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Of Generosity and Handouts

(60 posts)
  • Started 6 years ago by shaintiques
  • Latest reply from Lawrence
  1. shaintiques

    shaintiques

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    First off let me say that this post is not meant to offend but inform. I have been on this forum for over a year and have experienced true generosity from many members. These folks have often sent me tobacco or pipes just because they wanted to out of the generosity of their own hearts. It has been a great experience and one that I have reciprocated when I am able. We all often talk about paying it forward and we do that pretty well, it is a very cool thing. We are a community and relate to one another as such not only in discussion but in the midst of helping one another with advice and even sending out gifts or care packages, and though this is fun and happens often new folks shouldn't expect handouts.

    I received a request from a new member the other day and it rubbed me the wrong way. He had seen that I had sent someone some tobacco last year sometime and wanted to know if I would send him some too. And generally I have enough tobacco to send out especially as I get a good bit free and would do anything to help a new smoker have a good experience, I felt taken advantage of. I did however tell him that I would send him a sampler if he paid the shipping, which he said was acceptable, but I haven't heard a peep out of him other than in a post where he said someone was sending him a pipe and tobacco free of charge!

    I see people get offended on here and leave and be childish about things, that isn't the point of this thread, it is a rather to say, "if someone is generous don't challenge their good nature by asking for a handout." Rather read, learn, and wait for someone to offer, or in the least if no one offers outright post your needs and see who comes to the rescue. Don't take advantage of us. This forum is a family who takes care of its own, not a free store.

    I know what I need, smoke, I can't recall the last time I tasted it....Gandalf in the mines of Moria.

    "we shall have to share pipes, as good friends must at a pinch'....'I keep a treasure or two near my skin, as precious as rings to me. Here's one: my old wooden pipe. And here's another an unused one...He held up a small pipe with a wide flattened bowl, and handed it to Gimli. 'Does that settle the score between us', said Merry. 'Most noble hobbit, it leaves me deep in your debt."
    Posted 6 years ago #
  2. tbradsim1

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    Amen to that Dave! I know the feeling. The old cajun

    The Old Cajun
    Posted 6 years ago #
  3. corncobguy

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    I wouldnt even think of asking anybody for anything. The nerve of some people. Im mad for you

    Posted 6 years ago #
  4. spyder71

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    I agree, well put!

    "I used to cry because I had no shoes. Until I met a man who had no feet"- My favorite and I use it to get by...

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    Posted 6 years ago #
  5. irishsmoker

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    Amen! I wish I had more to give!

    Posted 6 years ago #
  6. metarzan

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    Well stated. I have not been a member long but have made a few trades and had a couple blends gifted to me unsolicited. Sincerity comes across in ones posts and many times other members are all too happy to help out. If I come across an odd hankering for something and I happen to have extra of said oddity laying around I like to think I would help out too. Shameless entitlement has become a common part of our society, but I like to think the pipe crowd will be one of the last societies that becomes infected.

    P.S. If anyone has a Peterson Dracula Model 03 that they would give me...

    Posted 6 years ago #
  7. numbersix

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    Well said Shantiques. I would have been put off as well.

    "Be seeing you"


    Posted 6 years ago #
  8. rotschefeller

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    Haven't been around for all that long and I often don't have a whole lot to contribute as I am a lot less experienced than most of you.

    But you guys are by far the nicest forum I have ever visited. I wouldn't dream of sticking my hand out.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  9. captainprophesy

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    Amen to that! Like Irish I too wish I could do more for people.

    But unlike some (I had someone send me a sampler, from what I thought was the goodness of their heart but came with a note to make sure I give them a good write up and kudos on the forums... I did not, I sent it back and they are not here anymore) I dont want recognition when I send someone something (which I always feel is not enough, but thats another story)... nor do I make a big deal over it when someone sends me something.

