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Meet the New James Bond

(76 posts)
  • Started 1 month ago by georged
  • Latest reply from cigrmaster
  1. georged

    georged

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    Not a rumor or Internet gag, it's official:

    Dogs live such short lives... and spend most it waiting for us to come home
    Posted 1 month ago #
  2. brian64

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    The relentless PC agenda in Hollywood these days is not surprising...and has become quite boring.

    But the particular thing about this rather crass agenda that prevents me from having any respect for it is the extent to which they are incapable of coming up with original and creative vehicles for their agenda.

    Instead they continue on with this contrived pattern of appropriating longstanding characters and traditions to manipulate for their purposes.

    To those who continue perpetuating this farce I say, come up with something new, original and inspired or go get a real job.

    “Bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.” – George Carlin
    Posted 1 month ago #
  3. voorhees

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    Changing the character that much is suicide. It will be a flop.

    Jason
    Posted 1 month ago #
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    instymp

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    +1 Brian

    Posted 1 month ago #
  5. ashdigger

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    Why couldn't they just say "here's our new agent 014" or some nonsense?

    Ubi Ignis Est?
    Posted 1 month ago #
  6. tbradsim1

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    The Old Cajun
    Posted 1 month ago #
  7. brian64

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    Why couldn't they just say "here's our new agent 014" or some nonsense?

    Because they're only against cultural appropriation when it's not serving their agenda.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  8. jpmcwjr

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    Actress Lashana Lynch Is the New 007 in the Upcoming James Bond. Daniel Craig is still James Bond, but now he has a successor. The James Bond franchise has been in need of a jolt for a while now, and there has long been speculation that once Daniel Craig steps down from the role, he could be replaced by Idris Elba.

    It still could be an elaborate hoax, no??? I could see Elba, who has actual acting chops.

    GQ wrote an article in March listing 15 actors who might fill the role. The only woman was Gillian Anderson.

    I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
    Posted 1 month ago #
  9. ron123

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    It's about as absurd as casting a white woman to play the black panther.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  10. elbert

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    I'm no expert, but I'm not so sure it will flop. Consider;

    1. She isn't playing James Bond. She's playing a separate character taking over the codename "007". Will they handle the hand-off well?
    2. The highest-grossing non-ensemble superhero film of all time was Black Panther. This change will alienate some old-time fans, but might it not engage whole new market segments?
    3. Is there that much of a downside in alienating old-time fans anyway? I'm talking here about the guys who compare every new Bond actor (unfavorably) with Sean Connery. They weren't happy with Daniel Craig, and they weren't going to be happy with his successor. Why aim to compete with the hazy golden memories of somebody's glory days?

    The only question; will they draw in enough of a new female audience to replace the portion of the male audience that slips away?

    If it does bomb they will, like clockwork, reboot the reboot.

    "An thou hast them, smoketh them!" -An Old Philosopher
    Posted 1 month ago #
  11. condorlover1

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    I think this sums up the Bond situation......

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MocGNjjaiog

    Posted 1 month ago #
  12. elbert

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    As a subject for comparison, here's a graph of the overnight ratings for a few recent series' of the BBC's Doctor Who.

    The season 11 spike coincides with the much-poo-poo'd debut of Jodie Whittaker in the title role as the first female Doctor.

    There are a number of caveats here; maybe overnight ratings aren't representative, maybe ratings in general are less useful than they once were, maybe Doctor Who has a fundamentally different and more amenable audience when compared to 007...but the data hardly spells disaster. (Personally I stopped watching when Matt Smith held the role. The showrunners couldn't just let the damn Daleks die.)

    Posted 1 month ago #
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    instymp

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    My Wife still thinks James Bond movies are not true events. And true stories.
    Bless her soul.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  14. redglow

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    I only watch Sean Connery and Roger Moore 007 movies.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  15. brian64

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    Whether or not it's "successful" in terms of dollars is irrelevant to me. And I'm not really interested in Bond movies much anymore anyway...I liked them when I was a kid.

    I just don't like contrivance and double standards. If it pays off well for them then that's just all the worse imo.

    As a counter example, take the Alien series. Now that was something original with a strong female lead and was really good. And even though not all of the sequels were well received, I liked all of the first 4 films a lot...up until Prometheus and Alien Covenant which weren't nearly as well written imo.

    Another example would be La Femme Nikita (the original French one...the Hollywood version wasn't as good imo). Again, original and well written with an impressive female lead.

