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Nicotine & The Brain

(95 posts)
  • Started 4 months ago by tufftony
  • Latest reply from Olkofri
  1. tufftony

    tufftony

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    I've read somewhere that nicotine can, in a sense, be good for you
    because it finds and blocks certain kinds of receptors in the brain.
    By doing this it has the effect of preventing similar-shaped but
    truly harmful molecules seeking out and attaching themselves to
    those same receptors.

    Does anyone here know anything about this? Can anyone confirm it?

    Posted 4 months ago #
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    jitterbugdude

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    There are 4 main alkoloids in tobacco. Nicotine, Nornicotine, Anatabine and Anabasine. Each one effects brains cells to varying degrees. Most notably when it comes to Alzheimer's (AD) and Parkinsons (PD). In the case of AD they upregulate the Acetylcholine receptors.. correctly called Nicotinic-acetylcholine receptors. One of the many hallmarks of AD is the destruction of these receptors. A lifetime of moderate smoking is associated with a 40% reduction in AD. For PD they act as MOA-B inhibitors. This is an enzyme that rises as we age. It destroys the Dopamine brain cells. Once about 70% of your Dopamine brain cells are destroyed you have PD and there is absolutely nothing you can to to cure it. Lifetime smoking is associated with an 80% reduction in PD.

    You want get much informed feedback from a lot of the people of this group. Most are just as brainwashed as the rest of the population that all forms of smoking, in any amount has a negative impact on your health.

    As for confirming via published studies in peer reviewed journals? I certainly can but I'm not going to waste my time. Most people are set in their beliefs and I'm not going to waste my time convincing them.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  3. ashdigger

    ashdigger

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    I have a very intimate relationship with Lady N. What we do is nobody's business.

    Ubi Ignis Est?
    Posted 4 months ago #
  4. bassbug

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    If all you're looking for is nicotine, you should be vaping.

    If you're looking for rationalizations to smoke, you've come to the right place.

    Smoking has negative effects on your health...period. It's just a matter of degree.

    I don't care who you are, you're not walking on the water while I'm fishing
    Posted 4 months ago #
  5. ashdigger

    ashdigger

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    LIVING

    has negative effects on your health...period. It's just a matter of degree

    There, I fixed it for you.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  6. tufftony

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    There are 4 main alkoloids in tobacco. Nicotine, Nornicotine, Anatabine and Anabasine. Each one effects brains cells to varying degrees. Most notably when it comes to Alzheimer's (AD) and Parkinsons (PD). In the case of AD they upregulate the Acetylcholine receptors.. correctly called Nicotinic-acetylcholine receptors. One of the many hallmarks of AD is the destruction of these receptors. A lifetime of moderate smoking is associated with a 40% reduction in AD. For PD they act as MOA-B inhibitors. This is an enzyme that rises as we age. It destroys the Dopamine brain cells. Once about 70% of your Dopamine brain cells are destroyed you have PD and there is absolutely nothing you can to to cure it. Lifetime smoking is associated with an 80% reduction in PD.

    This is astounding news! Thank you so much. So it really is a fact
    that smoking is good for the health in helping to prevent or reduce
    the risk of the dreaded Alzheimer's and Parkinson's diseases? Amazing!

    Thank you again. It's wonderful to have a truly informed opinion on
    such a vital matter that should be of concern to everyone and it's
    a certainty that mainstream medicine won't welcome this news.
    A patient cured is a customer lost seems to be their motto.

    :clap:

    Posted 4 months ago #
  7. chasingembers

    Embers

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    Nicotine in me is good for those around me.

    Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.
    -Edward Teach
    Posted 4 months ago #
  8. olkofri

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    It also has positive effects on one's health.

    Case in point: if I should be worried about any type of cancer, it'd be some kind of gastro-intestinal cancer, due to continued irritation of the gut brought about by 24/7 deep sorrow, which also causes anger and stress, all of which impacts the gut causing all kinds of issues. No; medication is NOT a viable solution: it will only irritate the gut more.

    Pipe smoking gives me a certain amount of relaxation and is a strain reliever. Thus, smoking, at least in my case, IS healthy.

    That it might irritate my throat is also undeniable, as is the fact that if I were to inhale it it would be deleterious too.