    We are a community of good people... all of us. If and when we help each other out, it should be because we care about each other and not for selfish reasons (well other than it makes us feel good )

    I carry a gun... because a cop is too heavy!
    Posted 6 years ago #
  10. zonomo

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    Well folks, I come from the Atlas Shrugged school of life. I don't expect anything, would never ever ask for something free. Not in my nature. If some good natured soul were to offer (as a few have done here with advice and even Skype), then I'll appreciate it with deep felt sincerity of thanks. I'm sure this thread was somewhat difficult to write and I think you did a good job and stated it well shaintiques.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  11. yohanan

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    Exceptional thread that is well put and to the point, and that I strongly agree with.


    Smoke What You Like, And Like What You Smoke...Regardless Of What Anyone Else Thinks...
    Posted 6 years ago #
  12. batdemon

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    Well said, Dave. I couldn't agree more.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  13. chakaraka

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    New member here, but I totally agree with everything said by everyone here. It is a very friendly place, lot of people contributing in a very civil manner (what a refreshing change from other forums I've been a part of). I can't imagine the nerve of asking for a handout. The support, assistance and camraderie offered here are more than enough. Good for you shaintiques, for calling BS on an awkward situation.

    Mike.
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    Rookie, but learning.
    Posted 6 years ago #
  14. bigboi

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    I believe it was well put Shaintiques. I don't believe anyone should be offended by what you wrote.

    “I believe that pipe smoking contributes to a somewhat calm and objective judgement in all human affairs.”
    -Albert Einstein, 1950
    Posted 6 years ago #
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    Anonymous

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    Well said Dave and thanks for posting.

    While a lot of people do it, enjoy it and find it a great and interesting part of the hobby, I think I'm an odd duck.

    Very nice, generous people have offered to send me a tobacco sample (it happened today, in a post here), a cigar, or other stuff, but I shy away from it. If I send anyone anything, my name isn't on or in the package. I don't trade pipes, tobacco or cigars. I don't participate in passes.

    It's not that I don't appreciate this -- the kindness and generosity I see is awesome and heartfelt. I just feel funny about it all. I don't know why -- I don't like gifts because if I want something I will go out and buy it; I don't enjoy being given something because then I feel like I owe the benefactor something.

    Weird, I know.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  16. cigrmaster

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    Dave, that was a very good post and I would feel exactly the same as you.
    This place has the most generous people I have seen on a web site so if you are new and are active chances are someone will do a nice thing for you, but to ask a perfect stranger is just not cool.

    Harris
    Posted 6 years ago #
  17. tbradsim1

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    Damn Roth I was gonna send you Dunhill unsmoked 1960 #6 Root Briar, Oh well I"ll just have to keep it. The old cajun

    Posted 6 years ago #
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    Just think of me when you smoke it, Bradley

    Posted 6 years ago #
  19. captainsousie

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    Great post Dave, it is a bit tacky to ask for a handout instead of asking "what can I give you in trade?". I have been humbled by the kindness and generosity of people on this forum and hope to someday be as giving.

    Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
    Posted 6 years ago #
  20. shawn

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    Well said Sir! I have learned much from you Fellas! Thank you.

    Posted 6 years ago #
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    clarkkent

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    The only thing "free" I've come here for is camaraderie and advice. Both of these things I only truley desire when freely given. This is a very friendly community from what I've seen so far. Quite the change from other forums I've been a part of. It's amazing the world we leave in.... people are so quick to take advantage of the generosity of strangers.

    Robert

    Posted 6 years ago #
  22. misterzombie

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    Very well said. I didn't even know that this was a thing! I'm a new member myself and I just don't see how someone could feel comfortable enough to just outright ask like that. I mean, at least build up a relationship with this forum before making such requests, y'know? Sorry that you ended up feeling taken advantage of. In some of my other hobbies such as prop making this happens way too much where people ask for help on how to do something, have you hold their hand, and then never give a thank you and sometimes even have the audacity to say "I figured this out myself!". Poor tact and makes many people in that hobby reluctant to "give away secrets" and help new people. It is a shame to see that sort of mentality from new users coming here.