    There are many others, but this business of appropriation seems to be something new that I find distasteful. Off the top of my head, they've done this recently with Men in Black, Ghostbusters, Captain America, and I'm pretty sure there were others I'm not remembering at the moment...but I expect the trend to continue.

    What's next...Dirty Harriet?

    Posted 1 month ago #
  16. jiminks

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    They wanted to do something similar with Halle Berry's Jinx character years back, but it never got going.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  17. jaytex969

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    I would go to see Dirty Harriet....

    "...But being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow a hole clean through your Mason jar of Esoterica, you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?'..."

    Gunner, Black Frigate. Say "Hello" to my little friend!
    Posted 1 month ago #
  18. morgansteele

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    I'm no expert, but I'm not so sure it will flop. Consider:

    Informed, reasoned and balanced posts.

    1. Elbert, are you sure the internet is a good fit for you?

    Posted 1 month ago #
  19. elbert

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    Informed, reasoned and balanced posts.

    1. Elbert, are you sure the internet is a good fit for you?

    I would go anywhere else if they would take me

    Posted 1 month ago #
  20. chasingembers

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    I only watch Sean Connery and Roger Moore 007 movies.

    +1

    I like coffee exceedingly.
    - H. P. Lovecraft
    Posted 1 month ago #
  21. hoosierpipeguy

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    I think they milked James Bond for about all is worth. I don't blame them for introducing a new concept to see if they can beat a few more miles out of the dead house.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  22. derhammer

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    Why couldn't they just say "here's our new agent 014" or some nonsense?

    +1
    Novelty > redesign

    Pierre
    Posted 1 month ago #
  23. aquadoc

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    Elbert, solid posts.

    As far as Bond, they will never replace Sean or Roger... Daniel Craig a distinct distance behind the 1st 2. But IMHO, Bond should fade into the sunset. The best have passed by. A new reboot could be great. If they do not stick to the original tropes. And as far as PC, is anything PC anymore or just mirroring the reality of a different culture? If I am going for the minority audience, the new generation audience, I am going with someone from the cast of the BP or with Idris.

    "If you resolve to give up smoking, drinking and sex, you don't actually live longer; it just seems that way."
    Posted 1 month ago #
  24. elbert

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    Also I wasn't going to say it, but...but yeah, I'm gonna say it.

    It would be 0014. Fleming did mention a 0011 in one of the novels.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  25. brian64

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    I would go to see Dirty Harriet....

    How about a new all female Good, Bad & Ugly?

    Only need one name change...Blondie and Angel Eyes still works. But the Ugly...Tootsie? Tulip?

    And they just gotta do The Outlaw Josie Wales and the Pussycats.

    I'd love to see another True Grit also...Hen Cogburn.

    Posted 1 month ago #
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    headhunter

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    I wonder if she hooks up with a Bond girl or a guy like Bond.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  27. buster

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    I don’t know? Might be the whisky talking but, I like women quite a bit. Why not a female Bond?

    Think slow, act fast.
    Posted 1 month ago #
  28. danimalia

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    It cracks me up when people think this is about PC. This is about capitalism. All these moves towards increased representations of different races and genders and sexual orientations is about money. The people making the movie do not really care about the demographics of the people they might lose with this move, and they think they can easily make more money by engaging different groups of fans. Not just here in America, but around the world. Frankly, I don't blame them. I think they're making a smart bet.

    Personally, I think it's cool to see different takes on characters. I mean, the traditional James Bond died years ago anyway, when he started drinking Heinekens because of paid product placement. Give me Roger Moore smoking a Montecristo Especial anyway.

    I don’t know? Might be the whisky talking but, I like women quite a bit. Why not a female Bond?

    I loved Widows, which turned the traditional crime movie on its head by casting mostly black women as the leads. Why not the Bond movie?

    Posted 1 month ago #
  29. trubka2

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    Nicely done, Elbert.

    Anyway, nobody could be worse than Roger Moore, right? Oh wait, forgot about Pierce Brosnan...

    Posted 1 month ago #
  30. danimalia

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    Hey, I rather liked the Roger Moore version. Plus, those Montecristo Especiales...

    Posted 1 month ago #
  31. brian64

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    It cracks me up when people think this is about PC. This is about capitalism.

    It's only an assumption on your part that the primary motivation is profit. I think that was true at one time, and still is in certain instances, but in some cases these days the primary motivation is cultural influence and culture creation. I base that opinion on a number of things that I would not attempt to get into here, so we can just disagree.

