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carver

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 29, 2015
625
3
Belgium
I screwed up.
What I did with the website mytobaccocellar.com was wrong.

Using tobaccoreviews data was wrong, helping myself with bits of design from other websites was wrong. And also highly stupid since I could have done it myself. I was just lazy.
I did try to justify it and made excuses for my behaviour. That was wrong too.

No matter the intent and the good will, the way I did it was wrong, period.

I regret and take responsibility for my actions.
I appreciate and am grateful for the time and understanding that Chuck Stanion from tobaccoreviews had for me.
I assure the community and all parties involved that I will remove every and all elements from mytobaccocellar that are not mine.

All data from tobaccoreviews will be deleted, and all elements of design or bits of code will be removed.
The code between my things and things I took can be messy, so although I will provide my best effort to clean everything, I still might miss things.

I would appreciate any nudges or gentle reminders towards elements that I might miss during this process.

It won't be intentional, please tell me and I will then remove that immediately.
Apologies for everything.
Thanks for your time and understanding.
Carver.

 

beefeater33

Lifer
Apr 14, 2014
4,063
6,119
Central Ohio
Carver-

I followed that whole saga..........

I think you were trying to do a GOOD thing. I say no harm no fowl. Your post speaks volumes of your character-- We all screw up from time to time. You were trying to make something better out of an existing product, and I commend you for it........

Good to see you posting again, and my wish would be you guys could reach an understanding where we all could benefit........

Apologies accepted, though not needed...... :puffy:

 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,570
27,078
Carmel Valley, CA
And I say, no ham, no fowl! Very well stated, and I hope all parties are now satisfied. Thank you for writing that out, and welcome back!

 

fnord

Lifer
Dec 28, 2011
2,746
8
Topeka, KS
Sorry. I completely missed this business. Anybody care to give a synopsis?
Carver, no disrespect meant but your meticulously written and thorough apology reads like a court ordered or agreed upon mea culpa. If I'm wrong you have my sincerest apologies.
Fnord

 

carver

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 29, 2015
625
3
Belgium
Fnord.

I made a website for cellaring purposes. Since I only wanted to do the tools and needed blends data, I asked tobaccoreviews.com for their info, they refused it. So I took it, hoping that it would all be ok if what I did had good start intentions. "Maybe they will even want to collaborate".

I also wanted to work with James Foster (pylorns) from thepipetool.com but he had already a developer so he didn't need me. But since I wanted a tool that had the features I wanted, I just went for it and did it, but on way I also copied bits of HTML code from thepipetool.com.
It wasn't right, it isn't right. And it took me a moment to get it. As I said, I kept justifying myself that "if it is for everyone to use, why is this a problem? "
I know most people would understand such things straight away, I didn't.

I am now, after weeks of justifying myself and finding excuses for doing things the way I did it, simply taking responsibilities for my actions without crap.
It isn't court ordered. I have been lucky that the parties involved didn't sue, and accepted a dialogue.

However, it was a friendly and much needed piece of advice. And I am very grateful that somebody from one of the parties involved in this cared enough to give it to me.
Carver.

 

jvnshr

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 4, 2015
4,616
3,868
Baku, Azerbaijan
Carver, I've always enjoyed your posts (mostly the ones about China). It is good to know that you guys found an effective way of creating a beneficial dialogue and negotiated at last. Welcome back!

 

pipestud

Lifer
Dec 6, 2012
2,010
1,749
Robinson, TX.
Hi deniz,
I cannot speak for all, but tobaccoreviews.com, which uses my photos of tins from my website, especially the older, out of production ones, had first asked for and received permission to do so anytime they want to. And, they even credit my site when doing so. So, they certainly have not stolen (a rather strong assertion). And, whenever I have information on a blend that they do not, they have my permission to use whatever portion or all of the information when setting their listings. Chuck Stanion was also kind enough to give his blessings to my using tobaccoreviews.com descriptions of blends on my tobacco website. TRC is not only an invaluable resource for our hobby, it is run very professionally and is in good hands.
Regarding producers of blends and their marketing teams; they absolutely freely give TRC the information with their permission. They know that having information about their blends on TRC is an invaluable marketing tool for them. Again, the blenders and TRC work together. Nothing is stolen or arbitrarily used without permission.

 

woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
11,591
15,313
SE PA USA
I always thought those picture from TR.com are free to use
Nothing is free. Or very little is free, anyways.
I have a good friend, a photographer. You've all seen his work in news magazines, Sports Illustrated and just about every newspaper and news website in the world. He now derives a large portion of his income by simply sitting down at his computer and doing image searches for sites that have used (stolen) his photos without his permission. He then sends them a polite letter, offering a retroactive licensing agreement (at reasonable rates). If they decline that offer, he sends the matter to his attorney, who then files copyright infringement actions against them. Then it gets very expensive for the people who stole his work.
My friend has worked hard for many, many years building his skills and his business. He is entitled to the fruits of his labor, as are all photographers, artists, writers, computer coders and other producers of intellectual property. I warned Carver about his actions, before all of this blew up on him, and he dismissed me. He is very fortunate that the people he stole from have been so generous with him and let him off with just a public apology. Perhaps it is because they realize how difficult it would be collect damages from him, but perhaps it's because both Chuck Stanion and James Foster are good people.
Please re-read Steve's comments. If you want to leverage the collective work and knowledge of our community, follow his example, this is how it's done: through openness, honesty and by building relationships. It's why Pipestud has such a fine reputation. He didn't copy it, he earned it.

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,700
16,209
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
Well written indeed Woods. Of course, the piracy continues. Many people take the attitude of, "If it's on my computer, it's mine." If I post a photo is, it is tiny. it is low grade. Doesn't stop people from stealing it but, the quality is too poor for commercial use. I hope!

 

carver

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 29, 2015
625
3
Belgium
I don't want to force the hand of anyone. Chuck has been very patient and James is understandably mainly very mad at me. Chuck said that matters will be dropped if I promised to remove TRC data. The reason of this message here is not "publicly apologise or face consequences". It's just me who realise that I made mistakes, those mistakes made me lose the respect of my peers, and at the end of the day, that's the most important. This is an attempt to make amends and slowly, maybe, regain some of it.

 

fnord

Lifer
Dec 28, 2011
2,746
8
Topeka, KS
Carver:
I appreciate very much your public and back channel communications to me but I'm also going to wager that you're a relatively young person.
Your public admission of wrong doing is a very positive step in the rehabilitation and redemption process. But please don't be surprised if it takes much longer to recapture the respect of your peers. You felt justified in taking something that belonged to another party because it was for the common good and, friend, the world simply doesn't move that way. You're not entitled to anything beyond what you've created or paid for and there are many, many limitations on the latter.
Several people I admire greatly have responded to this thread. Please follow their advice and admonitions. Dan's blueprint: "If you want to leverage the collective work and knowledge of our community, follow his example, this is how it's done: through openness, honesty and by building relationships. It's why Pipestud has such a fine reputation. He didn't copy it, he earned it."
I wish you the best, bub.
Fnord

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,433
Setting up anything involving other peoples' work requires careful research and consultation to be sure you are on-base with all the legal and ethical points. Otherwise it's a hard learning curve indeed. Even just keeping it "legal" isn't good enough if many in the field of interest end up thinking less of you and refusing to do business. It's a hard lesson but worth learning. Start out with people who know, professionally, what needs to be done and what the pitfalls are.

 
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