    Bottom line, there is NOTHING that is absolutely inocuous or 100% 'healthy'. It's a balancing act.

    Post-bottom line: it comes down to how you approach or define Health. If I am to take the materialistic view then, yes, smoking kills, quit now! If, on the other hand, I take the wise approach that health is holistic: both soul AND body, then smoking can be healthy.

    Not the sweet, new grass with flowers is this harvesting of mine;
    Not the upland clover bloom...
    Posted 4 months ago #
  9. tufftony

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    If all you're looking for is nicotine, you should be vaping.
    If you're looking for rationalizations to smoke, you've come to the right place.
    Smoking has negative effects on your health...period. It's just a matter of degree.

    No. My post was perfectly clear. I was looking for information and I found it
    from an intelligent member. You really ought to learn to keep your
    suppositions to yourself.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  10. brian64

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    If all you're looking for is nicotine, you should be vaping.

    This presupposes that vaping has less health risk than pipe smoking. As far as I know there is no data to back that up, and I am very skeptical that whatever it is that people are inhaling when vaping is going to prove to be much or any less harmful than inhaling tobacco smoke...but I really don't know and I don't think anyone does at this point. But most pipe smokers aren't doing that kind of inhaling.

    Nicotine in me is good for those around me.

    LOL ... great point. Second hand nicotine doesn't get any press because it's a positive.

    If, on the other hand, I take the wise approach that health is holistic: both soul AND body, then smoking can be healthy.

    +1

    I would only add that the term "smoking" by itself doesn't distinguish between the different types and amounts of smoking...which IMO is a very significant distinction.

    “Bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.” – George Carlin
    Posted 4 months ago #
  11. ashdigger

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    from an intelligent member

    Tony, I urge you to watch your bullshit. If you want to denigrate an opinion, this place isn't for you.

    A simple opinion was offered. No need for your shitty response.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  12. tufftony

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    Pipe smoking gives me a certain amount of relaxation and is a strain reliever.
    Thus, smoking, at least in my case, IS healthy.

    Of course, Olkofri, I'm sure it does. Apart from whatever particular circumstances
    may be adversely affecting an individual, modern life itself is a highly stressful
    business for many people and that precisely is why they smoke. It has a soothing
    effect that helps them cope by reducing stress.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  13. tufftony

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    Tony, I urge you to watch your bullshit. If you want to denigrate an opinion, this place isn't for you.
    A simple opinion was offered. No need for your shitty response.

    It wasn't a "simple opinion'. It was a snide remark and an outright denial
    of the valuable information we had just been offered. And I replied in kind.
    And just what gives you the right to describe my posts as "bullshit"? Huh?

    Posted 4 months ago #
  14. olkofri

    Olkofri

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    @brian64: 10-4. I should have said 'moderate pipe or cigar smoking' which implies is not inhaled.

    Tony: calm down, mate. I know we can get carried away. I've a mercurial temperament myself, but let's keep it nice and easygoing. I've met Bassbug in person and not only is he very far from a ninny, but he's also a great guy.

    Let's all pipe smokers get along; the enemy is out there, not here.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  15. ashdigger

    ashdigger

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    It wasn't a "simple opinion'. It was a snide remark and an outright denial
    of the valuable information we had just been offered

    Value is in the eye of the beholder.

    Just like bullshit.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  16. brian64

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    Tony: I didn't agree with his opinion either the way it was stated, but I don't think it was out of line in any way.

    But I too think your reply was uncalled for the way you stated it. Maybe try being semi-tuff.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  17. tufftony

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    the enemy is out there, not here

    I'm not so sure about that. Isn't the enemy those who attack smoking?
    And what was it that bassbug said: "Smoking has negative effects on your
    health...period.'

    What has been pointed out in this thread is that it can also have very positive effects.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  18. olkofri

    Olkofri

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    Yup, and fewer things would make the antis happier than pipe smokers bickering among themselves.

    I didn't agree with that, shall we say, categoric statement from Bassbug either. I also jumped and started typing, hence the first sentence in my first post on this thread.