    All of that aside, based on everything I've heard and read, most of this stuff coming out of Hollywood lately has not done well at the box office...such as the movies I mentioned above.

    But even if it was all being done purely out of a profit motive, that doesn't negate the fact that it's PC. And again, to me the real distinction is between originality and contrived rip-offs...not just whether it's "PC" or not.

    But, nevertheless, there is plenty of info out there supporting the case that PC is not very profitable...particularly in regard to comedy:

    7 famous comedians who said political correctness is killing comedy

    https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversation/sd-mel-brooks-comedians-say-political-correctness-killing-comedy-20170922-htmlstory.html

    And I don't know much about the comic book world, but I've heard it's hurting sales there also:

    Forcing Political Correctness On Employees And Characters Is Killing Marvel Comics

    Their comic books have lost their core of good storytelling, and are instead pandering to social justice warriors and offering phony diversity pushes.

    https://thefederalist.com/2017/04/12/forcing-political-correctness-employees-characters-killing-marvel-comics/

    Is Political Correctness Hurting Marvel Comics?

    https://www.lawliberty.org/2017/10/20/is-political-correctness-hurting-marvel-comics/

    Posted 1 month ago #
  32. danimalia

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    I think we'll just have to disagree, as I have 100% confidence in the idea that Hollywood executives makes their decisions based on profit 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. There was a time when it made financial sense to gear things towards a whiter, American-centric audience. But changing demographics in the United States, particularly among entertainment consumers, and the globalization of entertainment means white people are a small minority of potential customers. Consumers in Asia, Africa, the ME generate massive amounts of revenue, and these companies are increasingly relying on the foreign box office.

    Besides, there are plenty of white dudes that have no problem seeing increased representation of various groups, or re-takes on classics, as long as they deliver the goods from an entertainment standpoint. I don't see a black, female James Bond as any type personal affront against me as a white dude. YMMV. We're all entitled to spend our dollars as we see fit.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  33. brian64

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    I find it very interesting that you just turned it into a racial issue.

    To me that has nothing to do with it. Maybe you see the world in terms of race...I don't and never have.

    Again...it's about originality vs contrivance for me.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  34. sablebrush52

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    It cracks me up when people think this is about PC. This is about capitalism.

    Correct. First, last, and always, it's about making money. I get a kick from reading punditry from people who have not worked in this industry. I've worked in it for 42 years. It's a business, not a cause, and when a production is going to spend $100,000,000 or more on a movie, it's because they think there's a market for what they're doing, and that they're going to make a bundle doing it.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 1 month ago #
  35. jaytex969

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    I don't think that Dan's post tries to turn this into a "racial" issue, rather it examines logically the demographics applicable.

    There's quite a difference.

    Just mentioning factors that include race or culture does not immediately make it an emotional point of contention or a cue to begin the tired, old partisan-like poo flinging.

    IBTL, amigos.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  36. brian64

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    First, last, and always, it's about making money.

    I will concede to the view that profit is always the motive because it's not possible to prove the case here that it's sometimes not.

    So now that that's settled, it's interesting to me that profitability continues to be the focus of discussion here. I guess that's the only terms that people can think in these days.

    For me personally, I base my opinion of any form of art or entertainment that I encounter based on authenticity, creativity, originality, etc. Not on whether I think it will be profitable or not.

    Many of my favorite movies were not very profitable.

    I don't think that Dan's post tries to turn this into a "racial" issue

    Well, you must not be reading the same post I am. Particularly the second paragraph.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  37. jaytex969

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    Sadly, that's one thing about our amoral, modern existence.

    Many truly can not (will not) see things in terms other than financial.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  38. sablebrush52

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    Many of my favorite movies were not very profitable.

    Mine too. One of my favorite films, which I also happened to work on, was A Little Princess Alfonso Cuaron's first US feature film. A beautiful little film, made for very little money.

    As Samuel Goldwyn famously said, "If I wanted to send a message, I'd use Western Union!"

    That's not to say that film makers never have a message they want to convey, but when the budgets are large the first, last, and always concern is will it make a profit.

    Sadly, that's one thing about our amoral, modern existence.

    Many truly can not (will not) see things in terms other than financial.

    When it comes to business, money comes first. During the Depression, my mother's parents owned a bakery, and they never turned anyone away hungry because they lacked the money to buy bread. It cost them their business, and their home. Eventually they built back, but it was touch and go for years. They didn't regret feeding people, but they were hardly overjoyed about losing everything either.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  39. philobeddoe

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    From what I’ve read so far, James Bond will be retiring and she will inherit his 007 license to kill number, but she won’t be the actual Bond character.

