Machine made or hand made pipe?

mawnansmiff · May 28, 2016

Hello one and all. Whilst browsing some older posts I came across a chap wanting to replace an 'Abbey' pipe he had lost some time ago. Having not heard the name I looked them up and found several interesting looking pipes, and one in particular reminded me of a no name pipe I bought some months ago. The similarities were huge but of course with no stampings other than 'Export' and 'Made In England' I will likely never know if it is indeed an Abbey pipe.
However whilst looking at my pipe I wondered if it was possible that a machine could have produced such a thing of beauty that has so many graceful curves. I know very little of pipe making but have read about so called 'frazing/fraising' machines that seem to be able to replicate very complex shapes.
So I thought I would ask the experts....is this a machine made of hand made pipe? My other question is why on earth would someone make such a pipe that though it has a couple of minor pits (but no fills) has such gorgeous grain patterns yet not go to the trouble of stamping it with the maker's mark?
The pipe is a smidgen over 14 cm long and quite a hefty lump of briar.

Regards,
Jay.

pipestud · May 28, 2016

Jay, I'm no expert and can't answer your first question with authority. As to the second question; many times makers (like Savinelli), will have hand made higher grade lines of pipes, and rather than chunk the ones that develop flaws during the process of making the pipes, they will sell them as seconds and not put their brand name on the pipes. That is why you will come across some very nice looking hand made pipes with no brand name.

pipestud · May 28, 2016

Given its distribution and a lot of other factors, a manufacturer can sell so many clean pipes. Flooding the market with more than it can absorb would work to reduce the price level it could maintain, so excess production gets sold off unmarked as retailer-branded pipes rather than impair cash flow by sitting on them. - billkay

I might... might, buy that story if we were talking about lower end machine made pipes, but I've never heard of that being employed as a marketing strategy for higher end pieces. It makes no sense for more reasons than I care to type, LOL! But, I think one of the OPs two questions was "why make such a pipe and not stamp it." I don't think to increase their cash flow is the right answer. Just a guess. :wink:

agnosticpipe · May 28, 2016

Jay, I don't know how much help this will be, but I have a pipe made by BPL of Dublin Ireland that is stamped "Abbey". It's just a plain billiard, but a nice pipe. I almost sold it a couple of months ago, but decided to keep it. I have seen Abbey stamped pipes by BPL before, but I'm not sure that's what your friend had.

mso489 · May 28, 2016

Are Iwan Ries house pipes now made by Savinelli? I've been trying to figure out the source. Back when they were still selling Bentons as their house pipes, I ordered what was clearly not a Benton, but was shown with their house pipes. It was stamped on the stem "Italy," but I was/am uncertain. Was this one of the early Sav's sold as house pipes. It arrived without even an Iwan Ries stamp! And it is not a Sav shape, a big robust Group 6 bent billiard with a gloss finish. It would rise in my esteem if it is a Sav (for some reason) but I just don't know. Can I pretty much assume that was the source? It is not offered with the current IR house pipes.
The pipe in the original post looks to me like a handmade pipe. It has the oddities and qualities of a handmade, but I'll leave the judgement to the carvers and pipe historians here who know a world more about pipes.

pipestud · May 28, 2016

Okey dokey, must be true because I've now read it on the Internet. :wink:
Pipestud

deathmetal · May 28, 2016

Human-designed, machine-made works for me.
Just like with nuclear weapons!

mawnansmiff · May 29, 2016

Interesting info being posted, thanks folks. I think Pipestud pretty much has it, simple though his answer was it really does make sense. But, all being said, what about where pipes have no flaws on them at all? I have more than several pipes which display stunning grain as per above but have no pits or any other kind of flaw that I can see and they are great smokers but still have no maker's mark, some no markings whatsoever and afore anyone asks, no they were not buffed off, they were never there in the first place. Perhaps this is where Bill's theory kicks in?
Orley, the Abbey brand referred to in the old post I mentioned was a low output manufacturer from Ashton-Under_Lyne in Lancashire, below hopefully is a link to the Pipedia page for the brand. If the link works take a look at some of the pipes and compare with what I posted above.
https://pipedia.org/wiki/Abbey_Pipes
Thanks again chaps.
Regards,
Jay in a very sunny Cornwall

mawnansmiff · May 29, 2016

As an example of a splendidly looking pipe yet with no name (just a '23') to identify its maker see below...