    Now, categorical or not, the statement "Smoking has negative effects on your health...period" is not untrue. My saying that NOTHING is 100% innocuous kinda ratifies it. The heart of the matter is whether those negative effects are something to be getting bent out of shape over.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  19. tufftony

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    Well, as I understand it, Alzheimers and Parkinson's are extremely
    serious matters and I've heard that the incidence of the former is
    set to increase dramatically. An outright denial of a scientific
    account of Alzheimers is not an argument - it is an insult.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  20. bassbug

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    @ashdigger...don't get too worked up over this,I have thicker skin than that and especially when it comes to forums.

    @tufftony, I would maybe suggest a brief read through "how to make friends and influence people"....unless you don't think its intelligent enough

    And by the way, welcome to the forum.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  21. bassbug

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    What has been pointed out in this thread is that it can also have very positive effects.

    Sigh....

    Posted 4 months ago #
  22. warren

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    tuff: Are you trying to sell yourself on the efficacy of smoking? Or, someone else?

    Yes nicotine may be useful. The science is mixed at best. Taking carcinogens into your body is, unarguably harmful. So ... at best, one might consider the risk/reward to be a wash when "tap dancing" around seeking justifications to spend your moneys for tobacco products. Kind of a "pick your poison" decision. I suppose if you worry more about mental deficiencies than physical health ... only wanting the nicotine, vaping might be a consideration. The "patch" may be a better choice as they do not explode on your arm.

    Picking and choosing one study over another so as to justify our wee vice is one way of handling the choice I suppose.

    If one desires to smoke tobacco ... smoke the tobacco and give no further thought to whether it is a bad thing (undeniable it is) or, in the extreme, minimally helpful with regard to your mental well being.

    A man without a shillelagh is a man without an expedient.
    Posted 4 months ago #
  23. jvnshr

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    Pipe and cigar smoking makes me happy, I mean it. When I am happy, I just ignore bad things happening around me; a stupid colleague, a bad driver, an offensive forum member, etc.

    Javan
    Posted 4 months ago #
  24. warren

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    Pipe and cigar smoking makes me happy, I mean it. When I am happy, I just ignore bad things happening around me; a stupid colleague, a bad driver, an offensive forum member, etc.

    Javan: You've got it! Just smoke for the sheer joy of it! Questioning your decisions, studying the assorted and conflicting science, going to war against the anti's (A war for which we are sadly unarmed.) simply takes from the experience.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  25. lordofthepiperings

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    I think it was Fred Hanna who did a piece on Lady N quite a while back at a Chicago Pipe Show. He then came on the radio show and expounded on it a bit.

    The gist of what he was explaining is that nicotine metabolizes into cotinine which is currently being studied as a treatment for depression, PTSD, schizophrenia, Alzheimer's disease and Parkinson's disease. The problem is that pharmaceutical companies haven't (at least to my limited knowledge to date) been able to make a synthetic version of it to use to prescribe as a medication to people dealing with those mentioned conditions/diseases. Since it's a natural occurring substance you can't copyright or patent it; much like alcohol, you can only copyright or patent a way of processing it. I don't recall if Fred got into details about the science behind it, or if anyone in the medical research field has even come to solid theories or inferences as to why nicotine does help in those situations.

    "The thinking man always smokes a Peterson." -Peterson of Dublin
    Posted 4 months ago #
  26. brian64

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    As far as the specific issue of nicotine as a dementia preventative, I'll just say this...we have some aging politicians who are obviously nicotine deficient.

    Since it's a natural occurring substance you can't copyright or patent it

    Which is one of the motivations behind all genetic engineering...those "products" can be patented.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  27. tufftony

    tufftony

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    You want get much informed feedback from a lot of the people of this group.
    Most are just as brainwashed as the rest of the population that all forms of smoking,
    in any amount has a negative impact on your health.

    Yes. One is reminded of the saying Cast not your pearls before swine, lest they
    trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

    Well, at least I'm genuinely grateful for the information you posted. I've suspected
    for years that the hysterical opposition to tobacco was not because it was bad for you,
    but because it was good.

    Domo arigato gozaimasu!

    Posted 4 months ago #
  28. bassbug

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    I've suspected
    for years that the hysterical opposition to tobacco was not because it was bad for you,
    but because it was good.

    I'm sorry, I know I'm being an absolute shit disturber here but....

    EVEN BIGGER SIGH

    Posted 4 months ago #
  29. ashdigger

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    ^^ agreed.

