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mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,454
I know this one has been raked over quite a bit, but it may be worth another round. Can we pretty much assume that many pipes stamped from a particular country, and famously associated with that country, may well have been partially produced elsewhere? Contractors in Italy, France, Spain, and Poland seem to be busy making stummels and maybe stems for pipes branded and often stamped as made in Denmark, England, Canada, and elsewhere. I'm not identifying a scam. Many of the pipe makers readily admit this, Eric Nording for example. Others are shy and secretive, so likely Dunhill has some work on some pipes down outside UK. I was disillusioned for a while, since part of the fantasy of pipes for me was having items original to various pipe producing countries. But now I'm accepting. It's the market place and if it doesn't pay, the product can't be offered. I still assume that artisanal pipes are made by one person or only a few in a stated place of their residency. Does it matter? Is everybody happy, as the old saying goes? I still insist that MM cobs are made entirely and only in Washington, Missouri, and Dr. Grabow pipes are made only in Sparta, North Carolina ... only and forever. I don't care what else you know, don't tell me about it.

 

fishnbanjo

Lifer
Feb 27, 2013
3,030
63
You bring up a good point mso489, Dunhill had their stummels turned in France until some time after WW I if I remember right and Canada patent pipes made under license and patent by Blatter & Blatter during WW II.
Lots of pipes are made from stummels that were rough shaped and still took quite a bit of work to make it a pipe. Some pipe stems are purchased pre fabricated to fit a certain pipe. All in all I think all of these have been made known by the Pipemaker offering these pipes for sale.
I guess the ones that really make you scratch your head are the basket pipes one finds in a B&M since no real name often accompanies the pipe. Regards.

banjo

 

Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
43,399
109,161
It is a good debate though. It seems country of origin means country of completion.

 

jefff

Lifer
May 28, 2015
1,915
6
Chicago
I am in the car bizz and the actual difference between a Toyota Camry and a Chevy Malibu is non existent in terms of components. Yet one is American and the other Japanese.
Like it or not, barring a huge worldwide pandemic, it is a global economy. Only the smallest producers can be homegrown.

 

jefff

Lifer
May 28, 2015
1,915
6
Chicago
Ha!.. either one of those is a GREAT car, if what you want is reliable transportation. I am in Service at a GM dealer. We never have a problem with Vibes. Last week we had one come in that was running like shit. The guy who wrote it up was all " A Vibe? we never have trouble with Vibes". It turns out to be a cracked vacuum hose. 99.00 and the car left fixed.
If anyone is looking for a reliable used car an 09 Vibe would be the ticket.

 

philobeddoe

Lifer
Oct 31, 2011
7,432
11,707
East Indiana
Also, I do expect the Artisan pipes I buy to have been made entirely by the stated artisan or at least in his or her shop, perhaps with some work done by an apprentice. As to factory pipes, its become a crap shoot, in this global economy, many companies source parts and labor from elsewhere, it's the new reality we live in.

 

Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
43,399
109,161
Also, I do expect the Artisan pipes I buy to have been made entirely by the stated artisan or at least in his or her shop, perhaps with some work done by an apprentice. As to factory pipes, its become a crap shoot, in this global economy, many companies source parts and labor from elsewhere, it's the new reality we live in.
This

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,744
45,270
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
"Made In England" or London Made" or any of its variants do not ensure that a pipe bearing that stamp was made in England or London, etc. Pipemaking has always been international. Briar was sourced from a variety of countries. Vulcanite was sourced from a variety of countries.
In the 19th and early 20th centuries, St Claude was the center of the briar pipemaking world and the primary source for bowls that went to British manufacturers for finishing and mounting. Contemporary artisans buy briar cut in Italy and rod stock made in Germany and other countries. Meerschaum came from Turkey and Africa.
BBB had a factory in the US and Kaywoodie had a factory in the UK. Dunhill had factories in the UK and France and also subcontracted a portion of its output, at one point to Canada, and in the 1990's to Italy. Comoy's had factories in the UK and France.
It's called international trade, and it's been around for thousands of years. It's just that the size, amount, and complexity of it has increased enormously in recent years.

 

mawnansmiff

Lifer
Oct 14, 2015
7,414
7,330
Sunny Cornwall, UK.
The stummels used by Dunhill are first worked in Spain as are those for Blakemar Briars. They are only 'finished' in England. As to where Dunhill source their briar, well that's anyone's guess but I would wager they use whatever they can get hold of at the best price irrespective of which country it was grown in.
I'm a bit old fashioned perhaps but if something is stamped 'Made In England' then I think it very wrong to have part of the work done in an entirely different country.
There is a certain cachet to having 'Made In England' stamped on your pipe that is diluted by these practices.
Just my tuppence worth :puffy:
Regards,
Jay.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,454
My glasses frames are designed in Denmark but made in Japan. The same design and manufacture division happens with a lot of pipes. Also, design can relocate and outlive the designer, as with Stanwell, now in Italy, still doing factory pipes designed by Sixten Iversson.
The Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe are great little cars. I am a driver of four-bangers, which are economical, durable, and parkable in the city and suburb traffic I navigate. I have only owned German and Japanese cars, but have often started at dealerships of American makes. I have always been rebuffed, and I've found that strange. I did go underdressed one time. I'm not particularly noticeable or objectionable, visually anyway. I don't wear my avatar fez. I spent thirty minutes waiting for a Mercury Sable salesman to talk to me, but he was busy talking to another dealership salesman. There's always been some problem between me and sales staff at American dealerships. One sales guy told me if I was going to buy an American car, I'd better buy a service warranty with it. I always end up at another dealership and buy German (my first car) or Japanese, where the sales staffs have been eager and obliging and willing to deal on price to some degree. Something going on there, over many decades; I'm not a special case, this has to have happened to millions of people over time. Puzzled.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,744
45,270
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
There is a certain cachet to having 'Made In England' stamped on your pipe that is diluted by these practices.
Barling, who not only carved their own bowls but also harvested, seasoned, and milled their briar, tried to have the Merchandise Marks Act amended in 1928 so that pipes stamped "Made In England" etc would be required to be made in England. The rest of the tobacco trade lined up against them and the amendment failed to pass. People love an unearned advantage.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,454
sable', it's a noble cause and one that Barling can at least remember with pride. In 1928, it would have been somewhat enforceable, but today, it would be a farce. In commerce, it's not the evil governments, it's transportation, digital devices and networks, and market forces. If you can knock half the price off your stummels by having them carved in some other nation, how are you going to compete not doing that? Unless you live where it grows, you have to begin by buying briar overseas, for starters. But a nobel history for Barling.

 
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