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Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
43,413
109,219
A couple of weeks ago, I posted about a moldy tin of Bijou. Opened a second tin, and all was well, and SPC even sent me a replacement tin. Now opening a third tin, original group ordered and not the SPC replacement tin. Same lot date on the tin as the moldy one 4-21-16, and, heartbreak again. No replacement tin desired, just what a letdown. That is such a good blend. :(
http://pipesmagazine.com/members/chasingembers/album/picture/19931

 

andrew

Lifer
Feb 13, 2013
3,043
402
This is why I thought they need to do batch date recalls, until then I'm not chancing it, I could pay duty, get a bad tin, send it back, get a replacement tin from the same batch that's moldy, pay customs, repeat. If this were any other product I could think of there would of been a complete recall. I am disappointed in how this situation has been handled so far and lost faith in laudis and C&D, and a long winded response about how they care and are actively taking care of this won't change that. The problem is documented going back to 2012/13 with Kajun kake, so it shouldn't be a surprise. McClellands makes a very natural product too and haven't had any issues. I almost threw a tin of bijou in my last order, now I'm glad I went with my gut and went on a safe bet

 

philobeddoe

Lifer
Oct 31, 2011
7,433
11,713
East Indiana
They (C&D~SPC) really need to get to the bottom of this....I'm starting to worry about buying any tobacco tinned by them now. I'm sure this was a short term problem, but it really needs to be uncovered as to the cause and more importantly....how they intend to make sure it stops!

 

andrew

Lifer
Feb 13, 2013
3,043
402
@chasingembers why no replacement tin desired? Unless you're after a refund do you make money to throw down the drain?

 

rigmedic1

Lifer
May 29, 2011
3,896
75
I had gotten 2 tins when they first were offered, and I wasn't going to open them, but now I suppose I should. That would be a loss.

 

hawky454

Lifer
Feb 11, 2016
5,338
10,221
Austin, TX
This, unfortunately is why I'm staying away. When your replacement of a replacement is moldy, we've got problems. That's a shame because I really wanted to try Bijou.

 

Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
43,413
109,219
@chasingembers why no replacement tin desired? Unless you're after a refund do you make money to throw down the drain?
Already received a replacement tin for the first, and honestly don't want any more C&D products until this is sorted out. Not in tobacco for money, just enjoyment. Sitting on over 150 lbs of cellar, and just would like this issue solved. Probably only one lot from the above mentioned date, but what of other blends tinned around that date as well?

 

Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
43,413
109,219
This, unfortunately is why I'm staying away. When your replacement of a replacement is moldy, we got problems. That's a shame because I really wanted to try Bijou.
The replacement is unopened, and from a different lot date. Hoping other blends tinned around 4-21-16 were not affected.

 

hawky454

Lifer
Feb 11, 2016
5,338
10,221
Austin, TX
I guess I was referring more to another forum where a member kept getting replacement tins and they were all moldy That's a hassle I don't want to even flirt with.

 

perdurabo

Lifer
Jun 3, 2015
3,305
1,575
Embers, guess you aren't having issues with Black Frigate. That's a cake, right? The cakes and flakes seem to be the issue. I think ClassicalPipes, may have been on to something. I think C&D needs to drop the paper boats. Paper will mold quick.
Question for Jeremy and Company: Are the Paper boats, that the flake and cake come in, treated for mold?

 

