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Need to Clear the Air on Something

(47 posts)
  • Started 5 years ago by Pipe Novelist
  • Latest reply from Kevin
  1. matchstickman

    Pipe Novelist

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    So anyone who reads this forum with any regularity will probably notice that I don't post a lot lately. In fact, over the course of the last few months I have quit coming here entirely due to something that has really been bothering me. Now before I relate the details, don't take this as one of those "Oh my gosh I hate all of you and hate this place and screw all of you guys because you all suck and I'm leaving and never coming back threads." This is not one of those at all. We have a fine group of people on this forum and a few have become close friends and I still think this is a good place to come for advice and to chat about our hobby. However, I need to clear the air on this so everyone knows the truth and is aware of the situation.

    Some months ago, out of the blue, I had received a private message from a member. I won't name names, but this person knows who they are. I am assuming the private message was sent in regards to a tobacco trade that we had started to arrange but could not agree on the terms, but we canceled the deal on good terms and everything seemed fine. Several months went by and I heard nary a word from this individual, until I received said Private Message. The PM in question was incredibly hurtful, threatening, and at one point the lives of me and my loved ones was threatened. I contacted Kevin and told him about the PM I received. His response was to contact Lawrence and let him handle the situation. The next day, said member was booted from the forums, which I was OK with. The situation seemed to be pretty well under control, and I thought nothing of it.

    Fast forward to a few months after that, I saw the the forum member who had sent the hateful message had been allowed to return. When I asked about this (I won't mention who I talked to), I was basically just told, "Well we're giving this person a second chance and keeping a really close eye on them." I was not happy with that answer, and was not happy that said person was allowed to return after making such hateful comments, and I frequented the forum less and less, because I felt that my safety and respect for my well being was just kind of brushed off with "Well things happen. Too bad I guess." (This is not what was actually said, but just a generalization of how I felt the situation was handled.

    Take what you will from this, but I do not feel that this is right. I just feel that everyone should know that hateful and hurtful comments and threats were made, and the guilty party basically got a few months "forum probation" and then was allowed to return pretty much consequence free. The member in question has not attempted to contact me via PM, but the situation still makes me feel a little uncomfortable knowing that people can make threats and say hurtful things and still be allowed to post on the forums. And for the record, I took a screenshot of said message. I didn't want to post it out in the open but I will post a link where anyone interested can look at what was said. I am not doing this to cause drama or insinuating that I am going to leave the forum, but I wanted everyone else's take on it. Here is the link to the PM screenshot (warning: it is pretty graphic and hateful).

    Threatening Private Message

    Posted 5 years ago #
  2. anthonyrosenthal74

    anthonyrosenthal74

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    Anyone making comments like that should not have been allowed back. My two cents.

    Arrrrr, shiver me timbers! International Talk Like a Pirate Day is September the 19th!!!
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    Posted 5 years ago #
  3. captainsousie

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    Wow...I honestly...wow. I can't believe someone like that would be allowed back. You're a good guy from what I've seen and I don't think you deserve to have to watch a guy like that stay around. I hope Kevin will be willing to explain why something like that was allowed to stand. Worrisome.

    Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
    Posted 5 years ago #
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    lordape

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    Interesting. Perhaps I've just spent too much time on the internet, but that wouldn't bother me all that much. Don't get me wrong, the guy who sent the message deserves to be removed from the forums and not allowed back, absolutely. People throwing around threats on the internet. It's never going to go anywhere so why worry?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  5. dcrguns

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    IMHO you are completely correct. I don't think I would have been as civil as you.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  6. misterlowercase

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    Yay!

    Another safe topic!

    I say fuck that guy!
    He's an obvious dumbass scumsucker from his pm.

    Pipe Novelist,
    I've greatly enjoyed your posts here, indeed, your lush fertile writing style has something of a rare quality and it adds greatly to the forum. I would hope to see you continue on in the face of this stupidity and keep contributing. Don't let this cro-mag spoil it for you, don't let his hairy knuckles knock the Hemingway outta you!

    I will add my support in saying that the sent pm is a vile transgression of proper etiquette and the offending member should be banned again , plain 'n simple. That sort of ruffian posturing certainly has no place amongst us PMbrothers and the involved dimwit should be ashamed of his gangster behaviour.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  7. petes03

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    Wow! I would not have been as civil as you! I completely agree, this person should be exiled.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  8. dervis

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    That should never happen, if it does happen should not be overlooked. I think it is a good thing to have put this out to the community.