    In the end I want to thank everyone on this forum for providing me with incredible insight and knowledge into this hobby. I have greatly appreciated it. You all rock!

    "If you meet Buddha, kill Buddha. If you meet your father, kill your father. Attached to nothing, bound by nothing. Live life for the sake of life itself." - Buddhist proverb
    Posted 6 years ago #
  23. shaintiques

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    Thanks guys, I'm not trying to be a jerk, and really don't want the guy that asked to feel bad or unwelcome on the forum, yet asking for a handout is bad form, especially since you don't know me. If Bradley or Irish or any number of guys asked me for a sample of something I would gladly send it, but I know you guys, you have helped me, been generous, etc. This post is a shout out to the new guys to get involved with the community, get to know guys, and even do some trades, if you don't have anything to trade post a want list at the very least, and then see who steps up. This is the best group on earth, and our relationships often expand beyond the pipe, so take some time, learn, get to know the guys and you will be blessed, I have!

    Posted 6 years ago #
  24. bigvan

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    "...if you don't have anything to trade post a want list at the very least, and then see who steps up.

    I gotta disagree with you on this Shain. To me, this is still a situation where a new guy is begging for handouts. Tobacco really isn't that expensive, guys. Be a man and pay your own way.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  25. ejames

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    Hear,hear !!

    BTW-where have you been lately?? Haven't seen ya around !

    Posted 6 years ago #
  26. shaintiques

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    I've been training for a 40 mile hike on the Appalachian trail, haven't been posting as much. Also working on some pipes. I will post pics of the hike, especially the pipe smoking that occurs, late February.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  27. weezell

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    get to know the guys and you will be blessed, I have![quote] shaintiques...YES,well put,the weez

    "the weez"...
    Posted 6 years ago #
  28. frennchy11

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    I had a similar experience but I was unable to give the member any. After I declined I haven't heard from the person since. I hope that in the future I will be able to pay it forward but asking for free tobacco from a member is rude IMHO.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  29. guitarguy86

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    You hit the nail on the head shaintiques.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  30. redbeard

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    Do not feel like a jerk! That is the type of thing that hits you deep in your gut and you have to say something. I can't say I wouldn't of done something like that once I am able to contribute more and someone tried to take advantage of me.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  31. juvat270

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    I mentioned this same topic in the "Pet Peeves" thread a few months back so I obviously agree with you 100%. At the time there were some (one in particular especially) that didn't seem to have any qualms with making threads asking for free stuff or sending me PMs as well asking the same. I don't know why, but at the time it just rubbed me the wrong way. Still does. Shaintiques however hit the nail on the head!

    Posted 6 years ago #
  32. auspipe

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    I agree. I simply enjoy this forum as a place to converse with like minded people and have never had any handouts. My love for this hobby has been strengthened through the discussions on here more than anything.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  33. matchstickman

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    I look at the whole thing this way, and pardon my language on this, but karma is a real bitch. If you wrong another person or do something that could be considered unprofessional or tacky, it has a way of coming back to bite you. That being said, I have gifted a few different members on this forum a few different things, be they pipes or tobacco samples or anything else. I have also had offers from people who want to send me tobacco, and I almost never turn them down. I have given, and other people want to give, which I think is karma at work. I feel that if someone takes the initiative just to try and get a hand out, karma will come back and bite them. Just my two cents on the whole matter.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  34. mp31guitar

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    I had the same thing happen to me Shaintiques. My thought was, the nerve of someone that doesn't even know me. There are a lot of generous people here and there's always someone out there willing to take advantage at the least opportunity.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  35. cigrmaster

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    Since this subject has been brought up, I will mention something that happened to me a couple of weeks ago. I was contacted by a member who has been here for over a year and has made 3 posts in that time. There was a discussion going on about SG St James Flake and I mentioned I had just bought 5 pounds. This member contacts me and asks me for my source. Now we all know that the sponsors here get sold out of this blend real quickly( except cup of joes who charges 90.00 plus a pound) so he assumed that I had a special source. He was correct of course but that source took me hours to find calling every little mom and pop in the low tax states. As some of you know I have no problem sharing my source with friends here or even active members who I see on the site all the time. But this member is not active and I have never had any conversation with him. So I politely declined to tell him and did explain how I found this source. He answered with this " Sorry about that, I didn't realize it was a secret or anything." I found it to be rather snippy, but that could just be me and I was glad I did not share it with him.

