"Considering the mass shooting in CT a few weeks ago, you should have no problem respecting the wishes of the shop." I would respect the owners request and evaluate what's more important to me. My right to carry or my desire for the product being sold. I have coped the text from an earlier post because this tragedy makes me want to carry more than ever, not the opposite.
-
-
Subscribe
------------------
------------------
----------------- -
Poker Deck
Pipes Magazine » Pipe Tobacconists - B&M's and Internet Retailers
My Local Tobacco Shop Does Not Want My Business
(93 posts)-
Posted 4 months ago #
-
I would respect the owners request and evaluate what's more important to me. My right to carry or my desire for the product being sold.
One's right to carry and one's desire for a product are not mutually exclusive. If you want the product, then remove the gun. If you choose not to remove the gun and therefore not patronize the business, fine. No need to whine about it (I'm referring to the OP here).You can't carry in a post office, so I guess you don't buy stamps. You can't carry in a school, so I guess you don't go into your kid's school for events or teacher conferences. You can't carry in a court house so I guess you don't report for jury duty. Given the fact that carry permit holders take off their firearms from time to time (at least they do if they're complying with the law), to single out a private business owner is just plain silly IMO. I agree 100% with the notion of respecting the wishes of the business owner. However, conducting a personal boycott of the business seems hardly an expression of respect.
this tragedy makes me want to carry more than ever, not the opposite.
+1 on that.Since you have to die anyway, you might as well die from something you like.Posted 4 months ago # -
boustrophedon said:
"Writing as I do from England, I am utterly baffled by this thread."Well, I am from Israel, and I think this thread is fascinating and contains several logical points of view. Personally, I agree with those who advocate respect for the wishes of the shop owner and don't see why it would be a big deal for a carrier to temporarily disarm himself - and I'm writing this from a country where lots of folks walk around (thankfully) with UNconcealed weapons (this often includes myself) as well as concealed.
Concerning the whole gun issue (in the U.S.), I think there is a much more encompassing issue you Yanks have yet to address - and it is not connected to the right to purchase and carry, but rather why the U.S., of all developed nations, has such an extraordinarily high rate of violent crime, and with that - such a high incidence of mass murder. Why is the will to inflict violent harm to others - using whatever method - so much more common (proportionally higher) in the 'land of the free and the home of the brave?'
"I'm always easy to please since I'm always satisfied with the very best." - Oscar WildePosted 4 months ago # -
Is it really necessary to make a snarky comment towards the United mutha f*ckin States of America?
You're post is off topic. Welcome to the forums.
"I was born to lose. So I'll die to win." -Breaking BenjaminPosted 4 months ago # -
I am a hunter, reloader, collector, chp holder, and all around firearm enthusiast. My rights don't trump yours no matter how much I value them. If you don't wish for me to carry a weapon onto your property then that is your right, regardless of what I think of your opinions. You must respect others if you wish to be respected. Make friends first. Friends are more important to have than guns. Who knows maybe you can persuade him otherwise at a later date. Just my two cents.
Posted 4 months ago # -
if the shop owner at one time had some altercation in his establishment between two legally carrying patrons i'd understand his reluctance. who knows the mind of another?
i'm of the opinion that everyone thinks they're right, good and knowledgeable, and none of these 3 things are true. and if everyone realized that, starting with themselves, there would be far fewer problems in the world. but then, i'm wrong and bad and don't really know.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I"ve tried not to get in this,?Yadan I respect your country, your countrymen showed us self defense when I was in the Navy, the reason we are so violent when stirred goes back to JOHN PAUL JONES. , ( I have not begun to fight) to the surrounded General in Baston who was asked to surrender, his reply. NUTS , Violence is how we settled our country, right or wrong we help people, who else gives aid when disasters strike the world, AMERICA, Rhogg, you are 100% right, your right does not trump anyone else's right GOD BLESS AMERICA. The old cajun
The Old CajunPosted 4 months ago # -
+100 Cajun
The most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen...not necessarily in that orderPosted 4 months ago # -
Brad, you need to start expressing your true feeelings & quit holding back! Say what you mean.
Posted 4 months ago # -
The US has enough guns for almost every single man woman and child in the country(270M guns in the US). As an American I think everyone should have a gun in their home. I also think you have to look at the size of the country compared to the size of countries in Europe. Now if you look at this link below you will see the US falls in about the middle of the table of homicide rates with Africa and South America having much higher rates, Western Europe having slightly lower rates and Eastern Europe having much higher rates. I think the difference is that our unfortunate incidents are much more publicized.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Edit: Sorry for getting off track of the subject.
Midwest Wood Creations
Be sure to check out Gecko13's handiwork when in the market for any of your pipe accessory needs such as tampers, cabinets, pipe racks etc.Posted 4 months ago # -
One's right to carry and one's desire for a product are not mutually exclusive. If you want the product, then remove the gun. If you choose not to remove the gun and therefore not patronize the business, fine. No need to whine about it (I'm referring to the OP here).