    I'm not sure why someone is so desperate to find a positive side of inhaling the products of incomplete combustion.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  30. bassbug

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    Well now, there is a positive side. It tastes good.

    Mind you, there's lots of folks out there that also find a positive side to thinking the earth is flat.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  31. hawky454

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    Fred Hanna has a wealth of knowledge when it comes to this subject. I believe he covers it some on the pipes mag podcast. Worth looking into his studies/research.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  32. curl

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    I think nicotine is the perfect drug for golf, maybe for lots of sports.
    Nicotine improves your thinking, important for seeing the situation and making decisions.
    Nicotine relaxes your body; your swing is better if you’re calm.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  33. olkofri

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    Like a lot of plants, tobacco does have some therapeutic applications. Same thing with coca leaves, and cannabis. I'm strongly opposed to smoking/using pot, but I'd be lying if I were to say that any exposure to cannabis is bad for you. The issue is with the delivery mechanism. A coca infusion/tea (healthy) is never gonna be the same as snorting the raw active ingredient –cocaine– (unhealthy).

    Tabacum, Nicotiana rustica, Coca, Cannabis indica, and Cannabis sativa are remedies in the Homoeopathic Repertorium. Obviously, smoking them is NOT homoeopathic practice; their presence in the repertorium simply attests to their therapeutic usefulness.

    A very wise man once said that the goodness of things in creation depends on their staying in their allocated places. A proverbial derivative of that is the saying 'a place for everything and everything in its place'.

    Recently, in some thread it was mentioned that prior to the whole business with Big Tobacco, medical books (allopathic) discussed the therapeutic uses of tobacco. Of course, I don't think that line of research would be pursued nowadays; and if there are researchers doing so, they won't get their results published in peer- pal-reviewed journals, nor are they likely to be funded by essentially anyone: Big Tobacco won't fund pro-tobacco studies, because they would be accussed of malfeasance; the antis and friends won't fund them (obviously); and private individuals would think twice about running afoul of the current power players.

    Smoke 'em while you got 'em.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  34. olkofri

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    Nicotine improves your thinking, important for seeing the situation and making decisions.

    Indeed. Hence the origin of the expression 'up to snuff'.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  35. derhammer

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    This is a very interesting topic.
    Thanks Jitterbugdude for the valuable information. I guess I am also constantly seeking for a kind of "justification" to enjoy smoking.
    I agree very much with Olkofri with the wise holistic approach as I too believe that every single one is kind of similar but also very different at the same time.

    Pierre
    Posted 4 months ago #
  36. johnbrody15

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    Curious about the idea brought up here about nicotine helping Alzheimer and Parkinson's, I did a quick search. At this hour, my attention span is pretty short, but there's info out there. Fascinating. But, a distinction is made between nicotine and smoking tobacco. On short glance, it looks like there's something to treating Alzheimer's and Parkinson's with nicotine patches. Although I don't think that equates to tobacco smoking being good for you. I'd definitely argue for pipes and cigars for pretty much all these reasons that have already been stated. And it's a nice "plus" if it turns out nicotine fights Alz and Parkinson's.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  37. jpmcwjr

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    I think nicotine is the perfect drug for golf, maybe for lots of sports.
    Nicotine improves your thinking, important for seeing the situation and making decisions.
    Nicotine relaxes your body; your swing is better if you’re calm.

    Today was a four pipe problem on the golf course. I'd hate to think I'd have played worse without Father Dempsey's company.

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 4 months ago #
  38. jvnshr

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    Javan: You've got it! Just smoke for the sheer joy of it! Questioning your decisions, studying the assorted and conflicting science, going to war against the anti's (A war for which we are sadly unarmed.) simply takes from the experience.

    Warren, one thing I learned from you is to stop worrying about things I can't control. I am happier than ever now.

    Posted 4 months ago #
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    frozenchurchwarden

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    I'm not sure why someone is so desperate to find a positive side of inhaling the products of incomplete combustion

    Inhalation is completely unnecessary and 99% of the reason people freak out about tobacco so much to begin with.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  40. newbroom

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    warren said: The "patch" may be a better choice as they do not explode on your arm.

