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New Obamacare Premium Hikes for Smokers

(76 posts)
  1. flyguy

    flyguy

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    If all of the new state laws and taxes aren't enough, look at THIS .

    I guess Nancy Pelosi was right; we had to pass the bill to find out what was in it.

    “Apples for walking, and a pipe for sitting.”
    ― Samwise Gamgee
    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. sothron

    Perique

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    I've been spending more than I'm fully comfortable with on tobacco in anticipation of depraved, Canada/UK style taxes. Over the long term, those taxes will take a bite out of blenders pockets as more people cut back purchases and fewer people take up the hobby. This may not have dramatic impact on the big guys, but could hurt the smaller blenders, in some cases causing them to halt production or sell to a big player.

    Sad.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. ace57

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    Stay smoking and pay pay. Quit smoking get fat and pay pay. They got it covered ether way.

    U.S.M.C. (SEMPER FI)
    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. sothron

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    What upsets me about this (on the premium and tax side of the issue) [and this is not meant as a political comment, just reality] is the unscientific and purely political measures we use to determine who pays what. For example, look at the chemical intake of the average Westerner in terms of their diet: preservatives, corn derivatives, and any number of artificial ingredients. But the producers of these chemicals contribute big, big money to the campaigns of all of our politicians - we won't be banning wood pulp or HFCS any time soon, nor will we be taxing it or increasing premiums on consumers of these products. But pipe smokers will pay, and be thrust into the same category as other tobacco users (like cigarette smokers).

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    Anonymous

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    "According to the Associated Press ... starting in January of 2014... because of tobacco penalties in President Barack Obama’s health-care law ... insurance companies that opt to enforce the full amount, the change could mean as much as a $5,000 premium spike per year for older smokers. Those who are clinically obese [those over their ideal weight by 20 to 30 pounds based on body fat index] could face penalties as well."

    This is popping some eyes in the whole political spectrum. For liberals, normally strong supporters of ObamaCare, some are now worried because, according to the AP, they feel that "tobacco and calorie-control measures place a disproportionately heavy burden on poor people."

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. sothron

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    "And another thing!" Seriously though, the obesity thing is another ultra-grey area. What is "obese"? Sure, we know it when we see it. But how does the state determine this? BMI? BMI is a joke -- completely disregards those who are athletic, weight lifters, etc. It's a very blunt instrument. So will everyone have to report for visual inspection before determining their premium classification?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. lonestar

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    Sorry, I cannot comment without offending.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    BMI is a joke -- completely disregards those who are athletic, weight lifters, etc.

    Ideal weight can be evaluated correctly by trained professionals who will take the sex, age, body fat percentage and body type into consideration. The U.S. Army, for example, developed such a system and it worth quite well (of course some of the heavier solders didn't agree with me though).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. rotschefeller

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    I live in europe and over here we have all the high taxes on anything "luxury" (i.e., not necessary, VAT) and socialist medicine, it's all a nightmare. Stock up on your pipe tobacco now, American friends, and avoid getting sick at ALL COSTS!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. zonomo

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    Again, not a political comment but as soon has you hand your health care over to the Gov'mt, they will have the perceived right to regulate your behavior, what you can and can't eat/drink. Eventually it will be what you can and can't do (motorcycle skydive, etc). Nothing new here folks. Its the law. All these issues were brought up before but ignored. We voted them in so we should look in the mirror if we have complaints.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. brian64

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    I guess Nancy Pelosi was right; we had to pass the bill to find out what was in it.

    Yes, and just in case anyone is not aware, she really did say that. Boggles the mind.

    “Bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.” – George Carlin
    Posted 1 year ago #
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    instymp

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    But what about Non Smokers that smoke Hippy Cabbage? Not talking down either. As I smoke, drink, overwieght & old.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. flyguy

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    Why do they lump pipe and cigar smokers with cigarette smokers. Sounds like a one size fits all policy.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    Why do they lump pipe and cigar smokers with cigarette smokers. Sounds like a one size fits all policy.

