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Ok, So What Am I Actually Getting With High Quality Briar?

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seacaptain

seacaptain

Lifer
Apr 24, 2015
1,829
7
For the sake of argument, lets use Savinelli as an example. What's really the difference between a lower end Savinelli, say a Roma for $75, and a high end GDO for $500?
They say that only 1/10th of 1% of briar make it to the GDO line. But what are you really getting for the extra money?

You'll be able to smoke a Roma for the next 30 years same as a GDO.
I don't think it's an issue of fills, since you can get a sandblast GDO. So what exactly are the advantages of having "high quality" briar?

 
E

elpfeife

Lifer
Dec 25, 2013
1,289
479
I had a Savinelli Roma. My next pipe was a $200 Peterson. The difference was clear. The Peterson is a very good pipe but no high grade. The Roma is long gone. I've never looked back.

 
puffy

puffy

Lifer
Dec 24, 2010
2,511
98
North Carolina
Some qualities I think it should have..It should be lite for it's size,and balanced so that it feels really good in your hand.It should be free from defects.It should give a nice cool dry smoke.It's not impossible to get this in a low end pipe,but your odds get better as you go up.

 
sablebrush52

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,765
45,329
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
From a purely utilitarian standpoint, a mid range pipe will likely smoke as well as an expensive one. What you're paying for isn't better performance. You're paying for more expensive materials, briar with better graining, hand shaping to achieve a flawless smooth surface, better fit and finish, careful attention to the airway components, better quality vulcanite, a handmade more comfortable stem and bit. More handwork, higher manufacturing cost, translates to a higher price.

In theory, better materials and more careful construction yields a higher percentage of quality performers and a longer working lifespan.

 
jarit

jarit

Can't Leave
Jul 2, 2013
333
4
If we talk about Savinelli's lines that are machine fraized chart shapes (of which Giubileo d'Oro is the highest grade), I'd say that the chances are that the cheapest grade will smoke as good as the GdO. I've owned at least a couple of dozen Savs but only one GdO, which was a really really nice pipe but I don't think it smoked any sweeter than any of the cheaper grades did. I do know that it's not a big sample size, though.
I suppose that the higher grades spend more time on the bench during the finishing stages. Not sure about the better materials, though. The only reason I don't have that one GdO anymore is that I got fed up with the instant stem oxidation that all my older Savs had in common. Double as fast as any other pipes. Apparently Savinelli used the same 20 cent vulcanite in all their pipes -- despite the grade.
I still like Savinelli pipes and wouldn't have any qualms buying more of them -- as long the stem is made of acrylic.
Or perhaps they use better quality vulcanite nowadays? Any experiences on this?

 
seacaptain

seacaptain

Lifer
Apr 24, 2015
1,829
7
You're paying for more expensive materials, briar with better graining, hand shaping to achieve a flawless smooth surface, better fit and finish, careful attention to the airway components, better quality vulcanite, a handmade more comfortable stem and bit. More handwork, higher manufacturing cost, translates to a higher price.
Click to expand...
I'm with you on the whole fit and finish aspect of price. What I'm getting at though, is the briar itself. Aside from flaws/fills, what makes briar "high quality"? Using the same example, a GDO sandblast, what is "better" about the briar that makes it the top 1/10th of 1%? Since they're sandblasting it anyway, fills shouldn't be an issue in determining quality.
It should be lite for it's size
Click to expand...
If anything, that's the one thing I've noticed about my GDO. It seems noticeably lighter than my Dunhill and it has a slightly larger bowl.
I still like Savinelli pipes and wouldn't have any qualms buying more of them -- as long the stem is made of acrylic.
Click to expand...
Far as I know, GDO's have acrylic stems, at least the ones currently for sale on SP are listed that way.

 
sablebrush52

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,765
45,329
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
I'm with you on the whole fit and finish aspect of price. What I'm getting at though, is the briar itself. Aside from flaws/fills, what makes briar "high quality"? Using the same example, a GDO sandblast, what is "better" about the briar that makes it the top 1/10th of 1%? Since they're sandblasting it anyway, fills shouldn't be an issue in determining quality.
Click to expand...
Structure. The higher priced briar comes from the outer plateau portion of the burl. The less expensive wood is heart wood. The outer wood will have denser, more even, and more developed capillary structure - grain - which helps in keeping the pipe a cool smoker by offering better heat dispersion. It also has better resistance to damage from heat and moisture than heart wood. At least that's the theory, though some challenge it. Even with a blast, the structure of the wood plays the same role. And nicely structured wood offers a better and more interesting blast. Pits and flaws occur anywhere in the burl.

 
F

frozenchurchwarden

Lifer
Mar 1, 2014
3,647
4,916
From what I've read it's mostly aesthetic.

Any block can be covered in black, but to specifically match the grain to the shape of the bowl takes some skill. At least you can't just grab any given block and make nice ring grain or flame grain flowing evenly up the sides of the bowl. Really this means it's as much a matter of quantity as quality. Any properly engineered bowl could smoke as well as any other.

My high end purchases focus on makers that do lots of processing on the briar so that adds to the value for me (any given block is less likely to survive manufacturing, and theoretically should have less internal defects), but as far as smoking properties I'm starting to mostly ignore price.

 
seacaptain

seacaptain

Lifer
Apr 24, 2015
1,829
7
Structure. The higher priced briar comes from the outer plateau portion of the burl. The less expensive wood is heart wood. The outer wood will have denser, more even, and more developed capillary structure - grain - which helps in keeping the pipe a cool smoker by offering better heat dispersion. It also has better resistance to damage from heat and moisture than heart wood. At least that's the theory, though some challenge it. Even with a blast, the structure of the wood plays the same role. And nicely structured wood offers a better and more interesting blast. Pits and flaws occur anywhere in the burl.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the further explanation. I'm definitely learning things here.
So, as far as the volume of wood in a briar (bush? tree?), is the outer wood less volume than heartwood?

 
lostandfound

lostandfound

Part of the Furniture Now
Sep 30, 2011
924
44
Excluding aesthetics, I would expect a higher priced factory pipe to be more porous, thus absorbing moisture more readily. I would also expect a thin bit. Whether or not this is realistic, I'm not sure.

 
mso489

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,459
"...as far as smoking properties I'm starting to mostly ignore price." I think this is true about briar, since great briar can show up in moderately priced pipes. I would offer as a prime example Johs (made by Mogen Johansen of Denmark). His pipes are beginning to cinch up a bit in price, deservedly, but for years you could buy a handsome hand made pipe by Johs for less than $70, in many instances, with briar as light as anything you can buy, and well engineered and crafted. But my point is, he managed to use excellent lightweight briar in medium and larger pipes, at moderate prices. You will find this in many cases in new and estate pipe, which kind of surprises me when I've strained to ante up for some higher priced (to me) pipes, which are also good but not always better.

 
gloucesterman

gloucesterman

Lifer
Jan 4, 2015
1,858
11
Massachusetts
Apart from all the practical reasons better grade pipes cost more, for many, the pipe is piece of functional art. As such craftsmanship becomes an important part of the equation. In manufacturing time is money. The more time spent and the better quality of the materials all translates into higher costs. Each us has to decide if the additional expense is worth what it yields. Often it's more subjective than objective.

 
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