    "You have to be a man first before you're a gentleman. "

    John Wayne
    Posted 5 years ago #
  9. teufelhund

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    Just... Wow... Really over a bit of tobacco. There are ways to express disappointment and that is not an appropriate one. I've always thought that even when things got a little heated around here there was a general consensus to be a gentleman or lady first and foremost. Sadly this kind of thing does seem to happen on the internet too often. All I can say is that this statement made in person is grounds for a lot more than forum banishment and I hope they have matured enough to send you a formal apology and would have been a stipulation of their participation on the site if it were up to me.

    Smoke your pipe and be silent; there's only wind and smoke in the world. - Irish Proverb
    Posted 5 years ago #
  10. daveinlax

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    Sorry it happened but don't let some faceless dope staring into a screen run you off. People take boards and their "friendships" way to seriously. A fact life of the boards are people come and people go. It's NBD. This board seems to have an average turnover.

    P.S. I'd out him

    Posted 5 years ago #
  11. bigvan

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    I had a similar experience, I'm afraid. Not NEARLY to the point of yours, Novel, but a current member bragged about beating his dog with a log he'd tried carving into a pipe. I brought it to the attention of a mod, the post was removed and I was told they'd keep an eye on him.

    Whether or not these people (I refuse to call them "men") mind their manners from now on is irrelevant. Their behavior is unacceptable (especially in the case of your antagonist, Novel) and we're better off without them.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    steampoweredboy

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    Plus, if you don't say who it is, how are we going to know who to avoid for tobacco trades?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  13. 05venturer

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    Thanks for bringing this to the attention of the rest of the forum members Pipe Novelist.
    Just saying if I was in your place I would be upset with the way this was handled also. I personally would post the name of the forum member to get them out of hiding so the rest of us know what a POS he or she is.
    I am sure they are reading this and if they had any morals at all would speak up and remove themselves from the forum, if not they should be removed.
    Just my 2 cents

    Kent

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    If the facts are as presented, it is highly disturbing that, in spite of management having been provided with this information, this low life, unnamed cretin actually remains in our midst.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  15. taerin

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    You have showed amazing restraint in not pointing this person out, however they do not deserve to be here and if they are still here, they should be booted immediately. There's no way someone just "reforms" after sending something that hurtful and threatening, sorry but it just doesn't happen! I'm frankly amazed the mods let them back in, that wasn't just a bad decision, it was the ramblings of someone very disturbed. I say let him come and find me, I will show him the pointy end of his worst nightmare.

    "The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time."
    Mark Twain
    Posted 5 years ago #
  16. matchstickman

    Pipe Novelist

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    This thread has been much better received than I thought it would be. Thanks to everyone for their support.

    For the record, the reason that I have not disclosed the name of said individual at this time is that I am still hoping that something can be done to correct this. If action is taken, then it won't matter who it is. However, if no action is taken or the situation isn't made right, then it would be worth it for either a mod or myself to post who it is so that the person can be avoided. I didn't want to come out and openly say any names until the facts were known and the mods and/or Kevin had a chance to respond.

    As for the OP, I feel I should clarify one thing: I don't feel as though my ACTUAL well being and safety were threatened in any immediate way, and fear was not the reason I avoided the forums. The way that the situation was handled left a bad taste in my mouth and just chose to stay away from the constant reminder of the things that went on behind closed doors, so to speak. Anyway, thanks again to everyone for their support. Still interested in hearing what a mod has to say about all this.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  17. cigrmaster

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    That kind of pm should never be allowed and the person who sent it should be banned in my opinion. Who is to say that now the buy/sell/trade room is open again, he will not pull this kind of crap on someone else. I also think you should out this person.

    Harris
    Posted 5 years ago #
  18. timely

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    Pipe Novelist, in all the time I have been a member here I have found your posts
    informative, and enjoyable. I am so sorry that this has happened to you.
    You should out the person so others know who to avoid.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  19. anthonyrosenthal74

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    I agree he should be outed... the members need to know who he is. I say let it play out for now and see if the mods will speak up about it or not. If not, just put his name out.

    I say let him come and find me, I will show him the pointy end of his worst nightmare.
    it seems you and I think a lot alike, Eric.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  20. pylorns

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    The internet brings out the trolls. I have run several forums - and its pretty standard to ban for said period of time etc. Thick skin helps. Seriously the guy who PM'd you after I saw that.. and the bad grammar all I could think of was this:

    But what he really is...

    Posted 5 years ago #
  21. riptide

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    That is just sick. How could a person like that be given an Okay to come back in.

    Charles D. Wilemon
    Posted 5 years ago #
  22. quincy

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    I'd actually like to hear from Kevin or one of the Moderators why he was allowed back. I just posted a pipe to trade and to be honest, I'm a little leery of doing it after reading this thread. I think Pipe Novelist is right in the way he feels. This person doesn't deserve this forum. It's a privilege not a right...