    I'm not actuary, but it would seem to create a bigger "high risk" pool, thus increasing the extra premium cost for all smokers resulting in more money for the insurance company and their ability to claim this also reduces the premiums of non-smokers as well.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. flyguy

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    I'm not actuary, but it would seem to create a bigger "high risk" pool, thus increasing the extra premium cost for all smokers resulting in more money for the insurance company and their ability to claim this also reduces the premiums of non-smokers as well.

    In other words it's all about the money and the politician's time-honored practice of robbing an unpopular minority to give to the more popular majority.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    In other words it's all about the money and the politician's time-honored practice of robbing an unpopular minority to give to the more popular majority.

    Or, we could say it's to help pay for the considerable extra cost for those extra jumbos who eat too many Bic Macs and super-sized fries but can't afford to pay for their own health care.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. cortezattic

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    Disgusting. The world is truly in a miserable state.

    I find myself sitting idly on the line dividing past and future,
    as if I could kill time without injuring eternity. -- Thoreau
    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. bigboi

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    Well that is just awesome I wonder if they are going to hike up Obama's premiums because he smokes cigarettes?

    “I believe that pipe smoking contributes to a somewhat calm and objective judgement in all human affairs.”
    -Albert Einstein, 1950
    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. joshwolftree

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    so I looked it up I'm six one and 31 my "target weight" according to the Military is listed as between 140 and 180, in basic I dropped below the minimum, and I'm currently at 205ish that puts me in both high risk categories "fun fun" and at 180 you can count my ribs

    The true measure of a mans worth is how he chooses to chance his mortality
    Junior Member of the Black Bloods
    Posted 1 year ago #
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    bschoenb

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    I love the New Health Care Plan..... or at least I should; since the majority has spoken in the last election, we should live with the Grand Plan of our dear Leaders.

    Resistance is Futile; you will be assimilated... We are the Borg

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. rhogg

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    Ideal weight can be evaluated correctly by trained professionals who will take the sex, age, body fat percentage and body type into consideration. The U.S. Army, for example, developed such a system and it worth quite well (of course some of the heavier solders didn't agree with me though).

    I failed every Army weigh in I ever took. They just looked the other way because they all knew I was one of the fittest men(boys) in the entire battalion. If you utterly decimate the PT test, and blow by everyone in the run yet fail the "tape test". You begin to wonder how the Army comes up with such crap. They definately must have left out the cro-magnon consideration in their measurements. My weight and height told them I was fat, so they taped me which said I was fat. You could pinch me anywhere and realise I was merely covered in a thin layer of skin tightly stretched over wild animal.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. locopony

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    Elections have consequences. All were forewarned of the past two so either band together like the gun owners or stuff it in ya pipe and smoke it.

    Continue to vote contrary to your own way of life. That is all.
    Good day.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. zonomo

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    I wonder - how do "they" know you are a smoker? Did Obamacare include a provision to install cameras in every home?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. mikephillips

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    I wonder - how do "they" know you are a smoker? Did Obamacare include a provision to install cameras in every home?

    That'll come via a "Tell on your neighbor" incentive plan. IRS already does this to an extent.

    I see hap-hap-happy days a comin'.

    Anybody remember the wartime song "We did it before and We'll do it again"? Bet nobody ever thought that could be applicable today, and in reference to a second American revolution.

    People are getting fed up, and changes will come about, one way or another.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. cynyr

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    I agree with Lonestar!!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. simnettpratt

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    I also am with lonestar and cynyr; can't comment or I'll be banned.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. mikephillips

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    I agree with Lonestar!!

    Me too, but I usually comment anyway. Sometimes I probably shouldn't, but I figure if people are that easily hurt by words on a screen (or spoken in person) they should be staying at home, wearing blinders and earplugs.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. zonomo

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    Geeze I didnt think of that mikephillips but you are right. What an amazing deterioration we're witnessing here with our freedoms.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. rlunderhill

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    The 50% that voted this guy in are the smokers and obese. They will get what they get. I'll smoke my cigars and pipes and enjoy my remaining years in tranquility. I'm just a party of one on this planet. All I want is to be left alone. Nothing more.