    "So it goes." - K.V.
    Posted 1 month ago #
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    ukbob

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    Well that’s going to be disaster.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  41. judcole

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    Interesting idea. Bond (finally) retires, so there is a new 007. Is it gonna fly? Who knows.
    I rather liked the Daniel Craig movies, actually - closer to the spirit of the novels, I thought, then some of the others.

    Thought in the early morning, solace in time of woes,
    Peace in the hush of the twilight, balm ere my eyelids close
    Rudyard Kipling
    Posted 1 month ago #
  42. buck17

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    Looking forward to checking it out.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  43. kcghost

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    Connery. Sean Connery.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  44. tbradsim1

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    Well I’m waiting for Brad Pitt to play SHAFT, Elba to play Davy Crockett at The Alamo.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  45. danimalia

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    I don't want to go any further down the rabbit hole here, but I will just say that I absolutely agree that venerating the profit motive and prioritizing it above all else sucks!

    5 of the top 10 box office performers in 2018 were comic book adaptations. I like some of those movies, but God, I wish there were more good, adult-oriented films. Like Widows, which I may have mentioned I absolutely loved. I'm looking forward to the new Tarantino, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, too, but Christ, it seems like everything is aimed at the PG-13 crowd these days.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  46. pappymac

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    I won't watch it. I don't like any movie where they change the basic mythology of a character which is why I didn't watch a lot of the superhero movies. For the record, in the comic books, Nick Fury was a white sergeant in the U.S. Army during World War II before he became the leader of S.H.I.E.L.D.

    I am glad we have a good admin and responsible moderators.

    Heave to you dark colored ship under sail! Prepare to be boarded!
    Posted 1 month ago #
  47. sablebrush52

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    ...but Christ, it seems like everything is aimed at the PG-13 crowd these days.

    That's the most profitable rating overall.

    I always appreciate it when the stories, characters and writing are engaging, smart, perceptive, and surprising. So I most enjoy the quirky and perceptive films. That's rarely the case with blockbusters or comic book based movies. But they offer a lot of spectacle, and people like spectacle, and they offer fairly simplified familiar versions of good and bad, and people like things simple and familiar. And that adds up to $$$$.

    To quote H. L. Mencken, “No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”

    He wrote that nearly a century ago, and things haven't changed.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  48. chasingembers

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    There seems to be a black is the new red in Hollyweird as well.

    Annie
    Jimmy Olsen
    Mary Jane Watson
    Iris West
    Kid Flash
    Hawkgirl
    Electro
    Ariel (The Little Mermaid)

    Posted 1 month ago #
  49. danimalia

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    To quote H. L. Mencken, “No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”

    Great quote. Do you mind if I ask what you do, as you said you were in the entertainment industry?

    Posted 1 month ago #
  50. georged

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    Do you mind if I ask what you do, as you said you were in the entertainment industry?

    On a sixth grade field trip he once got to meet a movie set production assistant, is all.

    Been livin' off that memory ever since. (kinda sad, right?)

    https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0798716/?ref_=fn_al_nm_2

    Posted 1 month ago #
  51. alaskanpiper

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    Maybe you see the world in terms of race...I don't and never have.

    Many "experts" in academic social science would tell you that this is not only impossible, but actually an offensive statement. I will not offer my own opinion here, as that is bordering on politics and would certainly start a shit storm, but if anyone has interest, simply googling "I don't see color" will lead you to many interesting articles (peer reviewed and otherwise) on the topic.

    This is certainly not the place for debate on such things, but I would recommend looking it up no matter which side you fall on, as it is very enlightening to hear the perspective of various different people on both sides. Certainly a complex issue, and an interesting one to read about.

    "We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that death will tremble to take us." ---Hank

    "Yeah, well, you know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man..." --- The Dude
    Posted 1 month ago #
  52. jaytex969

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    Jesse, you worked on Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure?

    I formally retract any less than honorific interactions we have ever had.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  53. alaskanpiper

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    Jesse, you worked on Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure?

    Haha, I was reading through that movie list as well. Didn't know I could have more respect for the man, but it turns out it is possible.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  54. brian64

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    Many "experts" in academic social science would tell you that this is not only impossible, but actually an offensive statement.

    You just had to go there.