swilford

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 30, 2010
208
734
Longs, SC
corporate.laudisi.com
Various stuff guys:
1) Note that the OP said that this was from the same batch as the other tin he had that had mold. That's the only production date we've had reports of mold on for Bijou and we've had very few reports. That production run was 1,200 tins. We've had a tiny handful (total isn't handy because the guy tracking this (Ted) is on a plane right now, but we're talking 3 or 4 tins) from that run with reports of problems. We've smoked dozens from that run ourselves and haven't encountered mold. And at this point, we have to assume that most of those tins have been opened and smoked and it has since been through five more production runs (ranging in size from 240 tins to 1,000 tins).
2) We've already offered to compensate the OP.
3) We've fixed the production problem.
4) A lot of the present consternation is simple a function of the fact that this is news because of CRF. It's sort of like fear of flying. Flying is orders of magnitude safer than driving, but plane crashes are newsworthy and spectacular and car crashes are routine and boring, hence flying seems more dangerous. Similarly, on the heels of us asking for CRF back, it seems like this is all part of some newsworthy pattern, when no pattern exists. The examples brought up in the past few weeks (of which we're up to 10 we know of) are from batches spread across more than two years and (again, aside from CRF) represent something like 1/60,000th of production during that time.
I know it seems like this is happening all over to 'everybody,' but it's sort of like plane crashes in the news: they seem like they happen with some frequency because they tend to dominate the news cycle, but it's really vanishingly rare by comparison to the number of flights globally annually. Similarly, this is on everyone's mind because of the CRF mess made news (which really was our screw up), not because there's anything systemic.
So, I've read a number of comments suggesting various vague calls for us to get to the bottom of this. We have. We've fixed the CRF problem, we've reformulated our mold inhibitor for everything, we ran tests for mold issues on various products in various states and we will happily replace tins with problems. Should 3 or 4 out of 1,200 tins from a production run that had problems negate the experience of the other hundreds of people who didn't encounter problems, smoked it and were happy (me included, having gone through three tins myself)? Especially given we want to replace those tins for the customer.
I get that there's a desire that we 'do something,' but we're already doing many somethings. We've told you what we're doing.
I think it's perfectly reasonable for the OP to be irritated that he had two tins from the same batch that developed mold and we want to help him with the problem. Is there something else, given the rates of failure we're talking about in an organic product, that the OP (or someone else) thinks we should be doing?
Other questions:
The tin insert. It's not the problem (it is treated), but you're correct to spot the pattern. Because of the way the mold inhibitor was formulated pre-CRF for flakes, cakes and plugs, it was more likely to be a problem on the sorts of things that have the tin insert than don't. Of course, we're still talking about edge cases: 1/4000 or lower.
Sincerely,
Sykes Wilford

 

codecreatively

Can't Leave
Sep 17, 2014
329
2
Glad you guys are on it. It's going to take some time to build up trust in the community, and you're right, each new moldy tin detracts from those efforts no matter if those tins dated pre or post fix. Just think of all the C&D tins cellared which now have a cloud of doubt over them. The last thing someone wants to do is open a tin that has been carefully cellared for years and discover it isn't smokeable. Replacing a tin isn't really the same in that sense because you can't replace time.

 

andrew

Lifer
Feb 13, 2013
3,043
402
So if you have it pinned down to a specific batch why no recall? How many tins are unopened sitting in cellars, as this is a cellar series.

 

Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
43,413
109,219
Great to hear, Sykes, so far out of my C&D stash, that's the only one affected. Still a C&D fan though!

 

swilford

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 30, 2010
208
734
Longs, SC
corporate.laudisi.com
So if you have it pinned down to a specific batch why no recall? How many tins are unopened sitting in cellars, as this is a cellar series.
Andy,
While I think I addressed this in my post, perhaps I was unclear. We've had three or four instances of problems. We've had hundreds of instances of no problems. It's an organic product. It's rare, but instances of mold happen in tobacco, regardless of manufacturer. It's just not news most of the time and when it's not news, it's generally sufficiently infrequent from a given customer's perspective that they never become aware of it.
If you, personally, would like to return tins of C&D that you have, we will happily accommodate you. If you, or anyone else, has problems with our product, we'll replace it.
Aside from massively inconveniencing lots of people who have not encountered problems, I'm not sure how we could possibly better accommodate people who encounter problems.
Sykes

 

codecreatively

Can't Leave
Sep 17, 2014
329
2
Andy,
While I think I addressed this in my post, perhaps I was unclear. We've had three or four instances of problems. We've had hundreds of instances of no problems. It's an organic product. It's rare, but instances of mold happen in tobacco, regardless of manufacturer. It's just not news most of the time and when it's not news, it's generally sufficiently infrequent from a given customer's perspective that they never become aware of it.
If you, personally, would like to return tins of C&D that you have, we will happily accommodate you. If you, or anyone else, has problems with our product, we'll replace it.
Aside from massively inconveniencing lots of people who have not encountered problems, I'm not sure how we could possibly better accommodate people who encounter problems.
Sykes
Andy asked about the recall because even if the mold has not germinated, it could still be present in the affected batch. If several moldy tins have been found in particular run, it's probably safe to say that the tobacco produced by that run has a good chance of molding. The responsible thing to do would be to recall the batch, and it would be better to do it just a few months past the batch release than several years down the road when your customers have not only been inconvenienced, but have lost years of cellaring time.
It's interesting that you've only had three or four instances of problems, and Chasingembers has been the recipient of two of them. I think the scope of the mold issue is being vastly underestimated.

 

perdurabo

Lifer
Jun 3, 2015
3,305
1,575
Embers probably bought a 1000 tins, the ratio for mold regarding Chasingembers is pretty high. Am I right or am I right? :nana:

 
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