    The point of all this is that unless you know someone for a while or have pm conversations with them, it is impolite to ask for peoples sources. Some of us work very hard acquiring the hard to find blends and to just assume that the source should be shared with a stranger is not correct.

    Posted 6 years ago #
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    flmason

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    I agree with Harris. It is always nice to share with others once they are known to be worthy of information.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  37. sparroa

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    On that general note, I think that members should have a forum presence before they start private messaging people about information or favours of any kind.

    There is no better way to get off on the wrong foot and earn yourself a frosty reception than to come off like a fly-by-nighter. After all, one has no way of knowing who you are or where your intentions lie - it doesn't matter if you read the forums religiously every day for three years, the person on the other end of the wire just can't know that. Speak up and get your name out there and people will at least have a passing familiarity with your handle or avatar - it will improve relations considerably.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  38. baronsamedi

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    I have people wanting to be on the box pass who I've never seen before and have made 1 or 2 posts and tellme they read the rules yet want to be on the list anyway. I'm sitting here thinking, OK so you read the rules. You know people wait 4 months to get on the list and then may wait a year to actually get the box and then you decide you don't want to take the time, socialize with the other members and accumulate the rather small number of necessary posts and I'm supposed to just go what the hell and push you to the front? And you are...? I made an exception for Irish, but OK When you go to war and get your limbs blown off for our country, maybe this former Army guy will be a little inclined to bend the rules for you. Otherwise Have a cup of STFU and wait like everyone else.

    I don't know if it's an age thing or an internet thing, but where I come from you have to take the time and build a repoire with people to be accepted as OK by any group. Acting like that toward some groups I've associated with can result in an educational beat down! Of course, we aren't going to beat anyone up, but I will be pretty terse if I have to.

    /RANT

    Proud Member of the Blackblood Society Photobucket
    Posted 6 years ago #
  39. freakiefrog

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    I was raised to be gracious when people give you something. But I was also raised not to be rude and ask for things in that manner..So I'd have to agree with the things said here that if you've got the stones to ask and they have the heart to agree then be adult enough to cowboy up and at least get on with your side of things ASAP and for the love of God don't back out. You've prayed on someones good graces you better have the resources to up hold your end of things..Sorry for the rant Rainy day here so I'm on edge.. And out of Frog Morton

    I have some friends, some honest friends, and honest friends are few; My pipe of briar, my open fire, A book that's not too new.
    Robert W. Service
    Posted 6 years ago #
  40. mustanggt

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    It seems there are people who act like seagulls and swoop in for some frenchfries and then move on. Their mommy and daddy must not have learned them right. I would never presume to ask someone for a handout. It goes against my nature. I was raised to be self sufficient and not have to depend on other people. If I absolutely can't do it after trying nine ways to Sunday then I'll reluctanly ask for help. Too many people want to do nothing and expect others to do the heavy lifting. Well to hell with those kind of lower than worm dung people.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  41. joshwolftree

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    @ shane
    1 Nail on the head post, but then I suppose some people just weren't brought up with manners.
    2 and more importantly, I live in WV right off the Appalachian trail so if you need a resupply while your down that way I'll fill your pouch and we'll have a swig or several of meade

    The true measure of a mans worth is how he chooses to chance his mortality
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    Posted 6 years ago #
  42. rondyr

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    Gives me all da free sh*t!