    Ok, since you did, the only intent of my comment was to echo the sentiment of MLK:

    “I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the colour of their skin, but by the content of their character”. -- MLK

    I meant nothing else by it. If someone wants to twist it and read something else into it...that's their problem.

    And no, I'm not going to do a search on "I don't see color". I don't give a damn what the so-called "experts" in academia say about this. These days their job seems to be to intentionally stir up racial strife.

    I know what I meant.

    Your interpretation is your issue...not mine.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  55. bradical

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    This thread has, of course, taken the obvious path. How is this pipe related?

    Don't go chasing waterfalls.
    Posted 1 month ago #
  56. georged

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    How is this pipe related?

    Posted 1 month ago #
  57. alaskanpiper

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    And no, I'm not going to do a search on "I don't see color". I don't give a damn what the so-called "experts" in academia say about this. These days their job seems to be to intentionally stir up racial strife.

    Quite the generalization of academia there, but regardless, if that's how you feel that's fine. Simply pointing out that the material exists for those with any scientific interest. If you have none, I couldn't care less. You do you.

    I meant nothing else by it.

    I know what I meant.

    Your interpretation is your issue...not mine.

    And you are absolutely right, what you mean and what people hear/interpret when you say them can be two very different things. That particular issue is discussed at length in much of the above mentioned material

    But again, it is clear that you are not interested in the topic, so don't find/read it. No skin off my back.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  58. hoosierpipeguy

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    I think she's much hotter than Sean Connery. I'll definitely watch when it makes it to Direct TV.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  59. pappymac

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    I like pie.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  60. brian64

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    Simply pointing out that the material exists for those with any scientific interest. If you have none, I couldn't care less. You do you.

    But again, it is clear that you are not interested in the topic

    Actually I am interested in the topic...and I'm interested in real science.

    I just don't drink the current toxic mix of Academic Kool-Aid Pseudo-Science that they're continually trying to pass off on everyone.

    If you enjoy it...drink up. You can have my share.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  61. alaskanpiper

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    Actually I am interested in the topic...and I'm interested in real science

    Good! It's out there. Rock on....

    I just don't drink the current toxic mix of Academic Kool-Aid Pseudo-Science that they're continually trying to pass off on everyone

    Certainly everyone has different standards when it comes to the value of empirical data and the methods with which it was gathered, analyzed, and the conclusions it leads to. Where you fall on that spectrum is a part of your own journey that I wouldn't presume to relate to or critique.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  62. irishearl

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    I think the chief reason it won't work is that most fans of the movie series were interested in the character, James Bond. The movies were about Bond, not a generic 007. Without a Bond, I think interest will tank.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  63. jaytex969

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    How is this pipe related?

    I like pie.

    You spelled pipe wrong, pappymac...

    Posted 1 month ago #
  64. alaskanpiper

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    It will be interesting to see who's sentiments end up being correct, or at least closest on this thread. I'll watch it, that's for sure. Probably not in a theater though. I live 45 minutes from the closest one, so by the time my wife and I drive there it will be on one streaming service or another.

    Plus theaters don't pause for diaper changes

    Posted 1 month ago #
  65. jaytex969

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    Plus theaters don't pause for diaper changes

    You should eat less before heading to the theater...

    Posted 1 month ago #
  66. alaskanpiper

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    You should eat less before heading to the theater...

    Hahaha, I should eat less in general! But my 2 month old daughter, unfortunately, has no choice. My wife spends all day blasting milk into her face and I spend all day cleaning it up after she blasts it out the other end. The circle of life. How beautiful.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  67. warren

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    I believe Bonds were, historically, cast with the feminine audience upper most in the minds of the producers. Now they are going for a different demographic. This, should sink the value of the franchise as the new target audience is pretty damned small. Time will tell.

    A man without a shillelagh is a man without an expedient.
    Posted 1 month ago #
  68. prairiedruid

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    According to the script details that have come to light James Bond has retired and is recalled back to service. With his retirement his number was assigned to a new agent played by Lashana Lynch. Don't know why so many people are going off the deep end on this. The movies have gone far beyond what Ian Fleming wrote. Good lord the crap they filmed for The Spy Who Loved Me is vomit inducing. The book is completely different and far far better.

    We're talking and arguing about fictional characters; like how a mermaid can't be black.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  69. chasingembers

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    like how a mermaid can't be black.

    That controversy centers around a remake not adhering to the source material.

    Posted 1 month ago #
  70. josephcross

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    I think Disney should go all out and do the Hans Christian Anderson version.

    Posted 1 month ago #

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