    I think nicotine does help relax me, as well as to release my mind from immediate concern.
    Pipe tobacco tastes good to me, too. My addiction seems less threatening, much more enjoyable than when I used paper tubes and inhaled.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  41. davek

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    Any and all drugs have a cost benefit ratio. The most useful drugs have side effects. Nicotine has beneficial effects on the brain. Tobacco smoke and nicotine also have deleterious effects on your body. It can all be true.

    I did find further information on it's brain benefits interesting. I think Jitterbugdude mentioned moderation.

    What I hate is anti-smoking folks refusing to admit that different forms of tobacco use have different levels of health risks. I've even heard them say that they would not say *anything* at all positive about *any* smoking since it was all bad to a degree. Never mind the fact that one form of use may be half or less as bad for you and that if a person has made the decision to smoke it would be a very positive choice to pick the lesser of evils.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  42. mso489

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    Worked with a scientist, biomedical researcher (happened to be a Native American) who did neuroscience. I wrote several news releases over the years about his work. What I remember was that nicotine is active in the hippocampus area of the brain, and I think there were at least proposed pharmaceutical possibilities. Science always progresses slowly, but the evil tobacco leaf may yet do some good work.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  43. cosmicfolklore

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    I have had to watch many friends and family pass with Alzheimer's and Parkinsons, and absolutely ALL of them were smokers.

    Michael
    Posted 4 months ago #
  44. cortezattic

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    ...many friends and family pass with Alzheimer's and Parkinsons, and absolutely ALL of them were smokers.
    If Alzheimer's and Parkinson's are contagious and/or hereditary, that would explain a lot!

    I find myself sitting idly on the line dividing past and future,
    as if I could kill time without injuring eternity. -- Thoreau
    Posted 4 months ago #
  45. mso489

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    Cosmic, I wonder if health statistics support a Parkinson's or Alzheimer's association with smoking. It seems like we would have been clobbered with that news if they had. That gives me the inkling that none of the stats show that. There was concern at one time about aluminum in some anti-perspirants being related to Alzheimer's, but the aluminum is still there so it may not be convincing. The public can latch onto notions and want them to be true, but when the data don't support the conclusion, the public breaks off into antagonistic tribes and keeps insisting. The thing about science is, it most often disappoints the scientist her- or himself and makes 'em go back and work harder to figure out what is going on. Science is a cruel discipline and is seldom emotionally satisfying, except when it is, when it seems like pure magic. And then it throws another fifty questions at you that are unanswerable for the foreseeable future. No wonder the public scorns science. It doesn't flatter us at all.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  46. warren

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    mso makes good points. There are scientists who truly love it. The color within the lines and are faithful to their profession. Then ... there are the scientists who only work to publish. Being published means money, tenure of they teach. It's the motive of the scientist that matters in my opinion. Those looking for glory and money may structure results to meet expectations. Many become so wedded to results no longer supported by research that they go ballistic when questioned.

    My kind of scientist cares naught for the results. Results are simply a by product of the work they love. I like the guy, coop up in his thoughts, in a lab seeking facts and truth not notoriety. I firmly believe there are true scientists our there, more than the self-serving seeking kind. I hope that is true.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  47. mso489

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    Two of my favorite scientists were considered loopy for most of their prime, and only later honored when science caught up with them. Barbara McClintock was considered the little old lady in tennis shoes, which she wore, and was kind of the town fool at genetics meetings and unable to publish a lot of her work. Then science finally caught up with her "jumping genes" work, and she won the Nobel Prize, and then she published a group of the unpublished papers which were also discovered to be correct. Her colleagues eventually couldn't bow and scrape enough. She just stayed with the data, which she knew was correct, and waited for the blowhard egos to come to her. She didn't give a hoot, loved the work, got it right, and with her Nobel money ... she said she bought new tennis shoes. Likewise, with Martin Rodbell, a cell biologist, was kind of fading in his career when his long career of papers finally hit home. I knew him a little, as an acquaintance, and his Nobel didn't inflate his ego at all. He shrugged and said, "A champion tennis pro earns this much in an afternoon." He was the same guy before and after.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  48. cosmicfolklore

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    The first I had heard of the link to nicotine and Alzheimer's and Parkinsons was on the radioshow here years ago. I asked my grandmother's doctor about it when she was in her final days, and he was an expert in his field, and he had never heard of such a thing. It could be that in smoking communities we have made a bigger deal out of this study, because it supports something we enjoy, whereas everyone else has their eyes on some better strategy that might actually have long term benefits.