    Sometimes people have to experience the wrath of a wrong decision to realize the right decision.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. zonomo

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    Tranquility. Sounds nice....

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    I'm currently at 205ish that puts me in both high risk categories "fun fun" and at 180 you can count my ribs

    I failed every Army weigh in I ever took. They just looked the other way because they all knew I was one of the fittest men(boys)

    I'm sure any professional medical evaluation to determine a specific person's "ideal body weight" would be individualized based on several factors.

    The system to identify Freddy Fitt from Joe Chubbo would probably look something like this: http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r600_9.pdf

    Posted 1 year ago #
  32. judcole

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    I went looking for more information, and found an article in the Denver Post.

    According to that article, right now, insurance companies can refuse to cover smokers.

    In today's world, insurers can simply turn down a smoker.

    So, if your choice is between no health insurance because you are a smoker, or having health insurance,but paying higher premiums than a non-smoker, which do you choose?

    Thought in the early morning, solace in time of woes,
    Peace in the hush of the twilight, balm ere my eyelids close
    Rudyard Kipling
    Posted 1 year ago #
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    So ... "it is what it is, whatcha gonna do, eh?"

    I dunno, seems something more than a shrug may be warranted.

    I'm retired. I have a lot of time, so I nag my Congressman and Senators (they must be tired of seeing my Emails, "Oh it's HIM again! LOL). May not do much, but I do feel better voicing me views and reading their replies.

    I also belong to five rather vociferous organizations including three military groups, a gun rights group, and a cigar rights group. Strength in numbers. The dues, IMO, are worth the money and again, I feel like I am more a part of the solution.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  34. sothron

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    I doubt the opinion of any medical 'expert' given the complicity (or ignorance) of the medical profession as it regards food additives, hormones, derivatives, and general dietary advice.

    (disclaimer: not a fatty making excuses- 6'1", 180 lbs, ~10% body fat at 40 yrs old)

    The AMA is completely bought and paid for by the industrial food lobby and the health, weight, & psychological issues that result make those of smoking look mild by comparison. This renders their opinion on anything fairly suspect. And the permanent entrenchment of industrial food lobbies, massive campaign contributions, the suburbanization of American culture, and the unwillingness of Americans to get their hands dirty renders us generally incapable of serious purpose when discussing this issue.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  35. reichenbach

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    My dad told me about this over the weekend and then when I saw it on MSN of all places, I became furious.

    zonomo: They can check nicotine with blood tests. And some will say, how can they compel someone to give there blood without a warrant? On the one hand, they might. On the other hand, and this more likely, what will happen is that everyone will deny smoking (as there is no distinction between cigs, cigars, and pipes), the CDC, WHO and American Cancer Society will declare victory and then outlaw tobacco since there is now no one who 'abuses' it anymore therefore there is no demographic for it anymore.

    We can only hope this generation of hypocritical politicians is short lived and common sense will prevail soon. The people in charge now have done things and now condemn them and then stand behind them depending on who is doing them (or vice versa and this is intentionally non-specific due to political prohibition).

    I believe I have the right to live and die as I wish but I suppose that is not a politically popular idea. I can not smoke at work, fine, I cannot smoke at all on my own time, that is approaching tyranny. The MSN article I read included commentary about the 20 some odd states that have smoker protection laws and then someone deriding them, mocking them as if people who use tobacco were a legitimate minority that deserved protection.

    If one had to chose the lesser of any number evils, what does one choose? Is it too early to start making t-shirts that state, 'Keep your laws off of my body?

    Think about it.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  36. sothron

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    It stands to reason, Reichenbach. Unfortunately, we are a nation of hypocrites. And this is nothing more than chickens coming home to roost. How many outraged smokers have, in the past, supported regulation of that which they personally find distasteful and, through their vote, pointed the loaded gun of state in someone else's direcrion?

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    how can they compel someone to give there blood without a warrant?

    Easily. Such tests are called a "compliance requirement for issue of policy" (insurance) and a "condition of employment" (being hired for and/or keeping a job).

    I believe I have the right to live and die as I wish but I suppose that is not a politically popular idea.