    I'm so awesome, I make myself jealous of myself.
    Posted 6 years ago #
  43. anthonyrosenthal74

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    I found free samples... good enough for me. Other than that, being a new pipe smoker, all I ask is someone occasionally suggest I try something. Otherwise how will I ever learn without spending a fortune? I think I've seen quite a bit of that on this forum... like Black House, everyone keeps talking about Black House. For the love of all that is right and good, ok! I'll order some Black House! Anyway, like I was saying. I think I've found a million tobaccos online with no idea what might be good or not. At least now, after joining the forum, I have some idea what I should try. I believe the first new thing I try will be Black House.

    That being said, I'm not the kind of guy who wants a handout. That's why I bust my tail at an underpaid job, and do my best to make ends meet on my own. If someone offers help, I'm not afraid to accept it, but I don't ask and I don't expect it. That's how I was raised I suppose. So you'll never see me messaging anyone with my hand out saying... "please, please, please, please."

    I think I mentioned something about links for free samples, but that's different in my opinion. They're offering. That's free anyway, and I'm trying to find new things.

    Arrrrr, shiver me timbers! International Talk Like a Pirate Day is September the 19th!!!
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    Posted 6 years ago #
  44. rmbittner

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    anthonyrosenthal74:

    I don't want to take this great thread off the original topic, so I'm PMing you with some ideas for finding some great blends you'll likely enjoy.

    Bob

    Posted 6 years ago #
  45. swhipple

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    If you don't know me, don't ask me for anything because your not going to get it! If you are my friend and I know I can help you I will give all I can. But com'n man, if you can't afford tobacco you need to quit puffing and get back to work.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  46. mctrav

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    Asking for a handout and expecting one when you don't know that person is just bad form.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  47. brewshooter

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    This thread is spot on. I have given and I have received. I do so, because I want to be helpful or the spirit moves me. I certainly don’t need any special recognition, as I’m no different than many others on this forum. If it weren’t for the generous tobacco gift from a member on one of my brewing forums several years back, I wouldn’t have gotten into this fine hobby in the first place.

    I am reminded of an interaction I had with one of the vendors on this forum. I was ordering several pipes and a number of orders were coming in from people on this forum for similar products. He noted that he was thinking about giving me one of the pipes for free, as it was going to be a gifted pipe, but wasn’t sure if he could afford to do so, because several forum members had already asked him for free pipes and he’d given away several already. I informed him that I appreciated the thought and had no problem paying for a quality product and then wondered, “Who the #$*& is asking vendors to just give them free pipes?!!?”

    Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
    -C. S. Lewis, English essayist & juvenile novelist (1898 - 1963)
    Posted 6 years ago #
  48. baronsamedi

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    I have seen amazing amounts of generosity on this forum. If you get to know the pipers here and they find out you are truly in need, you will have to turn away offers to help (good luck with that working). This forum is like anywhere else you go in life. If you take your time and people see you always shoot straight with them, they will give you the shirts off their backs.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  49. irishsmoker

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    I've never been one to ask for help. But such as my cane breaking I've try to deny the kindness of my friends and brothers here but to no avail!

    Posted 6 years ago #
  50. shaintiques

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    Generosity and the acceptance of it is the point Irish, lots of guys on here are generous and generosity is fun when you can do it, but asking for handouts is something else.

    Brewshooter "and then wondered, “Who the #$*& is asking vendors to just give them free pipes?!!?” LOL

    Posted 6 years ago #
  51. pipeinhand

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    "A cup of STFU" You crack me up dude.

    Giving is from the heart, being ASKED to give is only from the wallet. I worked at a place once that TOLD me to give to UNICEF on their account. I told them I give each year to Salvation Army and wouldn't participate in their program. They then told me my job depended on it, I said I will take my last check and leave. Never heard a peep from them the rest of the time I worked there.