    Just like we all hold that 1964 Surgeon's General report so dear, because it fights back against anyone who lumps us in with cigarette smokers, but that does nothing for all of the friends we lose at 45 to 50 of lung disease, heart attacks, and cancer, day after day.

    One little study... against reality.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  49. olkofri

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    I've even heard them say that they would not say *anything* at all positive about *any* smoking since it was all bad to a degree.

    You've heard correctly. Did we see this study's results all over the news in the same way as the "Helena Heart Attack Miracle"?

    Posted 4 months ago #
  50. brian64

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    Just like we all hold that 1964 Surgeon's General report so dear, because it fights back against anyone who lumps us in with cigarette smokers, but that does nothing for all of the friends we lose at 45 to 50 of lung disease, heart attacks, and cancer, day after day.

    So you're saying you have had some number of friends who died at that age range as a direct result of either pipe or cigar smoking and had never been cigarette smokers?

    And you're suggesting this is common place among us ("day after day"). I personally have never known anyone fitting what you've described.

    I'm wondering who else here has had the above described experience? Is this really happening day after day?

    I guess all of us on this forum who are over 50 are really on borrowed time.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  51. cosmicfolklore

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    So you're saying...

    No, no, no... well, yes, that was what was on my mind, but if your going to be all "is this the absolute truth" then... only one cigar smoker friend has died recently that I know was only a cigar smoker. A few others... questionable. But, the guy was a business owner on my block that was a restaurant flipper.

    I just keep seeing that phrase pop up, and when I look around at my pipe club, I can't help but think, "Dear God, if we bunch of geezers outlive the non-smokers; have mercy on everyone's soul."

    Posted 4 months ago #
  52. olkofri

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    Well, when I started medical school in AD 1994 there was another fellow and his girlfriend in the same class. Both were heavy smokers. Our classes were 2-hour long with breaks of 10 minutes every hour. We'd hang out outside the classroom during breaks and many would have a cigarette. This fellow, whom I'll call B, would invariable have a cigarette every break, before class, and after class. B dropped out at the end of the first semester. His girlfriend lasted about two more terms before dropping out too. It was through her that we learned, about a year later that B had died of lung cancer. He was between 19 and 21 years old.

    Of course, we immediately thought of B's havy cigarette smoking habit when we learned of his passing. We didn't quit.

    I've uncles well in their senior years, who've smoked since their teens and don't have lung cancer. Neither do their spouses or relatives, who've been exposed to that 'dreadful' second-hand smoke for decades.

    I also knew a man who died from lung and bone cancer. He wasn't a smoker, nor was he exposed to second-hand smoke.

    Way more to it than just the deadly tobacco leaf.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  53. brian64

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    @Cosmic: Ok, thanks for the clarification...I suspected that was the case...but you also added the line "One little study... against reality".

    That was some pretty thick hyperbole (even if unintended) but it does reflect precisely the utterly ridiculous perception that the public at large has due to all of the propaganda.

    All I can say is, to this day I have never read or heard anything credibly substantiating the contention that moderate pipe or cigar smoking (without inhaling in the manner typical of cigarette smokers) has any significant associated health risks for most people. Is there some risk? Sure there is. But, IMO, very little.

    What I hate is anti-smoking folks refusing to admit that different forms of tobacco use have different levels of health risks.

    And it's not only anti-smoking folks, but a number of members here have also continually claimed or implied that there is no distinction in health effects between different forms of tobacco use. To me they just seem to desire to align themselves with the mainstream views rather than being objective about it for whatever reason. Some people are just not comfortable bucking the tide, regardless of what the facts or evidence may be.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  54. ssjones

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    Brian Levine interviewed a Fred Hannah for the radio show. He is a researcher at a University in Colorado. He wrote a Masters thesis on the benefits of moderate doses of nicotine (or a similar type research project). It was a great interview.