    Oh, we'll be able to smoke in a closet somewhere (if there's no one else within a mile of us with a snowball's chance in hell of being affected) and as long as we pay the price -- exorbitantly high cost of tobacco, health insurance, and can deal with the considerably reduced options as far as a job is concerned.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  38. gray4lines

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    I read today, concerning a tobacco ban on a campus (which is another issue) in response to some question like, "why are there no smoking areas?"

    Answer, "We do not wish to imply that tobacco use is acceptable"

    So, my hobby is unacceptable? Like a pariah. What's unacceptable is someone telling me what is unacceptable for me

    Posted 1 year ago #
  39. brian64

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    Here's a real nice addition to the discussion courtesy of the AP.

    First paragraph from article:

    NEW YORK (AP) -- Faced with the high cost of caring for smokers and overeaters, experts say society must grapple with a blunt question: Instead of trying to penalize them and change their ways, why not just let these health sinners die prematurely from their unhealthy habits?

    You gotta love that phrase..."health sinners". And, of course, there is never any distinction made between cigarette smokers and pipe or cigar smokers.

    Full article:

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MED_HEALTH_COSTS_REALITY_CHECK?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-01-26-10-03-12

    Posted 1 year ago #
  40. zonomo

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    CDC, WHO and American Cancer Society will declare victory and then outlaw tobacco since there is now no one who 'abuses' it anymore therefore there is no demographic for it anymore.

    Never happen. Why? Because tobacco use is MONEY to the Gov'mt. If you think how much 1 pack raises in taxes, do some math, they would never give up such an easy tax base. Never ever.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  41. zonomo

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    I read today, concerning a tobacco ban on a campus (which is another issue) in response to some question like, "why are there no smoking areas?"

    Answer, "We do not wish to imply that tobacco use is acceptable"

    So, my hobby is unacceptable? Like a pariah. What's unacceptable is someone telling me what is unacceptable for me


    Wait.. what happened to tolerance? I thought every and all ideas equally valid, every decision made has a moral equivalence, etc. No? That really is the central problem with anyone accepting what the State deems as acceptable. Sooner or later, they'll hit something you really do care about.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  42. cynyr

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    Some years ago, I realized that I am going to die.

    Shouldn't have been a surprise, since it's happened to so many people already, but it was. Logically and calmly, I told myself that someday, my life functions will cease and my body will rot away.

    I'm going to die. To be dead. No more fun, no more love, no more chili and hot tamales. Man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets. Something will come next, I believe, but exactly what I'm not sure.

    Until that day, however, I am a free man. I have rights as a free man that kings and governments cannot take away. They may pass a law, but my rights are inalienable. No matter what the majority may rule, my rights still exist, and I may still exercise them. As a free man.

    Until that day, I will exercise them. There are a lot of things they may do to me, but I will still (among other things!) enjoy my pipe in the place of my choosing. If that shortens my life, so be it, for I have realized that I am going to die. No amount of careful living will stop it, no amount of government will postpone it.

    I will do as I choose. I am a free man.

    (However, my rights as a free man do not entitle me to break rules in someone else's space. I tried very hard to be apolitical, but if this doesn't meet the standard, delete it and accept my apology.)

    Posted 1 year ago #
  43. mikephillips

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    Here's a real nice addition to the discussion courtesy of the AP.

    First paragraph from article:

    NEW YORK (AP) -- Faced with the high cost of caring for smokers and overeaters, experts say society must grapple with a blunt question: Instead of trying to penalize them and change their ways, why not just let these health sinners die prematurely from their unhealthy habits?

    You gotta love that phrase..."health sinners". And, of course, there is never any distinction made between cigarette smokers and pipe or cigar smokes.