Actually Radio, I think we're saying the same exact thing in essence. Either decide to remove and buy or decide to not remove and look through the window wishing you has some nice toboccao. If its that important, then buy somewhere else.
Posted 4 months ago # -
has such an extraordinarily high rate of violent crime, and with that - such a high incidence of mass murder
I think this is an excellent question. I dont think guns are the problem here anymore then i think cars are responsible for the thousands of deaths per year in drunk driving homicides. So we can pass all the laws we want but that doesnt address the core issue, the moral break down in our country and the devaluation of human life.Old Cajun, I hadn't considered the formation of our country being based upon violence so much as a willingness for violence to achieve freedom. Good point. I think to think about that some more.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I dont think guns are the problem here anymore then i think cars are responsible for the thousands of deaths per year in drunk driving homicides. So we can pass all the laws we want but that doesnt address the core issue, the moral break down in our country and the devaluation of human life.
According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, an estimated 10,228 people died in drunk driving accidents in 2010. The number of drunk driving fatalities has been steadily decreasing over the past 20 years.
Drunk Driving FatalitiesAccording to the Center for Disease Control, the number of firearm homicides in 2010 was 11,078. Firearm Homicides Total gun deaths in 2011 31,940, up by 600 people from the previous year. Gun deaths
It looks like firearms kill a lot more people than drunk drivers. Indeed, they kill almost as many people as all sources of automobile deaths combined. (Note: I did not know this when I started my research.)
Thought in the early morning, solace in time of woes,
Peace in the hush of the twilight, balm ere my eyelids close
Rudyard KiplingPosted 4 months ago # -
@Jud Totally agree but when you compare the number of people killed in all auto related events in 2011 and the number of people killed via firearm's the number is scary close together.
In 2011 32,367 people killed in auto related events. Out of 62 million registered vehicles in the U.S. or roughly 1 death for every 2,000 car's.
Now for guns.
According to the Department of the Interior there are in 2011 "The estimated total number of guns held by civilians in the United States is 270,000,000"
Now 31,940 people killed in 2011 that one death for every 8500 guns. Now if you throw in all the illegal guns held by criminals that number would go way up. According to the DOI "The rate of private gun ownership in the United States is 88.82 firearms per 100 people". So there are enough guns in the us to have 88.82% of every man woman and child to have one.
So 1:2000 or 1:8500 which kills more people on average.
Are the deaths due to gun violence and accidents deplorable and heartbreaking? Most definitely. Do I as a law abiding gun owner wish to do something to see that number drop..YES!
But it's absurd to see that cars (not drunk drivers) kill more people on average by over 400% and yet car makers never hear a peep..
All I'm saying is that when looking at the numbers if it's truly the number of people who lose their life to something, then be fair across the board or people will whine.
Ok off my soapbox..time to pack a bowl..
I have some friends, some honest friends, and honest friends are few; My pipe of briar, my open fire, A book that's not too new.
Robert W. ServicePosted 4 months ago # -
You're lumping in suicides in that number which is almost 20k. How many people killed themselves in their car? You should be comparing the non suicide numbers which is 11078 compared to the drunk deaths of 10,228.
Posted 4 months ago # -
But it's absurd to see that cars (not drunk drivers) kill more people on average by over 400% and yet car makers never hear a peep..
Wow, you must be young. You obviously don't remember Unsafe at Any Speed and the huge furor about auto safety in the 1960s.
Generally they talk about car safety in deaths per 100 million miles traveled. That has been decreasing steadily since 1920. Cars are much safer than they used to be. Transportation Safety (Yeah, it's Wikipedia, but it's solidly referenced.)
And remember, cars have a purpose other than killing things.Posted 4 months ago # -
@Jud LOL busted.. the 60's were before my time..I do know that car makers get regulations passed down on them like airbags, seat belts. Didn't mean to ruffle any feather's..
Posted 4 months ago # -
You're lumping in suicides in that number which is almost 20k. How many people killed themselves in their car? You should be comparing the non suicide numbers which is 11078 compared to the drunk deaths of 10,228.
I did. I gave the number of drunk driving deaths, then the number of firearm homicides. Then I mentioned all causes of gun death and compared that to the total number of auto fatalities. Firearm homicides exceeds drunk driving deaths, contrary to Zonomo's statement. Total auto deaths exceeds total firearm deaths, but the former has been steadily decreasing while the latter has been increasing. Traffic Fatalities NHTSA
Posted 4 months ago # -
When looking at homicides committed with firearms, you really need to discuss where the majority take place, rather than overall numbers. You'll find that the overwhelming majority are committed in areas where handguns are already illegal to carry, concealed or not, areas where there are stricter gun laws than anywhere else in the nation. DC, Chicago, and most other large cities where drugs and gang violence are rampant and uncontrollable, and those who commit the crimes are already breaking laws by having possession of a firearm before ever pulling the trigger.