    Al

    Posted 4 months ago #
  55. woodsroad

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    I don’t watch much TV anymore, so I missed this cartoon.
    I did enjoy “Pinky & the Brain”, though.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  56. warren

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    I think a few, some?, many?, here need to quit trying to segregate different health concerns so as to fit their narrative to allow for smoking pipes. The few studies which support nicotine as a possible assist in brain disorders address just that. I do not believe even one of those studies ever suggested an equivalency between smoking and medically administered nicotine. If there was such a study I missed it. And, at my age, the gradual diminishing of mental acuity is a concern.

    Some studies suggest chemical elements in red wine are efficacious to one's health. Those same studies now add that the alcohol is not a positive. And therein lies the conundrum, positive chemicals vs the known hazards of alcohol intake. Nicotine vs carcinogens is the same type of conundrum except the chemical, nicotine, is provided for the "lab rat" in a purer form, minus the carcinogens. The carcinogens are the concern. The burning of the leaf!

    The same is true with the "smoking relaxes me" argument. Anything you do to divert your mind from stressors will help you relax. Smoking, model trains, jogging, reading, musical instruments, fishing, a nap, etc. can all be used to assist in keeping one's sanity. But, none of them address the stressors and most, excluding smoking, work as well as any other diversion. It's all in your mind set. And, judging from the angst exhibited by some here, smoking seems to case some stress rather than relieve. I'm speaking to all of those desperately seeking a rational justification for smoking.

    I've written (ad nauseum by now, for some), just embrace the rebellion, the health threat, the slings and arrows of the "antis" and ... enjoy the smoke. We all, I believe, deserve one wee vice, carefully chosen, weighing the risk and reward, as we plod on to our inevitable demise.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  57. brian64

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    Brainy Cigarettes

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7Doplw1Tww

    SCIENTIFICALLY ACCURATE™ PINKY AND THE BRAIN

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSGbLxbiODo

    Posted 4 months ago #
  58. davek

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    My feeling is that there are benefits to nicotine, and that a pipe is less harmful than cigarettes. However, the degree of both is certainly up to question. The cost benefit ratio could still be skewed seriously to the cost side with a pipe, I dunno. You can't say a pipe is as bad as cigarettes, personal experience belies that. However, saying that a pipe is nearly harmless is certainly wrong too. That leaves a lot open in the middle of those two scenarios.

    With a pipe, my experience is that how much you smoke makes a big difference, with a few bowls a day being a negligable health risk and smoking every hour or more (like I unfortunately often do) actually being much worse for you.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  59. derhammer

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    Just would like to offer some perspective.
    I have been a cigarette smoker for about 15 years and have been smoking pipe exclusively for almost 3 years.
    During the whole time I was smoking cigarettes, it is a constant for me having either left of right nostril blocked by some kind of snot (please pardon the morbid description )
    Now ever since smoking pipes only, I notice that the nose is very very clear. I can breathe normally again. This convinced me that pipe smoking is better, at least in my case. I even tried the hypotheses by smoking cigarettes in some days and it was justified since either nostril was again blocked. Right after when I changed to only pipe smoking again my nose went clear once more.
    I am not sure if it's a mental thing but this has been my experience. Which is why I am very glad to have found pipe smoking

    Posted 4 months ago #
  60. bassbug

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    I think warren had it exactly right.

    For most smokers, regardless of how they achieve it, its about delivering nicotine to the blood, that's the addictive component. If you can do that without inhaling smoke, at least not a lot of smoke, you're reducing the harm. Pipes do that, but lets not confuse harm reduction with beneficial.

    Any kind of smoking means you ingest/inhale some smoke. Smoke has carcinogens in it.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  61. cosmicfolklore

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    That, and I think that a lot also has to do with all of our other habits. If one is not very active, overweight, and maybe drinks also, then that offsets everything else. Not to mention the stresses that most of us men go through as we get older. women too, not to exclude...

    Posted 4 months ago #
  62. warren

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    Probably the single most important issue in smoking and health is also the most elusive to quantify, is your genetics. A quick, couple of generations back, check for certain illnesses in the old family tree might help to figure risk/reward. But, with all the other factors we are exposed to, quantifying risk is really tough. I firmly believe that the genetic makeup really determines how well, and for how long, your body can fight off the ill effects of smoking. Too much sun, smoke, stress, and any number of other disease causing chemicals can cause the body's immune system to overload and fail. So any reduction of risk is beneficial but, it's still mostly genetic. The body and it's disease fighters generally wear out as we age. Some were born with weaker immune systems, some stronger. So, because every body/system is different, living environments differ in exposure to toxins, placing one's faith entirely in some research paper or, even a dozen, is probably a waste of one's time.