    The full truth is that it's actually cheaper to take care of heavy cigarette smokers and the morbidly obese in the long run than it is a grass-eating health freak. Those health freaks usually live much longer, and often need very high levels of health care for years before they finally give it up. The problem with this information is that it's in direct contrast to what every state and attorney involved in the tobacco suit fiasco said to the entire world, and nobody wants to admit to this truth publicly.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  44. tanless1

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    With obamacare in place to save us all, doe that mean we can abolish all other taxes( such as schip) that were instilled for the same purpose?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  45. brian64

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    The full truth is that it's actually cheaper to take care of heavy cigarette smokers and the morbidly obese in the long run than it is a grass-eating health freak. Those health freaks usually live much longer, and often need very high levels of health care for years before they finally give it up. The problem with this information is that it's in direct contrast to what every state and attorney involved in the tobacco suit fiasco said to the entire world, and nobody wants to admit to this truth publicly.

    The article actually addresses that idea at one point:

    "For example, some studies even suggest that because smokers and obese people die sooner, they may actually cost society less than healthy people who live much longer and develop chronic conditions like Alzheimer's disease."

    IMO, the most insidious aspect of this particular article is that it is implying that people could or should just be DENIED certain types of health care altogether based on "health sins", such as smoking. Sounds like a slippery slope toward "death panels" to me.

    With obamacare in place to save us all, doe that mean we can abolish all other taxes( such as schip) that were instilled for the same purpose?

    What? Government actually ABOLISH an existing tax? Surely you jest.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  46. reichenbach

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    Taken from the AP 'article' Brian posted:

    [quoteFrom an economist's perspective, there would be less reason to grouse about unhealthy behaviors by smokers, obese people, motorcycle riders who eschew helmets and other health sinners if they agreed to pay the financial price for their choices.[/quote]

    I thought that is why I was playing taxes to begin with. Or I guess they are too busy 'saving the children' with that money. In addition to that, young people generally pay into their health plan while hardly using the doctor (and Medicare, too), so am I not paying for my 'health sins' now?

    Logically, I think so. What the 'powers that be' think? Probably not.

    rothnh: I can't wait to having a clandestine smoking closet.

    zonomo: All of that wasn't directed at you, I feel I should say. I started ranting and I had been enjoying some scotch so I got carried away. And I agree with you about the easy tax money but when enough people quit/die, they are certainly laying the groundwork for a 'fat tax' or calorie tax and that will be a perpetual money maker as well. Kinda of like how we are abating asbestos now but when that's gone, we're going to be abating fiberglass insulation and so on.

    sothron: Political expediency is b*tch.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  47. rlunderhill

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    It's 10:05 PM and 13 below zero outside. It's a great evening to warm up to some Jack and Mac Barens HH Highland Blend Limited Edition. This is a 3.5 oz tin, 442 of 500.

    Life is good. I'm alive. I can't worry about the stuff I can't control. Life's to short for that.

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    mustanggt

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    Whatever the government deems evil it will hound and demonize those that practice that evil. They will stop at nothing for the power and control they crave. They will change the criteria to suit whatever is politically correct at the time. The BMI can be manipulated any way they want to suit their needs. This whole thing will create a whole new class of criminals, us, who are trying to enjoy our lives as we see fit. It will also turn our Dr. into a rat fink as well as our neighbors. Look at the Soviet Union and how neighbors and friends ratted on each other to keep the heat away from them and to curry favor with the powers that be so they wouldn't end up in the gulag. Sowing the seeds of fear will keep most people in line.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  49. planetary

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    Look, if a country decides to have the government foot part of the bill for the healthcare of its citizens, then it has an interest to maximize people's health and minimize their costs. Any higher risk activities are financially suspect -- the incentives are clear. If you didn't want this incentive structure you should have tried harder to have your voices heard in the debate.

    (FTR, I strongly favor universal healthcare as a principle of civilization.)

