OK, Why Not A Screw Stem?

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agnosticpipe

Lifer
Nov 3, 2013
3,332
3,413
In the sticks in Mississippi
I was sitting on the porch this morning smoking some latakia flake in an old Kaywoodie. A little over halfway through the bowl, I felt a little gurgle, and ran a pipe cleaner down to the stinger. I also thought, well why not unscrew the stem and do the shank too while I'm at it. The pipe was a little warm, but hey it's a screw stem right?
This got me thinking, why don't more pipe makers use screw stems instead of push stems. Out side of the stinger issue, the main objection seems to be that the screws wear and the stem eventually becomes un-clocked, or crooked. I'm certainly no expert in pipe making, or metallurgy, but wouldn't making a screw stem system out of harder material than aluminum be the answer? Why do pipe makers, both factory and artisanal, never seem to address one of the weakest spots on the pipe? I know in the past, pipe makers came up with all kinds of wacky ideas to make pipes better, both from a construction and smoking standpoint, like the "Adjustomatic" stem. But now it seems to be only about the briar, and the styling. I'm not saying those aren't important though. But why not make a screw stem from stainless? We cook for hours in stainless pots and pans, and few use aluminum unless it's anodized, or teflon coated because of the way it reacts sometimes to acids. Both titanium and tungsten are plenty hard, but I'm sure they would be much more difficult to machine than stainless.
I know that some smokers like to turn their stem a little to one side or the other to keep the bowl upright when clenched in the mouth. Why not put a tiny set screw in the middle of the stem logo so as to be able to adjust this on a screw stem. I like the ability to remove the stem easily and safely for moisture issues and cleaning pretty regularly. I would certainly pay more for a properly designed screw stem in a pipe, than for just some fancy trim work.
These are just some random thoughts I was having this morning, and maybe it'll just be viewed as some kind of nonsense. I know the saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". But sometimes it is broke, or maybe just cracked, and nobody wants that. Hopefully someone in the industry, or with experience in pipe making, or even metallurgy will have something to say about this, either good or bad.

 

papipeguy

Lifer
Jul 31, 2010
15,778
35
Bethlehem, Pa.
Jobey's are screw stems. The neat thing about them is that the tenon cannot be over tightened and can be easily replaced if need be. For an inexpensive pipe it's quite innovative.

 
I think that the biggest issue is that so many guys don't want any metals at all on their pipes, for aesthetic reasons.
The few screw-in stems that I have, you can clock the stem by turning clockwise, and straighten it out the same way.
But, for my all time favorite connections is the vulcanite on silver military stems. Whether it is silver on the stem fitting into a vulcanite seat, or a vulcanite stem into a silver seat. I just think it looks classy, and the fit is wonderful.
Titanium and tungsten would be a nightmare to machine out. However, I am not sure what we don't use stainless steel. I am guessing that the cost of producing aluminum is cheaper, plus it is not as heat conductive. However, they freely shove stainless tubes down the middle of those bamboo shanks. I'll bet on it being cheaper, since I've never seen an expensive pipe with a screw in stem.

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,700
16,209
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
Two of my meers are threaded, no metal involved. The inside of the stem is coarsely threaded and receives a soft, nylon? insert which is threaded inside also. The bit has a threaded insert,nylon?, which screws into the pipe. All very cumbersome when cleaning the pipe. The insert into the stem has sufficient play and friction to allow finite adjustment of the bit so that the desired relationship of bowl to and bit can correctly aligned when either of the inserts (pipe or bit) shift when installed. Again, all very cumbersome. Still, it does work.

 

agnosticpipe

Lifer
Nov 3, 2013
3,332
3,413
In the sticks in Mississippi
A couple of more thoughts: I don't think I've ever seen a pipe made where the metal screw on the stem screws directly into the briar. There's always a metal fitting on the shank of the pipe that it screws into. I also have an old Linkmans Dr. Grabow that has the metal fitting on the shank inset into the shank so that no metal is visible from the outside.

I was also thinking that some bent pipe shapes no matter how well made have difficulty passing a cleaner through to the bowl. Many smokers don't feel the need to take their pipes apart regularly, and I don't do that to mine either. But there are times I like to do that to keep them smoking nice and not get sour or stinky. That is one thing I like about Peterson system pipes, they are easy to take apart and clean, which I feel they need given the moisture reservoir in the bowl.
I know a lot of pipes have one orientation of the stem, but some allow for some movement with no visual difference. I happen to like to keep the bowl upright if I can when smoking. It's all personal preference I guess.
If the difference in expansion between metals and other materials was a huge problem, it seems that there would be very few surviving pipes today, like Kaywoodies, with these metal fittings.
I'm not try to push for a change in pipe making here, just wanted to know why screw stems aren't in more use today.