    I'm adopted and have no idea as to my genetic makes nor the health history of my "tree." It saves time as I simply mark that section of the medical forms as unknown. But, I'm also totally unaware of hereditary problems I may be susceptible to. With a pacemaker in the near offing I am being made aware of what my main concern should be.

    All actions have consequences.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  63. hawky454

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    The key is in moderation. I’m sorry but you pipesmoksrs that only take your pipe out of your mouth to shower are risking health concerns, period. I think smoking a pipe in moderation is actually good for your health. Everything is bad for you in excess! There are a lot of people that have problems eating candy habitually so let’s target those people and leave the poor pipe smokers out of it.... oh wait, I’m also one of those people, let’s move on to the next group, carnivores! Whohahahahaha! The point is, that it’s silly that we have a collective bunch of folks that tell adults what they can and can’t do to their own bodies, no adult wants to be babied and that’s what they are doing to us, babying us.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  64. warren

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    no adult wants to be babied

    Millions of adults would prefer to have government/the boss/a co-worker making all/most decisions for them, check various election results. Look around, I bet you can identify many family members, co-workers or neighbors who can't/won't make decisions. They need TV ads, parents and/or the input of friends/acquaintances, etc before deciding on who to vote for or even such trivial matters as to which blend to open next or what pipe to buy.

    How many of us dread having to respond to, "Does this dress make my arse look too big?" Or, "Should I bid on this pipe?" Sure, some are simply trying to learn but, there are those, a not an unsubstantial number, simply lacking the ability to trust themselves or are too lazy to do the necessary research. A lot of people cannot be bothered making decisions, serious or trivial. "It's just tooo hard. I might screw it up!"

    Posted 4 months ago #
  65. mso489

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    Responding to loaded questions from spouse, partner, or other family member is an art. The late author Robert Penn Warren said at a reading that the mode of talking with a spouse was indirection, which is often true, but this must be combined with a strong sense of honesty, a real balancing act. Which is, incidentally, a paradigm for almost any successful conversation. To the ass questions, try: It is not as flattering as most of your clothes.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  66. davek

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    "No baby, your ass makes those pants look big."

    Posted 4 months ago #
  67. hawky454

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    Millions of adults would prefer to have government/the boss/a co-worker making all/most decisions for them, check various election results. Look around, I bet you can identify many family members, co-workers or neighbors who can't/won't make decisions. They need TV ads, parents and/or the input of friends/acquaintances, etc before deciding on who to vote for or even such trivial matters as to which blend to open next or what pipe to buy.

    How many of us dread having to respond to, "Does this dress make my arse look too big?" Or, "Should I bid on this pipe?" Sure, some are simply trying to learn but, there are those, a not an unsubstantial number, simply lacking the ability to trust themselves or are too lazy to do the necessary research. A lot of people cannot be bothered making decisions, serious or trivial. "It's just tooo hard. I might screw it up!"


    You’ve made a very good point and your point is part of the reason I’m not much of a “people” person.

    Posted 4 months ago #
  68. warren

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    I’m not much of a “people” person.

    You and me both! Perhaps we are part of the problem with our attitude. Shouldn't we be helping people with these decisions, giving the benefit of our wisdom?

    Posted 4 months ago #
  69. brian64

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    no adult wants to be babied

    Well, apparently some do...and even get paid for it:

    'Adult Baby' in California Wins Right to Social Security Disability Checks

    REDDING, Calif. -- A 30-year-old California man who wears diapers and lives as an “adult baby” can keep his $800-a-month Social Security disability checks, the agency ruled.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/adult-baby-in-california-wins-right-to-social-security-disability-checks

    Posted 4 months ago #
  70. User has not uploaded an avatar

    frozenchurchwarden

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    Those same studies now add that the alcohol is not a positive

    https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.CIR.102.19.2347

    I’ve yet to read anything saying that moderate alcohol consumption has negative health effects. Every example I came acress used excessive consumption as the negative.

    Posted 4 months ago #

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