    On a positive note, as someone who can afford to pay for pipes and tobacco, I can also afford to pay for the likely premium of being insured while enjoying the risky hobby of my choice. After all, it is a choice I am making, so it is unfair for my well-informed individual choices to cause my neighbors bills to go up.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  50. dragonslayer

    dragonslayer

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    Lines and Proof;
    This whole ideal is so full of holes it will be impossible to manage, but of course a chance for yet another high paid committee, we can never pass the chance to create those!
    At what line are you a smoker? A cigar with someone who’s just had a baby? Having a cigar/pipe while watching a football game? My wife works in a bar that smoking is legal (yes they still exist) she is surrounded by people smoking for 8-10 a day, probably works out to half a pack. Chewing tobacco, does that count? What about vapors, inhaling mist, tobacco extracts and nicotine.
    If you don’t check smoker in the box, what are they going to do? Have people swear out forms that you smoke, who pays for this? Blood/piss test people? Nicotine takes 24 hours to be processed in your body.
    There’s no possible way doctor is going to break confidentiality, which would lead to an insane amount of law suits, and lost licenses. The doctors would never think of filling out any forms regarding patients. They can tax us, but I got a feeling lawyers would have a field day with data gathering of customers. Getting tired of my rights that millions have died for, trampled by the “cause of the day” mentality. I think there’s plenty more things that needa fixin up at da’ house.
    V
    V
    V

    “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.” Patrick Henry
    Posted 1 year ago #
  51. cigrmaster

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    I personally am looking forward to Jan 1 2014 when the insurance companies can no longer base my insurance rates on pre existing conditions. Right now I have to buy what is called guaranteed insurance which is very expensive, come Jan 1 I will be able to buy insurance like normal people. Obama has done a great thing for the people who have to buy insurance individually. Health care costs are ruining this country and Obama is doing something about it. When I was married with my 4 kids, I was paying 1600.00 a month to cover my family, it was more than my mortgage. Things cannot continue like they have been.

    Harris
    Posted 1 year ago #
  52. spartan

    Spartan

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    @Harris

    That's outrageous. Good to hear things are going to be better for ya insurance-wise!

    "I was born to lose. So I'll die to win." -Breaking Benjamin
    Posted 1 year ago #
  53. drwatson

    drwatson

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    Another angle. Smoke,overweight,drink...So what about if no one really fights back and these all pass. Then when may they start taking blood samples to test our DNA to see if we pre-disposed for any abnormality, heart,cancer,etc...Oh wait didnt one country try something like this before? I think we beat them in WW2? Can anyone help me remember! I'm I fat lazy American and we forget so fast!

    John
    Posted 1 year ago #
  54. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Anonymous

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    I think what bothers me the most about all this is the fact that, under the Affordable Care Act is that government bureaucrats will be making decisions on our health care. It's unweildy and IMHO, won't work. I think what we should have done, if we want socialized medicine, is to call it what it is and model it on a system that works -- there are many countries with "good" ones -- France comes to mind.

    Anyway, since no one listed one, here's a link to read all about the Affordable Care Act -- the good, the bad, and the ugly: http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-facts.php

    Posted 1 year ago #
  55. misterrogers

    misterrogers

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    I've got to agree with rothnh here. I'm not sure I'm against the idea of some sort of socialized medicine, but what's been put forward in a rotten mess. Just as I hate the idea of government bureaucrats and politicians telling people what they can and can't own or marry, I hate the idea of them telling people what they can and can't put in their mouth. If I wanted someone to tell me how to do everything, I'd move in with my grandmother or hire a nanny.

    Now, I've noticed a tendency for this forum to get rather silly.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  56. peckinpahhombre

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    When I was married with my 4 kids, I was paying 1600.00 a month to cover my family, it was more than my mortgage. Things cannot continue like they have been

    Holy shit!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  57. cigrmaster

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    I agree that there are many aspects to the act that need work, but at least it is a start and it is something. We cannot continue to let private insurance companies continue to raise premiums by 20 percent per year while giving less coverage year after year. If we were to let these companies continue unchecked, millions more will be unable to afford insurance and there by putting the burden on those of us who do pay. I am tired of paying for people who just walk into any emergency room get treated and stick the rest of us with the bill. I was recently in the emergency room for kidney stone pain for 4 hours, they shot me up, sent me on my way and charged me 14,000.00. It is insane. That bill should not be more than 800.00 bucks but because they have to eat all the expenses of people who do not have insurance or refuse to buy it, they nail my ass to the wall. I am so sick of carrying people who can afford insurance but refuse to. They can afford a 400.00 a month truck payment, or 500.00 a month towards their credit cards, but they expect a free ride when it comes to health insurance. I have no problem with the poor who cannot afford coverage, it is the ass holes who can afford it but choose not to that makes my blood boil. I don't want to hear people whine that the government is making them pay for coverage, they should have been doing it on their own log ago.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  58. cigrmaster

    cigrmaster

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    peck, one good thing about my divorce was that my insurance went down 500.00 a month when I was able to take her off. The exact numbers were 1622.00 before and 1138.00 after