    Posted 5 years ago #
  23. yohanan

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    I didn't think minors were allowed to participate on the forum to start with.


    Smoke What You Like, And Like What You Smoke...Regardless Of What Anyone Else Thinks...
    Posted 5 years ago #
  24. taerin

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    I don't think the mods should say why they let him back in, they should ban him outright, this ain't right, not one person isn't in agreement here. The kind of guy that would be upset this much by it probably ain't the kind of guy to egg someone on enough to post this kind of crap, even so there is no amount of egging on that would justify this type of response. I would like to think we are all gentlemen at heart here (even though we don't always act like one).

    It's funny anthony how you say we think alike, that 74 in your name is my lucky number since I was a few years old. I have no idea why, the number just occurs in my life right before really good things happen.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  25. pipeherman

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    I would have reacted in the same way Pipe Novelist. The idea of the forum is to share an interest in the hobby of pipe smoking. Yes there are bickerings at times, even I have been involved in them during my short stay. But as long as they end on good terms everything is fine. This here on the other hand is certainly not a "bickering" I would hope that some action is taken against this individual. Threats no matter how unrealistic should never be tolerated.

    Keep puffing and keep posting

    Herm

    Posted 5 years ago #
  26. anthonyrosenthal74

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    It's funny anthony how you say we think alike, that 74 in your name is my lucky number since I was a few years old. I have no idea why, the number just occurs in my life right before really good things happen.

    Eric... that was just darn right creepy...

    Posted 5 years ago #
  27. rcstan

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    That is just .... well.... fucked up.

    We all say things in the heat of the moment, drunk, stoned, the dog died or some sort of half excusable situation. But if you do that once, you won't have a seat at MY dinner table anymore.....

    Posted 5 years ago #
  28. weezell

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    Sounds to me like someone with a drinking problem...

    "the weez"...
    Posted 5 years ago #
  29. peckinpahhombre

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    Who is Matchstickman?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  30. kashmir

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    Wow. Sorry to hear this happened to you. The internet can be rough at times. But I think you handled it well. And I'm glad to see the support you're getting here on this thread.

    The pipe eases you into the present moment - savor your pipe & you'll savor this moment.
    Posted 5 years ago #
  31. taerin

    Eric

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    So Anthony, your lucky number is also 74? That is really wierd! I thought I was the only one lol... Maybe we were abducted by the same aliens?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  32. yohanan

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    Who is Matchstickman?

    That is Pipe Novelist's original forum name.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  33. numbersix

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    That is pretty nuts and I don't blame you for wanting to get it off your chest. I would be pissed as well that he was let back in, and like you, I doubt I'd revisit very often, if at all.

    Still, as damning as the evidence is, I always believe in hearing both sides of a story (no matter whose side I am hearing). Assuming the facts are as you present them, I hope Kevin and the mods will rethink their decision or at least explain why they felt he deserved a second chance.

    "Be seeing you"


    Posted 5 years ago #
  34. matchstickman

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    I'm glad that this has been as civil as it has been, I really didn't know how it would be received.

    I have already had a couple of PMs asking me who the culprit is, but I am still waiting to see what comes of the situation before I say any names. Also, thanks to those who showed support in this situation. I realize that the internet brings out this kind of behavior (I used to frequent Xbox live quite a bit, that shit was way worse), but given the atmosphere here and the reputation of all our members, I expected that this sort of thing wouldn't be brushed aside in the manner that it was, and the whole thing just really, pardon my language, really burns my ass. I realize that internet bullies pop up every now and again, but this is why measures are supposed to be in place for this kind of behavior. Thanks again everyone.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  35. anthonyrosenthal74

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    Actually, Eric 74 was the year I was born

    Pipe Novelist. I hope things are cleared up on this issue pretty soon. I rather enjoyed reading your posts as well as others.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  36. quincy

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    Well dude, I've always enjoyed your posts and hope you stick around!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  37. taerin

    Eric

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    Actually, Eric 74 was the year I was born

    Your ancient!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  38. dhizzy

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    Pipe Novelist is a stand up guy. I have done SEVERAL trades with him during the time I've been here. He even just up and sent me a gift once out of the kindness of his heart. Anyone that treated a member like him in a manner such as that ought to be sent packing. I've seen other forum members banned for less.

    By the eternal! There is a man whose form should be cast in deathless bronze and the statue placed in every college in the land. It is not book-learning young men need, nor instruction about this and that, but a stiffening of the vertebrae which will cause them to be loyal to a trust, to act promptly, concentrate their energies; do the thing - "carry a message to Garcia!" Elbert Hubbard "A Message to Garcia" 1899
    Posted 5 years ago #
  39. wcannoy

    Walt Cannoy

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    Here is the link to the PM screenshot (warning: it is pretty graphic and hateful).