 

ejames

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
3,916
22
I also have an old Linkmans Dr. Grabow that has the metal fitting on the shank inset into the shank so that no metal is visible from the outside.
The very first Linkman Grabows,while the tenon was made from threaded aluminum, there was no metal in the shank. The threads were cut directly into the wood.Not many were made like that. Some of the later Grabows with Ajustomatic stems are made with no metal showing. I'm smoking a Golden Duke at the moment that doesn't.
I have made three pipes with screw stems,using the threaded parts swiped from a Grabow Ajustos. One was a commission,another I made for myself and the other(which was the first) a friend bought.

If memory serves,seems even Dunhill made a screw stem at one time.

 

torque

Can't Leave
May 21, 2013
444
2
I have a couple of older pipes that have aluminum screw tenons but the threads are cut into the shank wood. From a wear and tear standpoint it worries me but at the same time there isn't a metal ferrel that can shift so they are perfectly timed.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
Unfortunately, many Kaywoodie Drinkless pipes are sent out so that the bit doesn't square up

when the stem is screwed in fully. As mentioned in an early post, Jobey, which is not an expensive

pipe, has screw-in stems that mostly work quite well. I just smoked mine last night, and appreciated

that feature. Note, Kaywoodie does make push bit pipes. They are inexpensive pipes but smoke well.

I don't know why they can't get their Drinkless pipe right.

 
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jmill208

Lifer
Dec 8, 2013
1,087
1,163
Maryland USA
With limited experience, my 2 cents: I have a Kaywoodie Drinkless pipe that I almost never smoke because of the loose / out of square stem. It screws in, but doesn't actually tighten. It always has that feel like it is just going to fall apart.
It spends so much time in the rack, i have to dust it off when I do decide to give it a go. :?

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
jmil20, sorry to hear that. At least my Kaywoodie Drinkless screws in tight, and in position I can

smoke it with no problem. But why not screw in perpendicular to the bowl? Yours sounds useless.

I'd send it back to Kaywoodie and ask for a replacement, maybe a Saxon with a push bit that you

might actually smoke.

 

rcstan

Lifer
Mar 7, 2012
1,466
8
Sunset Beach NC
Cost, obviously, plus there's that accursed gap between the end of the insert and the end of the mortise that collects all sorts of crap if not religiously cleaned......

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,632
44,860
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
A couple of more thoughts: I don't think I've ever seen a pipe made where the metal screw on the stem screws directly into the briar. There's always a metal fitting on the shank of the pipe that it screws into.
Correct, with Ejames exceptions noted.
19th century and very early 20th century pipes used a threaded screw joint with the screw-in tenon often made of bone. I have an 1896 Barling billiard that uses this form of joinery. My 1883 Barling uses a sterling silver screw to hold the stem to the shank. It screws into a sterling fitment on the end of the shank. The problem was that the common bone screw tenon was a very delicate construction, prone to snapping if the user wasn't careful. In the early 20th century the friction mortise/tenon join came into use. Barling was an early adopter and switched to this form of joinery before most of the other makers.
Kaywoodies that have become unclocked can be restored to proper line up. The collar into which the stinger screws, is itself glued into an outer metal collar that is threaded into the wood. The glue can be heated, allowing the inner collar to be rotated into alignment.

 

wcannoy

Can't Leave
Nov 29, 2012
344
4
Lakeland, FL
agnosticpipe said:
Out side of the stinger issue, the main objection seems to be that the screws wear and the stem eventually becomes un-clocked, or crooked. I'm certainly no expert in pipe making, or metallurgy, but wouldn't making a screw stem system out of harder material than aluminum be the answer? Why do pipe makers, both factory and artisanal, never seem to address one of the weakest spots on the pipe?
You've answered your own question in those last few words. Yes, the integrated push tenon is the weakest spot on most pipes, and it should be. I had a customer drop a pipe recently and it sheared the tenon right off. Replacing the tenon is relatively quick, easy, and cheap. if the tenon were stronger, it might have been the stem itself that broke, and a new stem would have to be cut. That's time consuming and expensive. Still, cutting a new stem would make the pipe "good as new". But then again, it might not have been the stem that broke, but maybe the shank would snap right off the bowl! If that happened, surely the pipe would never be the same. The tenon joint being the weakest spot on the pipe is an advantage, not a disadvantage!
I don't mind having metal on the exterior of my pipes, but I would never use metal on the inside, as part of the airway. The higher density of metal, relative to the other materials in the airway, makes for a point of easier heat exchange between the smoke and the airway, and becomes a point where condensation is most likely to occur. In an otherwise properly engineered and drilled airway, just the inclusion of a metal piece will increase the chances of gurgle!
Another thing to consider is that an integrated push tenon creates only one joint, one potential break or disruption in the airway. A Delrin, or other non-integrated push tenon creates two joints in the airway. A threaded metal tenon with a threaded metal mortise creates at least three joints, three potential disruptions in the airway where turbulence can be created leading to increased condensation and, you guessed it, gurgling!
"Golly gee mister, I can buy the weakest spot/breaking point explanation, but why should I be concerned about gurgling? It's nothing more than a minor annoyance, right?"... Well little Bobby, if your pipe is gurgling, that means you're missing out of much of that fine tobacco flavor! See, much of the taste you get from your pipe is from the moisture carried in the smoke. If the moisture is being trapped inside of your pipe, then you're not getting all the true flavor from that hard earned bowl of tobacco.
Agnosticpipe, trust me, we pipemakers have thought of these things. We know what we're doing! :D