    “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of
    anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life,
    nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
    Posted 6 years ago #
  52. anthonyrosenthal74

    anthonyrosenthal74

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    @pipeinhand Dang right! They probably knew they messed up. I'm pretty sure there would be a legal issue with a company terminating your employment for not giving to a charity.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  53. cajundad

    cajundad

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    I second your emotions Shaintiques , and same to the rest of the guys here . Beggers and hinters will get zip from me . I will help someone when I recognize the need . If I dont recognize the need , I wasnt meant to help . Thanks to all of the guys on here that give and recieve graciously !

    "A pipe is the fountain of contemplation, the source of pleasure, the companion of the wise; and the man who smokes, thinks like a philosopher and acts like a Samaritan."
    -Edward George Bulwer-Lytton, 1st Baron Lytton
    Posted 6 years ago #
  54. User has not uploaded an avatar

    pflan

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    Everyone:

    I am, in fact, the new member mentioned in shaintiques original post. I do feel somewhat attacked, but I do understand why. I would hate for everyone on the forums to get the wrong impression of me, but I see that it may be too late at this point. The message that was sent was really not meant to be seen as a newbie begging for handouts. I am simply new to the hobby and saw where he offered to help another member by sending out some tobaccos to kind of help the smoker decide what he liked. I found myself in the same situation, and did not see a problem in asking for some help from a senior member.

    I am only 21 years old, but I have worked for everything that I have. I have a part-time job while I am finishing up college. That being said, after paying for bills and gas, I tend to have very little money left over. I have been able to save back to afford a cheap pipe or two, but really can't afford to buy a sample of 10-15 different tobaccos to find out what I enjoy.

    I did receive a message from another member shortly after speaking with shaintiques that volunteered to send me an old estate pipe he fixed up along with some English blends to try out. This was completely unsolicited and I even asked if he was sure and asked him how much he needed for shipping. He assured me that he had a pre-paid shipping box and would send them right out. I apologize for not following up with shaintiques on the matter, which I suppose is really what made the situation kind of suspicious.

    I apologize, sincerely, to shaintiques and everyone else on the forums for my bad form. I never really thought it would turn into this, and I really never meant to make anyone feel "awkward" or like I was begging for handouts.

    That being said, I still really want to keep venturing into the world of pipe smoking and hope that I have everyone's support. As I finish up school and start working full-time, I fully plan on paying it forward and helping out some new members when the time comes.

    My apologies and thanks,

    pflan

    Posted 6 years ago #
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    Anonymous

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    Pflan, it takes courage, humility and character to come back here and post this as you have done, facing the music as it were. We all make mistakes. Your comments here reflect insight and a better understanding of the standards of etiquette shown and respected here. I, for one, respect that. Thank you for posting.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  56. User has not uploaded an avatar

    pflan

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    Thank you rothnh. I do want to be accepted on the forums as just another member that asks questions and answers them when I can. I'm here to learn, practice, and pay it forward. My hope is that I can be forgiven and that we can all move on from here.

    You all have been extremely helpful and are some of the most courteous and willing folks that I have come across in life.

    From a new and learning (obviously) member,

    pflan

    Posted 6 years ago #
  57. tbradsim1

    tbradsim1

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    You"re trying to make it right, I"ll buy that. The old cajun

    Posted 6 years ago #
  58. User has not uploaded an avatar

    pflan

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    Yes I am, in all sincerity. Thanks cajun.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  59. joshwolftree

    joshwolftree

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    Learning to smoke a pipe is full of tongue bite,gurgles,relights,over tamping,under tamping,hot bowls, and occasionally really really nasty tasting ARO's. Learning to live is no different. Sometimes you just gotta empty the bowl and pack a new one. Welcome to the party PFlan, look forward to seeing how you do.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  60. pstlpkr

    Lawrence

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    Perfect post Pflan.
    Very good words.

    I think this is a good place to put this to rest.


    "Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put." Winston Churchill
    View Lawrence  Whitcomb's profile on LinkedIn
    Posted 6 years ago #

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