...and this one has no pits, fills nor anything to suggest it might be a 'second', in fact it (to me at least) screams 'quality pipe'. It is simply perfect in every way and yes it smokes perfectly too!
I know that if I had made such a pipe I would most certainly want my name upon it.
Regards,
Jay.

mawnansmiff · May 29, 2016

Bill, I too considered Orlik as a possible maker for the above pipe based solely on the brass ring inset on the stem. However several makers too used that to mark/adorn their pipes. Besides, if Orlik did indeed make the pipe then why not mark it as such?
What "Orley pipes" in what link are you referring to?
Got me puzzled now old chum :|
Regards,
Jay.

jensen · May 29, 2016

This is undoubtly an Orlik shape 23 - I have several from the 60 and 70ties so I know how they look.

Years back a BBB bowl had its own character, a GBD bowl also etc.This one has the Orlik character.
I think this one was going to be an Orlik Gold grade and as it is many years since it was made no one are able to tell why it is not stamped.

mawnansmiff · May 29, 2016

Bill, read it again. I was replying to forum member Orley you plonker :crazy:
Jenson, interesting is that as the pipe came with another but I think that was a Lovat.
Regards,
Jay.

georged · May 29, 2016

Aaaaaaaaaaand... we're off yet again.
After ten solid years of witnessing this shit over and over again, I'm truly and royally sick of it.
Mods, it's going to be one person after another jumping off this ship and not looking back. Really. The world champion "death by a thousand cuts" forum killer has arrived, and has already notched a significant body count.
I really hope you guys don't let this place die.

mawnansmiff · May 29, 2016

Not sure what is going on here so am laying low until I find out.
Apologies if I have broken any rules or upset anyone.
Regards,
Jay.

georged · May 29, 2016

Not sure what is going on here so am laying low until I find out.
Apologies if I have broken any rules or upset anyone.
Regards,
Jay.

No worries. You did nothing wrong and are not involved in any way. My apologies for assuming everyone knew the situation I was referring to.
No need to go into it for anyone who isn't aware, for that matter---the mods seem to be taking care of things.

pipestud · May 29, 2016

Yes Jay, no worries about anything you posted. georged is referring to a member who has 1,500 posts in 3 months of being a member (500 posts a month), most of which have nothing to do with the price of bread (a metaphor) :wink:
Pipestud

misterlowercase · May 29, 2016

Not sure what is going on here so am laying low until I find out.
Apologies if I have broken any rules or upset anyone.
Regards,
Jay.

No need to lay low mate, you've been a great member here and have been contributing very interesting stuff.
No worries.
No rules broken,

in fact, I award you bonus points for using the word "plonker" so well and accurately,

your response was spot on the odd duck.
Your vision is 20/20.
Carry on as usual and keep sharing all those cool pipes you are finding,

we love seeing them!
Cheers!

: puffy

:

mawnansmiff · May 30, 2016

Phew, I'm in the clear then : puffy

:
Thanks folks for letting me know I haven't soured my patch, was getting a little worried for a moment.
So far my personal experiences of this forum have all been positive, friendly folks & useful advice/information, long may it be so.
Regards,
Jay.

mawnansmiff · May 30, 2016

Jensen, thanks to your ID of my Orlik 23 I have since been able to sort out three other pipes without name stamps as being made by Orlik. One is a 116 bent billiard with 'gold' band & brass ring on the stem, another is a 37 Lovat with 'gold' band but no brass ring on the stem and another 37 Lovat (unsmoked!) with no 'gold' band or brass ring on the stem. This latter pipe has a couple of minor fills and has a pretty hideous red stain with what looks like a pre-carbonized bowl.
I wonder, can you tell me anything of the 'Gold Grade' series that you mentioned? What sort of years are we talking about?
Regards,
Jay.

jensen · May 30, 2016

An Orlik Gold was 190 dkr in 1980 and 540 in 1984 ( De luxe smooth 125 in 1980 360 in 1984)

Machine made or hand made pipe?

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