    Posted 1 year ago #
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    flmason

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    It is also sad that hospitals charge for and give only brand name medications. Most doctors allow patients to take genetic medications and the insurance plans encourage generic use as well by charging lower co pay amounts.

    Something should be done on both the part of the government and also the insurance company side to change this so that the patient can benefit overall.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  60. zonomo

    zonomo

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    Well said peckinpahhombre.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  61. brian64

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    Like all other major legislation in DC, “Obamacare” was written by corporate lawyers (hence Pelosi’s infamous quote referenced above). And, IMO, the idea that it will be good for the avg person, or in any way cut into the profits of the big insurance companies is sadly mistaken:

    Real Danger of “Obamacare”: Insurance Company Takeover of Health Care

    http://www.nomiprins.com/thoughts/2012/11/10/real-danger-of-obamacare-insurance-company-takeover-of-healt.html

    Posted 1 year ago #
  62. 4noggins

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    Harris & Planetary,

    I want so much to totally agree with you in public, but if I get involved in this conversation, I might loose another customer.

    Rich
    4noggins.com

    Posted 1 year ago #
  63. bobpnm

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    I'm not even going to pretend to be smart enough to make any kind of informed guess about how it will all turn out. I do believe that most legislation passed at state and federal level ends up so long and complicated that the original intent gets lost in a confusing mess of individually offered amendments. This bill is so complex, implementing it is going to be a work in progress for years. That means elections will come and go. The players will likely change. Who really knows how much of the original legislation will ever be fully implemented? If that's the case we may never know how much was good or bad. I believe the biggest risk is that 5 years from now, we are all still trying to figure out what to do about rising health care costs, it's affect on our lives and the economic health of our nation. Just my two cents worth. - bp

    Posted 1 year ago #
  64. User has not uploaded an avatar

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    Who really knows how much of the original legislation will ever be fully implemented? If that's the case we may never know how much was good or bad.

    Let's start a pool. All throw in $20.

    I'll toss my guess in: About 100 of the 2,000+ pages of the Affordable Care Act will be implemented and actually remain law after the 2014 elections.

    The real problem is that the 12,675 new federal employees that were hired to implement and supervise the Affordable Care Act will be impossible to get rid of. I suggested that at least half of them could be transferred to the EPA to count the particles of sulfur as they come out of the smoke stacks at coal burning plants in the midwest, but my Senators didn't get the joke.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  65. kashmir

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    Let's hope in four years we can vote the bum(s) out.

    The pipe eases you into the present moment - savor your pipe & you'll savor this moment.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  66. papipeguy

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    I pay $2,300 a month to cover the 3 of us in our family and I'm retired. How much more can I be hurt?

    Blowin' smoke since 1970.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  67. philobeddoe

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    This isn't a Democrat or a Republican issue, this is a money issue. Our representatives are in the pockets of the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. No amount of " Voting the bums out" will make any difference. The next bums will be just as corrupt as the current ones.

    "So it goes." - K.V.
    Posted 1 year ago #
  68. pstlpkr

    Lawrence

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    BMI is a joke -- completely disregards those who are athletic, weight lifters, etc.

    Damn right!
    My weight is perfect....
    Only problem is I'm 2 feet too short.


    "Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put." Winston Churchill
    View Lawrence  Whitcomb's profile on LinkedIn
    Posted 1 year ago #
  69. bigboi

    bigboi

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    So they want to raise insurance on tobacco users but turn around and do stuff like this? Hmmm
    Monsanto Act

    Posted 1 year ago #
  70. foggymountain

    foggymountain

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    Just wondering how they are going to identify the smokers.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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