Comparing overall numbers serves no purpose. You'll likely find that deaths caused by firearms is far less common than deaths caused by automobiles in all but a few areas, and the statistics from those few areas cause the overall numbers to be skewed wildly out of proportion to the reality for most areas. Only in these heavily populated, crime-ridden areas will you see the ratio of firearm deaths to automotive deaths flip-flopped. A perfect example is DC.
Even considering all the above, however, the actual overall murder rate by firearm in the US is only slightly over half that of the suicide rate by firearm.
The right to keep and bear arms in the US is there for a reason. It's there, not only so we are better able to protect ourselves from violent criminals, but also so that we are able to protect ourselves from possibility of a government that may become tyrannical. The best way to ensure a government devolves into tyranny is to remove the ability of it's citizens to protect themselves against it. Whether this seems laughable to some or not, it's fact, and was a valuable piece of foresight the founders of our country were blessed with when drafting the constitution. The indisputable fact that in areas where more people legally own firearms the crime rate is dramatically lower than in areas where few or none are able to legally own firearms is the best proof possible that more gun laws will do nothing except ensure that fewer law abiding citizens own firearms. I think that if a home invader had only a 5% chance of breaking into a home where the owners were unarmed rather than a 95% chance, the home invader might consider a different line of work. The nut who shot up the theater in Colorado..didn't he say he specifically chose that theater because it didn't allow weapons in the place?
All that aside, to address the original poster....I really don't understand the point. You have a right to carry, he has a right to ask you not to do so on his property. Either remove your weapon before you enter his place, or don't enter his place. It's very simple. If you don't want to give your patronage to his place of business because of his political viewpoints possibly being too far left for your taste, that's also your right. I'm ultra-conservative, personally, but I only have a problem with left-leaners when they have a problem with my own viewpoints, and in fact have more than a few friends who are as grass-eating, tree-hugging, liberal, left-leaning as you can possibly get without being horizontal, but we respect each other's opinions and views, simply disagreeing on many things.
Also, this quote: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"....it will be true as long as the human race survives.
Oh, and one last thing: He may not be as left-leaning as you might believe. I do not allow ANYONE on my property with a firearm. The only person I want on my place armed is myself. I even require law enforcement officers to stow their weapons in their vehicle before exiting, on the extremely rare occasion one pulls down my driveway. They didn't like it, but it's my property, so it's my way or the highway.
Posted 4 months ago # -
It looks like firearms kill a lot more people than drunk drivers
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Posted 3 months ago # -
I own alot of guns and am about to get my CCW but it wouldn't bother me to take my gun off to go in a establishment.Who knows why that person doesn't want guns in his shop and plus we need to keep the baccy shops going when we have one close by. All of shops for me are a good hike from where I live.
Posted 3 months ago # -
I don't have a carry permit, but I think I would be very wary of leaving a loaded firearm in the car while I stopped into a store. What if somebody steals the car? Now he's got a car and a loaded gun. Might be a bit of worrying, but I always tend to prepare for the worst, consider all scenarios
Posted 1 month ago # -
It's a slippery slope, after the Boston marathon incident, I don't think I'll be able to carry my concealed pressure cooker any more, or nails for various construction projects I plan on doing. Seriously, come to my city, Winnipeg Manitoba Canada, we've been the murder capitol of Canada for the last 10 years almost. Pretty much all gun violence happens from gang members carrying concealed weapons, and we don't even have the right to bear arms. Gun control in my opinion is hitting the target at least 9 out of 10 times.
Posted 1 month ago #
Reply
You must log in to post.
Back To Top | Back to Forum Home Page
Members Online Now
peter70, puffdaddy, mso489, jah76, dragonslayer, joemcdds, dpkrause, rothnh, paintedklown, tbradsim1, allan, oklansas, boudreaux, kashmir, erichbaumer, hedonaut, tgwilt, rayje589
| Home
| My Page
| Forums
| Events | Pipe Babes | Pipe
Listings |
Pipe & Tobacco Reviews |
Pipe Collecting | Pipe
Videos |
This site, PipesMagazine.com, is not in any way affiliated with Pipes and Tobaccos Magazine.
We are an online magazine & community and do not publish a print version.
| Pipe Manufacturer & Retailer Spotlight | Pipe News | Pipe of the Week | Pipe Smoking Thoughts | Put that in Your Pipe |
Wine | About
Us | Contact
Us | Links
| Privacy
Policy | Terms &
Conditions | Advertising
| Site Map |
| Join the Forum |
| Getting Published on PipesMagazine.com |
All Rights Reserved. Copyright © 2009 - 2013 Right Click Media, LLCThis site, PipesMagazine.com, is not in any way affiliated with Pipes and Tobaccos Magazine.
We are an online magazine & community and do not publish a print version.
We use the SafeSurf Rating System to signify that PipesMagazine.com is for adults only