 

numbersix

Lifer
Jul 27, 2012
5,449
53
Nice to hear Walt's thoughts on this. My gripe with threaded tenons is that the button will eventually be off centered after many twists.

 

agnosticpipe

Lifer
Nov 3, 2013
3,332
3,413
In the sticks in Mississippi
Thanks for your comments Walt! This is what I wanted to hear. An explanation from someone who's in the industry, and knows the ins and outs of pipe making. I only wanted to know why screw stems were so uncommon today, when they seemed on the surface like a good idea. I do notice that I experience a gurgle more often with the few stinger type stemmed pipes that I have, but because they're older pipes I can't bring myself to cut them off. I just enjoy the history they represent.

One of these days maybe I'll be in a position to purchase one of your wonderful "Suede" sandblast pipes. They are outstanding looking and obviously well designed.

I'm a fan! :worship:

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,323
11,093
Maryland
postimg.cc
Unfortunately, most of the metal things used by pipemakers over the decades to cut down on moisture only seemed to increase the moisture level and hasten condensation. I have learned if you patiently smoke a Kaywoodie with a stinger (mine are all 4 hole), you will be rewarded with a dry and great smoke. The screw-in stem is an idea past its prime I suspect.

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
One of my favorite pipes has a screw-in tenon, a 30's BBB.

It smokes incredibly from top to bottom and enhances tobacco flavor, it is like magic, I dunno if it's just good briar or chamber geometry or what. It's a small petite thing and it always seems to smoke dry, perhaps because there ain't no gap really, and I love it...it's a Hesson patent design,

https://www.google.com/patents/US1566866?dq=ininventor:%22Wallace+Hesson+William%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yxEPVJnEO8qg8QHc94GoDw&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAQ
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torque

Can't Leave
May 21, 2013
444
2
@misterlowercase,
I have two old WDCs with the Hesson screw tennon/innner tube system. My older Milano has a stem that looks exactly like yours. Long, narrow, kind of elegant looking and screws into the shank exactly like yours. Best drawing pipe that I own. Interesting that BBB and Demuth both used the Hesson system on their pipes. My other one, a Milano Hesson, appears to be more recent with a shorter, thicker walled tube and slightly courser threads. Also a fine smoker. I have never had either one gurgle on me. I also have a Hesson Guard (pat no 1855800) but that's a totally different animal and off topic to the thread.

 
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May 31, 2012
4,295
34
@torque
Thanks for responding, glad to hear your positive reviews too so I know it ain't all in my head LOL
I've been looking for more Hessons, either BBB or WDC, especially the pencilshank'd variants.
Jon Guss dropped some knowledge on the BBB/WDC relationship around the middle of this thread,

http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/early-sandblasted-pipes-many-unknowns-yet-remain
...

 

torque

Can't Leave
May 21, 2013
444
2
Wow, can't believe I missed that thread when it was active. Awesome info as I have been on a bit of a WDC collecting binge here lately and have been absorbing any info I can find.
If you are actively seeking more of these then by all means DO NOT look at that Thorobred Kerly Grain that's on Ebay right now, lol. I suspect I'm going to end up in a bidding war with someone over that little jewel in a few days.
And you might appreciate this little Turin Rustic I picked up the other day. Haven't started cleaning it yet as I want to think about how to approach it. It's in great shape with fully intact staining, very lightly caked bowl that's going to clean out easily, very light oxidation under the wax on the stem and extremely mild pitting/roughness next to the button. The button itself is very sharply defined and almost perfect. The problem with this one is that there is heavy crud on the rim and it looks like someone actually waxed over top of it. This looks like all tar and no char so should clean up nicely if I approach the removal gingerly.


 
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