. First, since there would be more of them, turnaround times would improve. Second, because the quality of workman ship varies, after a while skill would correspond with cost. Demand would make it so.
Why would such correspondence be a Good Thing when shopping? Consider the following photos.  Four replacement stems are shown (each in top and side view), with their REDONE (by a different shop) replacement next to them. All eight were sold for very nearly the same price to the same person.
The "I'm unhappy, so will try this again!" situation came about because he figured that since replacement stems cost essentially the same regardless of the shop which supplied them---there's that commodity thing, again---he might as well go with the geographically closest one to save on shipping time and postage.  Had that closest & quickest shop not been able to "hide in the commodity pricing bushes," he might have wondered why shops charged different rates, done some digging, and been spared having to buy a second set of replacements before being satisfied.
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