    What? This really happened???
    Wow... Just, wow.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  40. sothron

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    Weezell: agreed. Or drugs.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  41. cortezattic

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    That PM was (literally) outrageous, and a misuse of the website's resources. My initial reaction was to suspect
    drunkenness or some sort of bi-polar disorder problem. But no matter, the mod(s) should reconsider banning him
    from further use of the website. I wonder how this situation would evolve if the offender publicly apologized to
    Pipe Novelist?

    I find myself sitting idly on the line dividing past and future,
    as if I could kill time without injuring eternity. -- Thoreau
    Posted 5 years ago #
  42. undecagon

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    Pipe Novelist: Wow. I'm shocked by the situation.

    I agree with the above. Culprit should be outed, it'd be nice if that were done by a Mod though. Also, he should be forced to apologize. Also, he should then be banned. Or, she.

    "I said NO camels, that's FIVE camels...can't you count?!"
    AJHvibes.com
    Posted 5 years ago #
  43. piperl12

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    I am perplexed, recently a forum member was outed on here for fraudulant behaviour and apperantly will be facing criminal charges. This person was banned. Not too long ago a netorious meerchaum salesman was banned for comments very similar to what Pipenovelist was subjected too. So my question is what is the criteria for being banned? In many states and provinces the OP could take the evidence and have this unamed person charged with uttering a threat. In fact much less has landed teens in trouble with the law in Ontario recently. I would encourage our mods to re-examine their decision. I think if taken to tribal council this person would be voted off the island. Oh and just to be clear if the unamed tough guy would like to turn these same threats on myself or my family the least of your worries friend would be getting the boot from a pipe forum. Not all pipe smokers fall under the older kindly gentleman. Given the thread recently on daily carry items I venture a guess that I am not the only one that has a violent streak when my family is threatened even in posturing. Lets do the right thing mods and show a good man that this crap will not be tolerated. We have your back pipenovelist!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  44. brian64

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    That PM really is disturbing. There is a very serious line that is crossed when it comes to threats...especially threats such as are in that msg. It’s one thing when people get angry over something, or even resort to name calling and profanity (which is all bad enough)...but it’s a whole different ballgame when stuff like that is said. Something seriously wrong there.

    “Bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.” – George Carlin
    Posted 5 years ago #
  45. crk69

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    Wow.... What a childish and immature PM sent to someone who always contributed to posts.. Seems we are beseiged by low lifes and thieves in our hobby as of late.. Pipe Novelist, you are the better man and I for one would not like to see you go... However, it will ultimately be your decision alone and persons like this should not be allowed on the forum... Recent change in legislature here in Texas has now included "Non Verbal" threats as harassment ie: "Mean Mugging".. This statement to you via PM could possibly be a violation in your state...

    Proud Member of the BlackBlood Society
    Member NASPC
    Posted 5 years ago #
  46. pstlpkr

    Lawrence

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    Kevin has asked that we close this thread (for now) until he has a chance to review it.

    We Mods don't believe it to be our place to comment on its contents.
    However; we do believe that this could quickly get out of hand.

    So, Kevin will review this on the morrow, probably sometime after mid-day (which will be his earliest opportunity).

    Thanks everyone.


    "Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put." Winston Churchill
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    Posted 5 years ago #
  47. admin

    Kevin

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    Ok folks. I'm here. This was brought to my attention late last night while I was at a charity fundraiser for paralyzed vets, which then followed into a late-night afterparty. Plus, I also had an overnight guest from out of town. That is why I'm just getting to this now. Thank you for your patience.

    First, something that generally irks me is when people refer to something like it happened much more recently than it really did.

    It was NOT "Some months ago..."

    The PM in reference goes back to 4/27/12 - that's 1.5 years ago - (17 months).

    Here are the rest of the facts without opinion.

    1. The PM of 4/27/12 was brought to my attention. I banned the member that sent it and deleted his account. (I am the only one that can delete and ban members. Mods cannot.)

    2. The banned member pleaded with me to let him back, and had other individuals contact me asking to give him another chance.

    3. Policy is that once you are banned, you can't come back.

    4. No one that has ever been banned has been allowed back, knowingly, or on purpose.

    5. On 9/23/2012 (over a year ago), somehow the guy was able to sign up again, and the mods and I all missed it until he had been around for some time, maybe a few weeks to a month or so.

    6. He has been a model citizen in the forums ever since.

    Those are the facts.

    I do not know why it took over a year for this to be brought up as an issue, but since it has been that long, it pretty much negates it as an issue as far as I'm concerned.

    That's the final word.

    Check Out Our - Pipes Podcast
    Posted 5 years ago #

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